Why the Traditional Latin Mass and not the Novus Ordo Mass

Discussion in 'The Sacraments' started by SgCatholic, Nov 29, 2019.

  1. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    A Review of the Mass of the Americas
    [​IMG] Mark Nowakowski November 27, 2019

    An excerpt from the article, (with emphases being mine - SgC):

    "That EWTN would televise such a work in the context of the traditional liturgy, and that it should be so highly anticipated, well attended, and enthusiastically received online by pre-eminent experts in sacred music, is proof of the significance of the event and the power of sacred music and traditional liturgy. So many Catholics yearn for this to be the normal life of the Church again and are ready to do a great deal to support such a renewal.

    Implicit in this liturgy and great composition is a powerful invitation: for those looking to renew the dwindling audiences for Catholic mass media, as well as those looking to sponsor events capable of renewing our society, you just can’t go much better than beautiful authentic Catholic art, music, and architecture married to the Mass of the Ages. This is the only future where triumph is possible, and this future will get here all the faster if the relevant patrons and gatekeepers in our culture heed the call to support authentic renewal. The liturgy is, after all, the mother of every other good the Church can accomplish.

    In an era of so much bad news in the Church, what can be said about what took place at the Shrine? Perhaps here we see that God is still in charge of His Church, will send us the balm we need to persevere through dark days, and will ultimately affect the necessary renewal for the continuation of authentic Catholicism in his own time and way. Perhaps it is in these continued gestures of loving fealty — a beautiful Mass, a faithful homily, a composer toiling toward the pursuit of Beauty, the thankless work of rebuilding one institution after another, which will echo in the darkness every time, moving things slowly, through the Blessed Mother, toward the renewal of our beloved Mother Church."

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  2. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Taking the Tradpill
    Kenneth Dobbs May 4, 2020

    This article contains sections of the author’s forthcoming book Joy to Our Youth: Why Millennials are Returning to Traditional Catholicism. It is edited here with the author’s permission. If you enjoy this transcript, be on the lookout for this book when it is published.

    “You could take the blue pill. You’ll wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. Or you could take the red pill. You’ll stay in Wonderland, and I’ll show you how deep the rabbit hole really goes.”

    The above quote has been immortalized in the famous award-winning movie The Matrix. The term “red-pilled” has been popularized for various moments of an individual realizing the truth about a given circumstance and admitting that he previously held the wrong, but generally accepted, position on a topic (the blue-pilled position). The blue-pilled position within the Catholic world has been the belief that traditionalists are the weird, pale, and miserable individuals who live in bunkers and cling to dead and outdated beliefs. While there are scandals in the Church, the future looks bright by encouraging new, progressive, and innovative practices into the liturgy such as liturgical dancing, guitars, and charismatic renewal. So the story goes. In this article, I will be presenting you with the pill that Millennials and other Catholics are starting to select instead of the blue-pilled position of the Church: the Tradpill.

    What is the Tradpill? The Tradpill is the realization that the current state of the Church is a state of emergency. It is the realization that while the Church has gone through crises in its past, this crisis is nearly unprecedented in its desolation and heterodoxy. A plethora of Pew Research Center surveys reveal the extent of heterodox teachings in the Church in the modern United States, including sixty-two percent of Catholics believing that Communion should be given to married people who separated from their spouses and live conjugally with someone else [1]. Only a third of Catholics believe that sodomy is sinful [2]. Over half of Catholics believe that abortion should be legal in nearly all circumstances, and over seventy-five percent of Catholics believe that contraception should be permitted [3]. The Index of Leading Catholic Indicators: The Church Since Vatican II found sharp declines in Mass attendance, baptisms, religious ordinations, and even Catholic high schools, or the state of the Faith in Europe [4].

    An example of someone taking the Tradpill and accepting the state of the Church is Dr. Scott Hahn, a professor at my alma mater. He had a Tradpill moment when he praised the leadership of Bishop Athanasius Schneider, Archbishop Viganò, and Cardinal Burke for calling the Pachamama idolatry out for what it was and calling for the sacraments to be distributed during this coronavirus epidemic. He was also spotted attending the traditional Latin Mass with Father Ripperger and famous comedian Kevin James.

