Why the Traditional Latin Mass and not the Novus Ordo Mass

Discussion in 'The Sacraments' started by SgCatholic, Nov 29, 2019.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Proud2bRC Staff Member

  2. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

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  3. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I have misgivings about the Masses of the SSPX. The priests are not incardinated in any diocese. Right now that means that their Masses are illegal.
    As Mario said, " I have a reservation or two against the Society." I personally don't think going there is a panacea for what is wrong in the Barque of Peter.
    This is not to discredit or attack anyone, or to belittle them.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  4. AidanK

    AidanK A great sinner

    I recently spoke to my SSPX priest about the issue of obedience. His answer was that the SSPX steps in where bishops are disobedient by not providing a traditional Latin Mass thereby failing to provide for the people who desire the Traditional Latin Mass
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  5. AidanK

    AidanK A great sinner

    Yet so many prelates and faithful around the world support or are sympathetic to the work of the SSPX
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  6. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    I think I understand your misgivings. ;) There can be no mistaking that the SSPX has been a refuge for many Catholics who felt they had nowhere to turn. Obviously in light of the recent events but especially in raising a family in the faith one was raised in themselves. I think that the SSPX and the FSSP will be instrumental in the times to come. Just my own personal opinion but I don't think that the SSPX will remain to be seen at an impasse. The times we are in have been but are becoming so obviously dire that we will either stand together or fall divided.
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  7. Frodo

    Frodo Archangels

    That's the whole thing - they are Catholic, not schismatic.

    They are in the Barque of Peter.

    Father Z's thoughts sum it up well, you can read them here:


    "When it comes to critics of the SSPX, clerical and lay, it see ms to me that a little more charity, thoughtfulness and prudence might be adopted. There is a rigidity running through some conservative or tradition-leaning Catholics which reminds me a little of the attitude of the Pharisees. Libs remind me of Pharisees all the time, by the way.

    Within the very heart of how the Church applies and interprets her laws there is a beautiful and gentle principle the spirit of which we can learn from when talking about the SSPX: odiosa restringi et favores convenit ampliari, or else odiosa sunt restringenda et favoribilia amplianda/ampliantur. That is to say, laws that place burdens or restrictions on people must be interpreted strictly so that they don’t put onto people what the laws don’t say. On the other hand, laws which grant favors or freedoms to people should be interpreted as generously as possible so that people can enjoy favors and freedoms. Be narrow and picky with laws that restrict and wide and generous with laws that grant things.

    The SSPX is an association of the faithful. They don’t yet have canonical recognition. But they could and, I think, will. Until then they are still a real thing in the Church. Their sacraments are valid. The priests can receive faculties, so they are not suspended. Their bishop members are not excommunicated. They have shared faith, sacraments and governance, which is borne out everyday in practice by their recourse to tribunals, reference to the decrees of the Penitentieria, etc. They aren’t a separate Church. They aren’t heretics. They aren’t a schism. You can satisfy your Mass attendance obligations at their chapels. You can be validly absolved by them. They can witness your marriages."
    AED, Suzanne, SgCatholic and 3 others like this.
  8. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Catholic filmmakers to create ‘stunning’ documentary on richness, beauty of Traditional Mass
    'The documentary aims to show that the beauty of our timeless traditional liturgy will begin to restore the Church.'
    By Clare Marie Merkowsky

    Mass of the Ages
    PETITION: Support priest who was suspended for calling out the Black Lives Matter organization! Sign the petition here.

    OAKWOOD, Ohio, July 12, 2020, (LifeSiteNews) – A group of filmmakers is working to create a “stunning” documentary about the Traditional Latin Mass that will show the “beauty of our timeless traditional liturgy” with the hope that such a film will help “begin to restore the Church.”

    The film, called “Mass of the Ages,” will focus on the beauty and meaning of the Latin Mass as well as its role in bringing people back to Catholicism (watch trailer here).

    In a press release on June 16, the group of Catholic filmmakers and designers stated that the “aim (of the documentary) is to show that the loss of faith the Church has experienced in the last half century will only be repaired once there is a return to Christ and His real presence in the Eucharist, and that the Traditional Latin Mass is where we are to receive Him and worship Him with the utmost solemnity and adoration.”

