Cardinal Burke on the State of the Church

HeavenlyHosts · Aug 22, 2019

I think you are right about incurring automatic excommunication to suggest otherwise about the reigning Pontiff.

padraig · Aug 22, 2019

HeavenlyHosts said: ↑

I think you are right about incurring automatic excommunication to suggest otherwise about the reigning Pontiff.
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Yes it's very,very serious indeed.

AED · Aug 22, 2019

padraig said: ↑

I am so glad I am not a Bishop or Cardinal at this present time; they have to answer to God for what they do or do not do at this present time. All we are asked to do is pray really. How hard is that?
A Bishop has to be something of a Roaring Lion to get things done, the way things are. I heard last night my won Bishop has spent 3.5 million pounds (that about 4.25 mill US Dollars ) refurbishing his mansion , just up the road from where I live. So I suppose he'll not be doing too much roaring any time soon as he'll be soaking in his new Jacuzzi.
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That is sad Padraig but unfortunately not uncommon.

padraig · Aug 22, 2019

AED said: ↑

That is sad Padraig but unfortunately not uncommon.
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I wonder why someone somewhere never made it uncommon.? You would think it would be one of the first things one a decent Pope's To Do list. As opposed to Global Warming and putting in the fix for Islamic Migrants.

If we know about the total corruption among the Cardinals and Bishops you may be sure he does too.

Carol55 · Sep 4, 2019

Dolours said: ↑

Yes, Dr. Moynihan comes across as genuine and not easily influenced by others. I rate him a lot higher than Christopher Altieri.

Evidently, Archbishop Vigano trusts Dr. Moynihan and there seems to be mutual respect there. Moynihan's book about their conversations should be worth reading.

Reams have been written about the scandals with all sorts of solutions being proposed.

Here's some of the conversation between Dr. Moynihan and Apb. Vigano:

“Some aspects of how to face this crisis have been explored by various bishops’ conferences, and at various meetings like the one at the Vatican in February, but the deep spiritual roots seem not to have been touched.

“Something is still missing.

“And that is what I find in this book.”

“And what is that?” I asked.

Vigano picks up the book to find a certain passage.

“The monk author,” Vigano replied, “suggesting that the words he writes are the very words of Jesus to him during his time of prayer, says to us:

“‘The solution to the hardships and trials of priests, the answer to the problems that beset so many of them, causing them to fall into patterns of sin, is the friendship that I offer them.

“‘The Holy Spirit is poured out on every priest on the day of his ordination, and in that outpouring is given a marvelous capacity to live in My friendship and in the intimacy of My most Holy Mother.’ (p. 17)

“But then,” Vigano continued, “the author adds:

“‘So few of My priests accept this gift and use this capacity for holiness that I bestow upon them.’

“And then the author writes, speaking now in the words of the Blessed Mother, Mary:

“‘I am for all my priest sons the Gate of Heaven.

“‘If any priest would ascend, even in this earthly life, into the glory of the heavenly liturgy ceaselessly celebrated by my Son before the Father’s Face, he need only approach me.

“‘I will open the way into the mysteries of heaven for him.

“‘I will teach him the reverence, the silence, the profound adoration that befits one called to serve at the altars of my Son and in His place.'” (p. 17)

Apb. Vigano goes on to talk about us all needing to cleanse ourselves from evil by growing closer to Jesus.

Many of us are expecting a chastisement from Heaven and wondering why it hasn't happened yet. Dr. Moynihan asks the Archbishop whether he is saying that God is about to chastise the Church as Niniveh was threatened with destruction or whether he believes we still have a chance of renewal through pray and spirituality. Archbishop Vigano's response:

“The two possibilities you offer are not mutually exclusive,” the archbishop said. “There may be both a chastisement, which will shake and diminish the Church, and also a reform and renewal of the Church, making her more resplendent in holiness. Both are possible. The Lord is not denying grace of conversion to anyone. Furthermore, it is really the deep desire of His heart, to ask for conversion and to have us accept His love for us.”

Read the conversation here: https://insidethevatican.com/news/newsflash/letter-46-2019-the-nineveh-code/

My impression of Apb. Vigano is that he acknowledges that much has gone wrong in the governance of the Church; that many mistakes were made; and that as a well connected member of the hierarchy he has to take his share of responsibility for what went wrong but that he believes it's time for everyone to 'fess up and stop sweeping the dirt under the rug. That he gets a few things wrong or overstates some events while understating others doesn't make him a liar and it doesn't disprove his entire testimony. Claims that he is making it all up out of revenge for Pope Francis are simply ludicrous and cause me to question the motives, intelligence or, indeed, integrity of people making that allegation.
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Dolours, This is a great post, thank you. (And thank you Lynne also.)

I am deliberately bumping this because of a discussion about Vigano on another thread.

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Cardinal Burke on the State of the Church

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