    There have been almost innumerable experiences of average Catholics becoming Tradpilled. Some are joyful occasions, others humorous, and still others tragic. Dr. Taylor Marshall described his Tradpill moment in his podcast with Timothy Gordon: when he went to receive Holy Communion after converting from Anglicanism to Catholicism. But instead of using an altar rail, seeing a paten, and receiving from a priest (as done among the Anglicans), he was receiving Communion from a layperson wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with Grover from Sesame Street. It was in that moment that Dr. Marshall knew he no longer wanted to attend the Novus Ordo Mass (that is, the 1969 Mass of Pope Paul VI) if he had the opportunity to avoid it, and he began to seek out Tradition.

    My Tradpill moment was not as lighthearted. One day before a Novus Ordo morning Mass, I had read an article that described how the paten (the traditional chin plate to collect particles of the Sacred Host) had been diabolically abandoned after the Second Vatican Council, and now particles of the Sacred Host fall to the floor carelessly. The author challenged his Novus Ordo readers to look down at the floor when they go up to receive Communion and see if they can find any particles or fragments of the Host.

    During Mass, I had almost forgotten about the article until it was the time to receive Communion. The idea entered my head again as I was walking up to receive, so I said a prayer that I may receive Communion worthily and in an undistracted manner. But I could not help but open my eyes before receiving, and I checked the floor. To my horror, I saw white flakes on the floor by the priest’s feet. I received Communion and was utterly scandalized by what I had just seen.

    For the rest of Mass, I prayed, asking the Lord for forgiveness if I had stepped on Him, and for never even considering the amount of abuse that takes place to His precious Body without a Communion paten. When the Mass had ended, I waited for the parishioners to clear out. Once they were gone, I carefully stepped over to the area where I had seen the fragments. They were still roughly in the same spot. I began audibly praying the Hail Mary while I picked up the fragments and placed them into my hand and receiving them reverently, not knowing what else to do.

    While I was doing this, a woman from the parish walked up to me and asked me what I was doing. I showed her the fragments of what I believed to be the Host. She took one, placed a fragment on her tongue, and then said: “It must be a cracker! It tastes sweet.”

    I responded, “The Host tastes sweet and has the accidents of a cracker, or bread.” She shook her head and told me I was worrying too much.

    This event affected me more than any of the intellectual arguments, prophecies, visions, or heresies I encountered when I was researching the origins of the Novus Ordo. But in this moment, all those resources were enhanced and given extreme clarity. The words of Our Lady of Good Success echoed in my head: “My Most Holy Son will see Himself cast upon the ground and trampled upon by filthy feet” [5]. Later on, I read a quote from Bishop Athanasius Schneider that confirmed this tragedy: “There is the grievous fact of the loss of Eucharistic fragments because of Communion in the hand. No one can deny this. Fragments of the consecrated host fall to the floor and are subsequently crushed by feet. This is horrible! Our God is trampled on in our churches! No one can deny it. This is happening on a large scale” [6].

    I was officially Tradpilled.

    Thousands of Catholics all over the world are experiencing similar circumstances to mine. They are discovering the beauty of traditional devotions that have been abandoned: the Latin Mass, Vespers and Benediction, the rosary, fasting, tenebrae, etc. The statistics demonstrate this reality. A recent study found that while Novus Ordo parishes have been shrinking, traditional parishes have been growing [7]. Another study found that the average traditional parish has larger family sizes, younger attendees, and higher male attendance [8]. While the modern Church painfully attempts to reach the youth with guitar Masses and rock songs, young Catholics find themselves enthralled with the traditional Latin Mass. The most recent example of young Catholics embracing Tradition was seen at the National Catholic Youth Conference of 2019, when the Solemn High Mass packed St John’s, the church located right across from the conference center [9].

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  3. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Not only is Tradition able to assist the Church by attracting the laity of all ages and both sexes, it but can help solve the vocation crisis. Traditional orders have seen an increase in the number of priestly ordinations, and female religious vocations have also been aided by traditional devotions. For example, an order of nuns in the United States turned from the modern innovations of Vatican II back to their pre-conciliar devotions, and the results were astounding, “The Discalced Carmelites have turned from the modern Church’s reforms of the 1960s and embraced ancient traditions — particularly the traditional Latin Mass. Now their order is booming, with multiple at-capacity monasteries dotting the eastern U.S” [10].

    This article will not be enough to Tradpill you. The Tradpill is a personal experience, not something that can be read about. Hopefully, whoever is reading this does not attend a parish where the Eucharist is left open to abuse as I did!