    Only one-quarter of Catholics go to Mass, while only one-third of Catholics believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.

    “Since there’s a massive loss of Catholic faith, we need to investigate Catholic worship,” the group stated.

    “We believe what the Church teaches: Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi: loosely translated, as we pray, so we believe,” Cameron O’Hearn, director of the documentary, told LifeSiteNews.

    “We will deal honestly and carefully with the implementation of Vatican II,” he continued, “as well as show the beauty of the Mass of the Ages—the Traditional Latin Mass—which has stood the test of time, has powered the evangelization of the world, and created saints.”

    The documentary will include stories from authentic Traditional Catholics “to investigate the power of the old Mass and the profound effect it has on our spiritual lives.” They are also hoping to interview prominent Catholics including Cardinal Raymond Burke, Dr. Peter Kwasniewski, Christian Smith, Dr. Taylor Marshall, and Jennifer Donelson.

    O'Hearn is using Kickstarter to raise $77,700 USD to begin production. And he is close to raising the full amount. The “all or nothing” goal must be reached by July 23 or the campaign loses everything. If the goal is reached, production will begin in the Fall and wrap up by Christmas 2021.

    The documentary will discuss the benefits of the Latin language, God speaking in silence, music lifting the soul, and architecture enriching worship. The Traditional Mass will be filmed to show its “eternal beauty.”

    The documentary will not only appeal to Traditional Catholics, O’Hearn explained, but also will speak to the “typical Novus Ordo Catholic who make up the majority of the Church.”

    In addition to helping Catholics “see the connection between worship and belief and to inspire them to attend the Traditional Latin Mass,” the film producers hope to inspire priests to learn to offer the Traditional Latin Mass.

    The film will show the distinctive parts of the Traditional Latin Mass and explain their theological importance. The producers hope to show that the Traditional Latin Mass is a “solid foundation of Catholic faith in a turbulent, anti-religious time.”

    The project is already underway with one story and two expert interviews filmed, in addition to Mass footage. The producers hope to add two more traditional Catholic stories, 3-5 more expert interviews, offer clear explanations of complex ideas, capture different types of Traditional Masses, and compose an original score.

    To find out more about the project and to donate to it, go here.

    July 15, 2020 update: O'Hearn has raised $77,700 USD and can begin production. He also has released 'stretch goals' that will allow the Catholic filmmakers to translate the film into 12 languages, feature ICKSP and FSSP parishes across the country, reach hundreds of thousands of Catholics online, and to film at traditional communities in other countries. Production will begin in the Fall and wrap up by Christmas 2021.

    (Emphasis in red is mine - SgC)
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  9. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Why are pro-lifers concerned about Communion in the hand?
    To be fully pro-life means being pro-eternal-life. After all, what sense does it make to save the body if we lose the soul?
    Tue Jul 14, 2020 - 4:03 pm EST

    July 14, 2020 (LifeSiteNews) – On Thursday, July 16, some of the most well-known pro-life heroes from all over the world will proclaim that out of love and reverence due to Our Lord they would never receive Holy Communion in the hand.

    That message will be apart of the, “Love and reverence to Our Lord: Let’s always receive Holy Communion on the tongueonline conference, which is set to begin at 12:00 p.m. noon EST and run until 2:30 p.m. EST on Thursday, July 16, 2020. You can watch the conference on LifeSite’s YouTube channel and on the LifeSiteNews Catholic Facebook page for free. To visit the LifeSite YouTube channel, click here. For more information about the conference, click here.

    Some of the world’s most famous converts to Catholicism will explain why they will never receive Communion in the hand. Those voices who you will hear from include Abby Johnson, the head of the March for Life in Italy, the founder of the March for Life in New Zealand, the President of the largest pro-life group in Canada, the President of the organization best known for pro-life lobbying at the United Nations, the CEO of the oldest pro-life group in all the world based in the UK and the daughter of a proclaimed saint in the Catholic Church who’s mother was proclaimed a saint for giving up her life so that her unborn child could live.

