This doesn't exactly match Conchita's description either. "Stoned by his playmates" is what she said. But these stories are probably inaccurate legend anyway. It doesn't really fit when the feast day in August is in conflict with the timing she gave (though I am not sure exactly when the March-April-May prophecy came to being...). She also said the name was difficult to pronounce. Nothing really difficult about Tarcisius.
Jon said - It doesn't really fit when the feast day in August is in conflict with the timing she gave (though I am not sure exactly when the March-April-May prophecy came to being...). She also said the name was difficult to pronounce. Nothing really difficult about Tarcisius.Yes Jon, the writer was aware of the August difficulty, If you read the downloadable book extract above he says so but offers a possible explanation for the discrepancy. As to the difficulty of pronunciation, none of the other suggestions seem particularly difficult either. The fact is we don't know, if we did we would have information that is supposed to be a secret anyway. Baffling!
Yeah. I read the explanation. the church could have gotten the date of death wrong, possibly. Does anyone know when the visionaries became so certain of some of these things? Such as the March-April-May miracle time, that seems to have been narrowed to April these days? I admit I didn't read every page top to bottom, but in reading that book, it didn't seem apparent that the timing of the miracle was ever conveyed in any of the apparitions that included messages for the public, or messages that Conchita wrote down the next day for the public. The elaborartions on some of these specifics (like the martyr, or timing and date limitations of the warning & miracle) must have come from private locutions if they weren't spoken by Mary or Michael in actual apparitions. If that is the case, it opens the door to a wider approach to interpretation of those particular prophecies.
My copy of the book 'Star on the Mountain' Page 106 states that Conchita said, in answer to a question from a group of US pilgrims, that "there would be but TWO more Popes after HH Pope Paul VI". This book was recommended by Joey Lomangino (and so presumably regarded, by him, as reliable) at a talk given by him that I attended in 1977 and purchased at that time. I have not checked whether or not this section of the book is included in the shorter, downloadable version now available at http://www.garabandal.us/pdfs/dwld_star_mt.PDF. I should be happy to scan and print the page in case of any doubt.
I do not doubt that what you say is stated on p106 of Star on the Mountain is what is stated. For your information my 'bible' for Garabandal is She Went in Haste to the Mountain. This book agrees with 'your book' with respect to the 'popes prophesy'. This very detailed book is free to be downloaded as a number of pdf files at St Joseph publications. http://www.stjosephpublications.com/books_page.htm
According to the book you referenced she said "After his Holiness Paul VI, there will be only two more popes until the end of the present period, which is not the end of the world." What that should mean to us is that with the death of John Paul II, we have now entered a different period. Maybe the period of the fulfillment of the Garabandal prophecies as the battle against evil reaches its peak, and the Immaculate Heart Triumphs? It would mean that within the reign of Pope Benedict XVI, these things would takes place, if so. I know you have chosen not to believe St. Malachy's prophecies as genuine (I haven't made any acent of faith in them either, but I am open to discerning, because if a forgery, when was it done, and why). But it is probably worth paying attention, because the original (as far as originals go) had only 111 popes, not 112. Benedict XVI is 111. ...JPII may very well have been the "restrainer of the antichrist", making straight the way of the Lord, in the spirit of Elijah, and John the Baptist.....(maybe one of 2 witnesses for the end time) ...If so, then who is Benedict...
The actual quote is "... but this does not signify that the world will end with these two Popes." Which is slightly different. I and, everyone else I knew who was aware of this statement when Paul VI was still reigning, took this literally, that is that Conchita was saying that there will only be two more Popes after Pope Paul. Because of the short reign of Pope John Paul I, some people have decided that he can be ignored and that the Prophecy still holds, that is their privilege and there is little to be gained from arguing the point. However, if there is another valid Papal election, I do feel that it would be necessary to do some serious mental gymnastics to retain faith in Conchita's statement as a prophecy. I might also add that mention has been made in this thread about Padre Pio seeing the miracle before he died and that this fact was known to his confreres in religion. Padre Agostino, a close friend of Padre Pio's used to stay with a neighbour of mine whenever he visited the UK to give talks about the Saint after his death. Padre Agostino used to stay up very late chatting about his time with the Saint and various miraculous events and humorous situations and no mention was ever made of him witnessing the Miracle nor indeed of Garabandal at all. Now, I don't disbelieve in Garabandal but I do have some reservations and feel that those who strongly support it sometimes overstate a genuine case for belief and so do it potential damage. We have to be realistic about this and all other such claims until approved. We have to seek the truth (among a mass of sometimes conflicting information) even if we find the results uncomfortable. I certainly believe that an illumination is coming together with a miracle and, very probably, a punishment but we do not NEED to believe in any unapproved apparitions in order to believe this, there is ample evidence from Church approved sources to do so.