    More than any story or argument, increased prayer and attending the traditional Mass can Tradpill an individual. I highly encourage everyone reading this article: find and attend the Traditional Mass once this crisis is over. Attending the Latin Mass for the first three times is difficult and different, but it is just as Pope Benedict XVI said: “[t]he Extraordinary Form is difficult in the way that anything that’s rewarding is difficult, like classical music when what we know is mainly popular music” [11].

    When this crisis is over and the churches open back up, you will have a choice on your hands. You can take the blue-pilled position and pretend nothing ever happened and that everything is back to normal. Or you can take the Tradpilll, as thousands of other Catholics have, young and old.

    [1] Michael Lipka, “Most U.S. Catholics Hope for Change in Church Rule on Divorce, Communion,” Pew Research Center, October 26, 2015.

    [2] Id., “U.S. Catholics More Hopeful Than Expectant of Changes to Church Teachings,” Pew Research Center, March 12, 2014.

    [3] Id., “Vatican Synod on Family Highlights Discord Between Church Teachings and U.S. Catholics’ Views,” Pew Research Center, October 3, 2014.

    [4] Kenneth C. Jones, “Index of Leading Catholic Indicators: The Church Since Vatican II,” Oriens Publishing, St. Louis:2003.

    [5] Father Manuel Sousa Pereira, “The Admirable Life of Mother Mariana Volume I,” Tradition in Action Inc, 2005.

    [6] Bishop Athanasius Schneider, Christus Vincit, Christ’s Triumph Over the Darkness of the Age, Angelico Press, Brooklyn, N.Y., 2019, 230.

    [7] Jeffrey Cimmino, “Traditional Catholic Parishes Grow Even as US Catholicism Declines,” Washington Examiner, November 2, 2019.

    [8] Joseph Shaw, PhD., “The Extraordinary Form and the Evangelization of Men,” Foederatio Internationalis Una Voce, position paper no. 26, September 3, 2012.

    [9] Gregory Dipippo, “Tradition is for the Young: EF Mass at the National Catholic Youth Conference,” New Liturgical Movement,November 29, 2019.

    [10] Drew Belsky, “Latin Mass, Church Traditions Bring Boom in Vocations for US Order of Nuns,” LifeSite, August2 13, 2019.

    [11] Nicholas Frankovich, “It’s Extraordinary,” First Things, September 26, 2013.

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  4. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    As much as I personally enjoy assisting in either rite I think that the problem is not so much in the form of the Mass that is being offered to God because as we all agree both forms are valid but I believe that the problem lies with the attacks on priests and with some bishops. For some reason, whether it is in their formation or later on it appears like some either lose their ability to discern what is pleasing to God or possibly never had it to begin with. Maybe they can not discern the voice of God in prayer, or their prayer lives are shallow rather than deep or maybe they turn to intellectual pursuits in place of them or place materialism ahead of God and do not repent.. I do not know. All I do know is that it appears as if some of our priests especially are struggling in their discernment at best and at worst some of them are wolves in sheep clothing.
    This is clearly not limited to priests of the ordinary rite either. We have all seen the recent expose of the SSPX and its leaderships coverup by Church Militant. Priests are attacked by demons both in their private lives as well as when they are standing before the alter. Just as each of us suffer with temptations they too suffer them. Probably in some regards much more intensely so than we do because of their special place in God's kingdom.
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  5. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Totally agree with you. Sign of the times.
    The Church will become small. Stay in the Barque. Stay in the state of Grace.
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
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  6. AED

    AED Powers

    I cannot stress enough our need and our obligation to respect the Sacred office of the priesthood--in spite of the scandalous actions of some or the lukewarmness of others. Our obligation is to pray for them. Plead to heaven for them and not to be tempted into the sin of "detraction". It is such a temptation to do this and it is deadly. (Having committed these sins to my shame I am daily made aware of their seriousness) the same goes for bishops. Their sacred office is powerful! Demons tremble before it whether the Bishop is holy or unholy.
    I strongly urge everyone to listen to the grace force podcast with Fr Heilman and Doug Barry interviewing Dan Schneider who works with Fr Ripperger. It was just posted.
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  7. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    The most glaring and awful problem with the Novus Ordo mass is the undeniable sacrilege that happens every single time because Holy Communion is given in the hand and without a paten below.
    Even if one receives on the tongue, one would still be stepping on Our Lord because of crumbs that fall from others' hands onto the floor.