    Have you ever wondered why pro-life advocates are making such a big deal about receiving Holy Communion on the tongue kneeling and not receiving Holy Communion on the hand? Doesn’t that seem strange? Why would they be doing that? Why would they risk the credibility they have to push for something so seemingly obscure? I’m going to tell you why so many of them are ready to sacrifice themselves, and their reputations for this.

    Pro-life activists all over the world spend their lives defending the reality of hidden life, of the child hidden in the womb of his or her mother. That life is not recognized, not valued, by most of society. Many fail to recognize the inestimable value of the child in the womb precisely because these children are not seen, the truth of their lives, even though they are there and very much-alive is concealed in the wombs of their mothers.

    In very much the same way Jesus, truly present in the Blessed Sacrament, is not seen and thus not recognized for Who He truly is in the Sacred Host. Our Lord and God conceals Himself under the appearance of a wafer of bread, and yet it is He, the Creator of the Universe, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords-in-the-flesh Whom we are called to receive in Holy Communion.

    The same Savior Who sacrificed Himself in the terrible passion and crucifixion to save you and me from eternal damnation is right there before us in Holy Communion. If we truly recognized Him how could we fail to show Him the reverence He is due? If we bow before Princes and Kings of this world, if we salute the powerful and make acts of self-effacing love towards those on earth to whom we are most devoted, how can we not be on our knees before Almighty God and Our Greatest Love compared to Whom we are to disdain all earthly loves?

    Now what I’m about to say may be very controversial but it’s a thought that came to me while praying and meditating about this subject. It was that kind of inspiration that makes you feel you have to share it even though it seems very socially awkward and you worry about it being offensive to some.

    It is relates the pro-life struggle directly to Communion in the Hand. Of course the primary reason for not receiving Holy Communion in the hand is the awe and reverence due Our Lord and the need to have the consecrated hands of the priests and ordinary ministers of Holy Communion handle Our Lord in the Eucharist with consecrated hands. However, from the most ancient times of the Church, the Fathers spoke of the need to guard the fragments of the Eucharist from being lost.

    The most well known quote used to promote Communion in the hand is attributed to St. Cyril of Alexandria in the 300s. However the quote of his used is most often taken out of context. While he did speak of receiving Communion in the hand, his main emphasis was to warn against losing the fragments.

    Here is what he said in full:

    Approaching therefore, do not come forward with the palms of the hands outstretched nor with the fingers apart, but making the left [hand] a throne for the right since this hand is about to receive the King. Making the palm hollow, receive the Body of Christ, adding “Amen”. Then, carefully sanctifying the eyes by touching them with the holy Body, partake of it, ensuring that you do not mislay any of it.

    Be careful that you do not lose anything of the Body of the Lord. If you let fall anything, you must think of it as though you cut off one of the members of your own body. Tell me, I beg you, if someone gave you kernels of gold, would you not guard them with the greatest care and diligence, intent on not losing anything? Should you not exercise even greater care and vigilance, so that not even a crumb of the Lord’s Body could fall to the ground, for It is far more precious than gold or jewels?


  10. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    So where does this tie in to the pro-life movement?

    One of the things that has been most distressing over the last 50 years has been the deception that has gone on in the medical field concealing the grim realities of abortion. One of the biggest deceptions was over the abortifacient nature of the birth control pill. For decades women were unaware that the birth control pill could cause abortions, for decades women were inadvertently aborting their children and had no clue about it.

    They were told by doctors that the pill was healthy, even good for their ability to have children when they wanted them. And yet the grim reality was that the pill caused the lining of the uterus to be inhospitable to life such that with breakthrough ovulations resulting in conception of a new life, that newly conceived child could not implant in the uterine wall.

    It struck me that this is very very similar to what we’ve experienced in the Church for the last 50 years, where with Communion in the Hand our bishops and priests for the most part never told us of the danger of the fragments falling to the floor. Never explained the reality of Jesus being present in those small fragments as He is in the full Sacred Host.