I think most try to use the same criteria in discernment. Even Fatima took 13 years to approve, and fruits were part of the process. I also think most who believe have an intuitive sense that Garabandal is related to Fatima, and is the timely release of 3rd secret information for the benefit of the church, since it is apparent that revelations about evil in the heirarchy were not going to be propogated by the very ones being referred to in 1960. Reading the book you referenced shed even more light on that very issue. When the authors desrcribed the reactions of the faithful and the clergy following the June 18 Michael the Archangel apparition and public message. It was the very topic of "cardinals and bishops", etc., and it was very hard to swallow for them. Mary is even quoted on her last apparition to Conchita, as having chosen Michael to be the messenger of this message because of the sorrow it brought her. I don't think most who believe in the genuine nature of Garabandal are seeking anything new. Because they know true apparitions never bring new teachings on our faith, but I think they have the same intuitive sense that the messages were meant to mark a turning point toward the decisive battle, and were meant to communicate the urgency for our conversion during this time. Also, as Aviso so often points out, I think most have an intuitive sense as well, about the many, many private revelations that erupted between 1965 and now, (many of which have been condemned), and that it is apparent many of these false apparitions attached themselves to Garabandal by including the same prophecies, but then dragged them into the mud by association after uttering false doctrines. ...Almost as if deliberate proclaimation of falsehoods were made once a following was gathered, to cause confusion and discrediting of Garabandal. Hence, much longer than 13 years needed to approve. I suppose the spectacular nature of the future prophecies also plays a part (in waiting), but upon reading the book previously mentioned, it seems some specific hearts in the church were hardened in advance, and may have sought to suppress, much like the 3rd secret. The point is: If Garabandal is genuine, and people fail to respond to the urgency of the messages, then many souls who could have been better prepared, will not be prepared, because they rationalize their sinful habits in a dangerous game of chicken with God and His Mercy, and subconciously procrastinate their conversion because they are lulled into a confidence that they have many years to examine their consciences and turn away from sin, toward Divine Mercy...
Padre Pio did see the miracle before he died, in a vision. I believe Joey will be alive and the miracle will be the first thing he sees in Garabandal.
I have absolutely no problem with you believing that. I personally would want some firm evidence of the former claim, which does not seem to be available. We have ample evidence that the events that the Garabandal visionaries foretell are true to a large extent, from other, and approved sources. So we do not NEED to believe in any unapproved apparitions. THAT ALONE is my point and I have not read anything that dissuades me from that viewpoint. We have Fatima, we have Akita, we have the writings of the Church Fathers, numerous apparitions and locutions from approved sources about our day that predate recent unapproved apparitions, for one example (among dozens) we have the prophecies given by Our Lady of Good Success. We have the prophetic voice of our dear Pope Benedict who has said plainly that the Church will be much smaller and purer in the near future. If anyone doesn't know that we are in trouble then they really aren't listening to any of these easily available and approved sources. You and I are on the same side, we do not need to dispute the approved information, because it is approved, but no-one can say with certainty that the unapproved is indisputably true until the Church has investigated and speaks. If anyone says that any such apparition is indisputably true then not only are they are in serious error, they are much more seriously in grave spiritual peril, even if the future verdict falls in their favour.
Without trying to defend specific statements, made explicitly or implicitly by the seers, I believe in Garabandal, because Padre Pio stated, "yes Joey Mary is apprearing in Garabandal". He surely knew, as perhaps the greatest mystic the Church has ever had. Also, I have seen video's of the seers running backwards up a rocky hill faster than anyone could do so forward. Now you could say they did so because they were possessed, but the fruits of their apparitions were holy and good. Many other things they did were paranormal. Joey's promise of seeing the Miracle will be the icing on the cake, but when that day comes, there will be no more doubt. Keep in mind, Satan will cause as much confusion on the apparitions as possible. This he has done in all Marian apparitions.
I think with Marian Apparition Sites the devil appears to have been given special permision by God to oppose them and try the visionaries. He come to bite Mary's Heel so to speak as we are told in Genesis. Genesis 3:15 New International Version (NIV) 15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring[a] and hers; he will crush[b] your head, and you will strike his heel.” THis Satanic opposition comes not only against the site itself but against the visionary(s) themselves. Incredibly enough the main dragon's teeth are raised against Mary, by the devil from within the Church itself. In this he suceeds to a greater or lesser degree as circumstances dictate. In the case of Garababndal he has had up to the present a fair degree of sucess though at present he seems to be getting beat back. However you see his oily black fingers all over the Garabandal story. He knocked himself out trying to destroy these messages.