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  8. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Boils down to what Don said, problem boils down to the hierarchy which has allowed this.
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  9. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Yes, we must respect the sacred office of the priesthood and pray for those priests who dishonor their priesthood.
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  10. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Believe it or not that does not happen willingly at my parish. Our alter boys still use patens during the ordinary rite even for those who by their own choice decide to receive in the hand. I realize we are not the norm but there are still priests and parishes who are as careful about this as can be. Unfortunately yes there are probably half the congregation who receive in the hand though and there are a lot of ecumenical ministers. We sing the responses to the Mass in Latin this time of year as well and this is the ordinary form of the mass not the extraordinary rite.

    I'm not about to start declaring sacrilege at mass. It is far above my pay grade in God's kingdom and I believe that it divides members of the body of the bride of Christ against one another which we were very specifically warned to be always vigilant of.
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  11. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Exactly, Don.
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  12. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    "I'm not about to start declaring sacrilege at mass. It is far above my pay grade in God's kingdom and I believe that it divides members of the body of the bride of Christ against one another which we were very specifically warned to be always vigilant of. "

    Truly wise words, Don.
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  13. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Bp Schneider has already declared it:
    And regarding the division of members of the body of Christ, this is what our Lord Himself said:

    Luke 12

    47 And that servant, who knew the will of his lord and prepared not himself and did not according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48But he that knew not and did things worthy of stripes shall be beaten with few stripes. And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom they have committed much, of him they will demand the more.

    Not Peace, But Division

    49I am come to cast fire on the earth. And what will I, but that it be kindled? 50And I have a baptism wherewith I am to be baptized. And how am I straitened until it be accomplished? 51Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation. 52For there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided: three against two, and two against three. 53The father shall be divided against the son and the son against his father: the mother against the daughter and the daughter against her mother: the mother-in-law against the daughter-in-law and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

    And here, what St Paul said:

    Romans 16

    Avoid Divisions

    17Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned and avoid them. 18For they that are such serve not Christ our Lord but their own belly: and by pleasing speeches and good words seduce the hearts of the innocent.

    The division happens as a consequence of the Truth.

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  14. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    This change has to come from the Bishops and the rest of the hierarchy. We did not cause this and we cannot control it.

    Bishop Schneider cannot use the exact words "sacrilege" to describe Communion in the hand because it is allowed by the Church. I learned that in one of the articles you posted but did not fully quote.
  15. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    [QIt can be a sin to go against required rubrics. Since Communion on the tongue is required in the old rite, to hold that in contempt would be a sin. In the new rite, by contrast, Communion in the hand is not required; it is permitted. In fact, the universal norm is on the tongue, with Communion in the hand being an exception to the norm. That means it could never be sinful to refuse to receive Communion in the hand, just as it could never be wrong to insist on receiving on the tongue, provided one was in a condition to approach the Sacrament.UOTE="SgCatholic, post: 295177, member: 4918"]
    Sg: This was taken from an article you recently posted by Peter K.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
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  16. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Isn't it obvious that "trampling God in our churches" is sacrilege?

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  17. AidanK

    AidanK A great sinner

    In times gone by when I was very naive I was a "Eucharistic minister". Even then , I was disturbed by seeing numerous people brushing the fragments from their hands after receiving the Blessed Sacrament. The tiniest fragment of the Eucharist is still the body and blood, soul and divinity of Our Blessed Lord. That is why Communion on the tongue must be sacrosanct
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  18. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    What point are you trying to put across here?

    The same paragraph with emphasis:
    Since Communion on the tongue is required in the old rite, to hold that in contempt would be a sin.

    In the new rite, by contrast, Communion in the hand is not required; it is permitted.

    In fact, the universal norm is on the tongue, with Communion in the hand being an exception to the norm.

    That means it could never be sinful to refuse to receive Communion in the hand, just as it could never be wrong to insist on receiving on the tongue, provided one was in a condition to approach the Sacrament.

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  19. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Sadly, I too, have been an EMHC before.
    I stopped when I realised that it is totally wrong.

  20. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    That wasn’t what you said, you attributed words to him which he did not use. (that he had "already declared it", "it" meaning sacrilege. ) Just making a point and I hope, a correction. We can’t attribute words to another falsely. That is bearing false witness. We can’t afford to get carried away. If you can find a quote from Bishop S where he uses the word sacrilege to describe communion in the hand, I will retract.

    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020

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