    We have for 50 years been counselled to receive Our Lord in such a way that had us participate inadvertently in the trampling of Our Lord with our feet at Mass. We were told communion in the hand was a better way to receive, a more dignified way, a superior way for mature Christians. And now we have some bishops and priests suggesting, despite contrary opinion from some physicians, that communion in the hand is a healthier way to receive due to Coronavirus. And never in all that time did they explain about guarding the fragments.

    These thoughts were germinated with the statement of Bishop Athanasius Schneider written in his most recent book-length interview with former LifeSite correspondent Diane Montagna, Christus Vincit.

    “There is the grievous fact of the loss of Eucharistic fragments because of Communion in the hand. No one can deny this,” he wrote. “Fragments of the consecrated host fall to the floor and are subsequently crushed by feet. This is horrible! Our God is trampled on in our churches! No one can deny it.”

    That part about the Our Lord’s Body in Holy Communion being ‘crushed’ via the practice of reception of Holy Communion in the hand

    Pro-lifers seek to stop abortionists from laying their hands on the child in the womb and violating them, literally stop them from crushing the precious child in the womb.

    And that is exactly the same with the Holy Eucharist which when received in the hand has fragments and particles scattered on the floor and trampled and crushed by the feet of parishioners. Even though each particle is Jesus Himself. The awe and reverence due our Lord and this desecration of the Holy Eucharist are exactly why Communion in unconsecrated hands was banned for over 1000 years in the Church until it was reintroduced in 1969, right around the same time abortion came to most of the world.

    And sure sometimes totally inadvertently fragments of the Sacred Host will be lost despite the best efforts of priests and altar boys and the faithful to not let it happen. But to me that is the same as miscarriages where the death of the child in the womb happens despite all our best efforts for that not to happen.

    But why, why, why, would the bishops and priests who knew of this reality not tell the faithful about it? Why have we been left in the dark for 50 years? How many of us would never have dreamed of receiving Holy Communion in the hand had we known of the risk of losing fragments of the Sacred Host?

    As Voice of the Family has written: We in the pro-life movement defend the reality of hidden life. We are accustomed to defending human life hidden in the womb and now we are being called upon to defend the Divine Life hidden in the Sacred Host, Who is being abused by many of those who should be the first to love Him. Catholics in the pro-life movement are uniquely prepared to counter these offences.

    (for the rest of the article, go to the link given above)

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  11. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    This is what it has devolved into o_O:eek: :cry:

    Communion in the hand was bad enough. Priest tells people to hold hosts in their hands while he consecrates

    Posted on 15 July 2020 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

    If only priests were as hard working to develop reverence in their parishes as they are to facilitate communion-no-matter-what and for-anyone-at-all.

    There is a piece at LifeSite, in which I am heavily quoted, about a priest who came up with wacky ideas – astonishingly tacky and irreverent – to facilitate Communion. It is hard to believe that anyone in this day and would do this. But, this is the depth to which we have sunk in some places.

    The priest put out a video, showing also a map with zones on the parish campus where people, divided into categories, had to be. Then his suggestions – I am NOT making this up:

    • Every family will be provided with a ziplock ‘Mass bag’ which contains “everything you need for Mass except Holy Communion.”

    • “Every family will be issued a sacred vessel, and a husband and wife will be designated as Eucharistic ministers for your family.”

    • “When you come to church, you bring your sacred vessel and your Mass bag, and then you’ll pick up the appropriate number of hosts for your family, 2, 3, 4, so on.”

    • “When it’s time for the offertory, you will take your hosts, unconsecrated, from your zip lock bag and place them into your sacred vessel.”

    • “An adult member of your family will hold the sacred vessel for the consecration, the Lord’s Prayer, and the Lamb of God.”

    • “At communion time, you will then as adults give communion to each other and one of the adults will give communion to your children, and then you place your sacred vessel back into your Mass bag and you’ll have it ready for next week.”
    Link to the 4 minute video: HERE

    There are so many problems with these proposals that it is hard to know where to start.