An extract from Locutions to the World site dated Jan 1 2012. I have no idea how much credence to place in this but I offer it for your consideration: Now I will come to the central point so there will be no mistake. The Cardinals will meet to elect a pope but an extraordinary intervention of God will occur that will alert the whole world to the special nature of this office. They will seek to discern this intervention, to grasp what is the will of God, but everything will not be clear at first. Some, however, will speak in divine wisdom and the search will begin to find the one whom God wants to raise up. He will not come forward at first, even though he knows that he is chosen by God. He will wait until the discussion is concluded and the Cardinals are settled. Then new manifestations will occur which will signal clearly the one whom the heavenly Father wants as his Pope. This will be a complete surprise to the world and to the Church but not to the one upon whom the mantle falls. This is my chosen son, the one whom I have picked. I want all of this to happen in a startling manner so the world and the Church know that this one was chosen by heaven, by God and not by men. He will be prepared because I will have prepared him. He will be the pope of Fatima and bring to fruition all of the gifts of Fatima, just in time to prepare the Church and the world for the Satanic onslaught. I think that it is safe to say now that Conchita's statement regarding the number of future Popes is not a prophecy which, to my mind puts the whole of Garabandal in serious question.
In view of the forthcoming Papal election and the very specific prophecies made about it by the alleged locutionary at www.locutions.org, it is clear that we will know, WITHIN WEEKS, whether or not these locutions are true or not. There aren't many claims that we can say that about. Wait and see!
Fascinating. I love this stuff. Thank you for bringing it again to our attention. As you say, Steve, its handy when these things can be tested so quickly by events.
Thank you Jon for correcting me for not drawing my quotations from a goosd Catholic Bible. Ron COnte corrected me for the same thing. I rush too much!
Jan 17th, 2013 (www.locutions.org) - We will know very soon one way or the other Jesus He will be the “game changer” because he will walk on the scene when all seems hopeless, when people will be crying out, “Where is God in all this darkness?” The lights will dim and then go out but only so my action will be clearly seen by all. There he will be, the pope of the third millennium. He will carry a new light, a light that he already possesses as a treasure kept in the greatest hiddenness. He will arise by the most surprising way. Again, so there will be no mistake, this pope will not be chosen by men but by the clearest and most visible signs from heaven. All will see that the Father has brought this about. Once he assumes the papal throne, my plan will begin to unfold, step by step. Little by little, the powers of darkness will be rolled back. Then, when Satan can no longer accept his defeats he will make the great mistake. Just as he erred in nailing me to the cross, so he will bring about this pope’s death, a true martyrdom, that will shake heaven and earth (as did my death). At that point, the true reign of my mother as the Woman Clothed With the Sun will begin. Hers will not be an immediate victory. However, all of her children will take heart and know that the victory will be theirs as they take up the sword of the Spirit. Mary I have held back these revelations until now but they can no longer be hidden. The words must be said and duly recorded. They are my words also and I would like to speak. I have chosen this son from among many. He is the child of my choice and I have guided him since childhood. I gave him devout Catholic parents and a devout home. As a child, he walked with me, not even understanding the special graces I was placing in his heart. His parents taught him a deep love for the rosary and even opened up to him the beginnings of devotion. You can see that he was always mine. Always I led and protected him, and he always cherished a special devotion to me. He was always marked by my seal. However, all that was contained in these seeds of devotion were hidden to him. He always saw himself as one of many, and always tried to consider himself the least of all. Only as these years have gone by, has he realized who he was and what I had called him to be. Even now, he would gladly surrender these gifts to others, but I have not chosen another. He is well aware of that and knows that his ascending to the papacy in inevitable. Yet, he will make no move to promote himself and he will speak to no one about the revelations he has received. All is hidden in his heart, like treasures deeply buried. It is not for him to open these treasures or to decide the time and the circumstances. All remains in my hands. He remains in my hands and I will never let him go. When he is revealed to the world, all will see that these words are true. There is nothing more to be said at this time. Later, I will speak again as the time grows closer and those who would doubt will need yet another sign.
I saw this comment on another website. "Conchita said the miracle will coincide with a rare church event. I know the warning has not happened but Conchita said the time between the Warning and Miracle would be within a year of each other not one year apart - these events could be 2 days apart for all we know. Since a popes resignation has not happened in 600 years, I would if this is tied into it." Interesting take!