    Here is some of the comments I sent to the writer at LifeSite. He did NOT link to me, for some reason I can’t fathom, so I will provide comments here. In no particular order…

    “Worry free environment” (he talks about that in the video). This smacks of an attitude which is wholly focused on this world, the here and now, the immanent, without regard to, nay rather, through a reduction of the supernatural and eternal to the natural and the worldly.

    This is hardly to be distinguished from a Protestant communion service.

    How undignified.

    I don’t in the least think that this priest intends for all of this to be so infra dignitatem, so tacky. I’m convinced he is well meaning. However, it could be that he is simply so deeply tuned into a modernist frequency that he doesn’t realize how bad this looks, he doesn’t contemplate the potential sacrileges both unintended and intended.

    “Sacred vessels” What does that mean? Does it mean a horrid little inexpensive plastic home Communion pyx that were used for in the past? Does it mean something made of metal? In their photo album I spotted one man with a metal pyx, peering at the Host with a bewildered expression.

    Furthermore, how are the “sacred vessels” to be purified? The priest says, “Place your sacred vessel back into your Mass bag and you’ll have it ready for next week.” Without purification! Are people just going to shake out particles onto the ground, or, unaware of them, haul them around in their ziplock baggies?

    And what is to become of all these “sacred vessels” afterward, whatever they are, when COVID time passes and they are no longer needed? Will people keep them? What happens to them then?

    How are people to be designated as “Eucharistic ministers” exactly? A wink and a nudge? The terminology isn’t even correct. Even “Extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion” ought to be instituted formally as such and have sound training. They should be carefully vetted. How are any of these people being given “Mass bags” being vetted?

    Does the local Bishop of Biloxi, know about this?

    People are to take unconsecrated hosts to be consecrated … at what distance? I looked at the “zones” and their map. There is no way that they are in eyesight of the altar without the obstruction of buildings. How can one be convinced that the consecration was valid? If some of those hosts are NOT consecrated, then people are being lead by the priest to commit, unwittingly, the objective in of idolatry.

    And those cases when the consecration would be valid, what’s to prevent people from taking a few extra hosts to be consecrated and then saved for later, at home? Or for that nice lady down the street, not Catholic, but really nice? Or even to be, quod Deus avertat, give or sold to satanists for ghastly rituals and desecration?

    These crazy gyrations affirm the findings of the Pew Research survey which revealed plummeting belief in the Church’s teachings about the Blessed Sacrament. And those finding may apply to priests, as well.

    Communion in the hand was bad enough, but consecration in the hand and self Communication, having nothing to do with the priest, having nothing to do with the altar, is sacrilege at a new nadir.

    These crazy gyrations affirm the findings of the Pew Research survey which revealed plummeting belief in the Church’s teachings about the Blessed Sacrament. And those finding may apply to priests, as well.

    It’s like something from another religion.


    (emphasis in red is mine - SgC)
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  12. Mario

    Mario Powers

    I just sent in a contribution!

    Glória in excélsis Deo!
  13. AED

    AED Powers

    INSANE. God have mercy!
    On a much different note Bishop Strictland of Tyler Texas just celebrated his first TLM. He said he was in tears at the Consecration. bree a. Dail has the interview on her twitter feed.
  14. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I love Bishop Strickland. God bless him and give him grace to carry on.
    Archbishop Cordileone is another one who promotes the TLM.
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  15. AED

    AED Powers

    Yes!! Archbishop Cordileone knows what's going on. God bless him.
    Suzanne likes this.
  16. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    How touching :love:

    And I pray that all priests will 'discover' the TLM.

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  17. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Church scholar: Proper understanding of Mass requires Communion on tongue
    Fr. Lanzetta emphasized the importance of receiving Holy Communion on the tongue to bring back the rightful reverence due to the Holy Eucharist.
    By LifeSiteNews staff
    Thu Jul 16, 2020 - 8:45 pm EST


    Fr. Serafino Lanzetta. LifeSiteNews / YouTube
    July 16, 2020 (LifeSiteNews) — As part of today’s conference on the importance of receiving Holy Communion on the tongue, a Franciscan theologian emphasized the importance of understanding theological reasons for receiving Holy Communion in this manner.

    Recently, churches and bishops have requested the faithful receive Holy Communion only in the hand or, in some cases, have outright banned the reception of Holy Communion on the tongue, citing concerns about spreading the new coronavirus.

    Fr. Serafino Lanzetta explained the history of the reception of Holy Communion in the hand and explained how the meaning of the Mass as a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice at Golgotha requires reception of Holy Communion on the tongue.

    The Church allowed for the reception of Holy Communion in the hand in 1969 through an indult, which is a permission granted for something outside the norm of Church law in a specific individual case. Fr. Lanzetta pointed out that this permission can never become an imposition on the faithful. The Church cannot say Holy Communion must be received in the hand, only that it is allowed.

    The indult states, “The universal law of the Church is to receive Holy Communion directly on the tongue.”

    A chief concern, as noted in the indult, in extending permission to the faithful to receive Holy Communion in the hand is the “danger of a loss of reverence, of profanation, of adultery of the true doctrine.”

    Currently, the belief in the true presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist at an all-time low among Catholics.

    Fr. Lanzetta emphasized the importance of receiving Holy Communion on the tongue to bring back the rightful reverence due to the Holy Eucharist and to help the faithful understand and believe in the true presence of Christ.

    Fr. Lanzetta pointed to the purpose of the Mass and the Holy Eucharist as a reason for receiving on the tongue: “Has the Holy Eucharist been instituted to be eaten or adored or to be celebrated as the sacrifice?” In order to be fully reverent toward the re-presentation of the sacrifice at Golgotha, he said, we must adore our Lord.

    Fr. Lanzetta pointed to Our Lady’s quiet adoration of Christ at the foot of the cross as an example for how we can adore our Lord’s sacrifice with the proper disposition.

    He emphasized the importance of receiving Holy Communion with the proper interior disposition based on the sacrificial nature and focus of the Mass. The Mass is not a re-presentation of the Last Supper, as some may think — and it is important to distinguish between the re-presentation of the last supper and the re-presentation of the sacrifice at Golgotha. We do not go to Mass to eat and drink. We go to Mass to participate in Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. Participation in that sacrifice requires reverence and adoration.

    Fr. Lanzetta warned, “We can never mix up the meaning of the Last Supper and the meaning of Mass.” The meaning of Mass is in continuity with Christ’s sacrificial action on the cross. This sacrifice requires reverence and adoration. The reception of Holy Communion on the tongue allows for the proper reverence and adoration required to participate in Christ’s sacrifice.

    You can watch Fr. Lanzetta’s full talk here (at around 00:16:00):

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  18. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Bishop Athanasius Schneider Launches International Crusade of Eucharistic Reparation (includes original prayer)

    [​IMG]Bishop Schneider

    ROME, July 20, 2020 (Remnant) — Bishop Athanasius Schneider is calling on Catholic clergy and laity around the world to unite in a crusade of reparation for sins against Jesus in the Holy Eucharist.

    The call comes as instances of profanation and sacrilege against the Most Blessed Sacrament have skyrocketed due to responses to the coronavirus, and after five decades of what the bishop terms unprecedented abuse against the Eucharistic Lord.

    In a statement released today through the Remnant (see full text below), Bishop Schneider, auxiliary bishop of Astana, Kazakhstan, says such abuse includes the widespread practice of “Communion in the hand,” reception of the Eucharist “by those who have not received the sacrament of Penance for many years,” and “the admittance to Holy Communion of couples who are living in a public and objective state of adultery,” i.e. divorced and remarried Catholics.

    For the full article, go to:

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  19. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I just posted this link on another thread.
  20. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    From Bp Schneider's message:

    "In view of the horrible maltreatments of Our Eucharistic Lord—He being continuously trampled underfoot because of Communion in the hand, during which almost always little fragments of the host fall on the floor; He being treated in a minimalistic manner, deprived of sacredness, like a cookie, or treated like garbage by the use of household gloves—no true Catholic bishop, priest or lay faithful can remain indifferent and simply stand by and watch."

    AED likes this.

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