Why I Don't Critisice the Pope

Discussion in 'Positive Critique' started by padraig, Sep 7, 2020.

  1. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Brian Holdsworth is a fairly recent young Catholic convert to the Church. But although young, very,very intelligent , leaned, wise, Orthodox.

    But so unsually for one so young he never lets his tongue run away with his head and heart. He always talks in a very measured, careful way. Not like a a crazy mad Irishman like myself.

    Here he speaks about, 'Not criticising the Pope.'

    mmm.. he's someone I old in a such huge respect...but.. .err well. I'll take this away and think about it some..

    ..mmmm.. well...errr mmm..

    anyway he's such a very good Catholic I pay attention to him.

     
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  2. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Padraig,

    The times I have publicly railed against the Holy Father, circumstances have sometimes occurred causing me to be challenged by:

    James 4:11 Do not speak evil against one another, brethren. He that speaks evil against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you that you judge your neighbor?

    Someone might point to Pope Pius X, but I would simply say he was the father of our Catholic family who had the authority to call his sons to toe the line. Now, if someone were to ask my opinion about Francis I will respond in an honest, but charitable way. But I don't think I'll lead the charge. Once that becomes habit, where will it stop? It's been a quiet 6 months, but now two situations have arisen with the Pope including this upcoming encyclical on human fraternity. I will sigh, but hopefully not rant. We shall see.

    Safe in the Father's Arms!
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
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  3. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Good point about St Pius X being the father. He had authority over the Church.
    This Pope, as well as each one of us
    will have to answer to Our Lord. Our rants will not change anything.
    We do not have authority to act on that level.
    Some members feel that they must act, do something, keep speaking out. I really don’t identify with them in that approach. I feel
    that I don’t have authority. God has given
    me authority in my family and in my territory, limited as it is.
    I can pray and act within those parameters only,
    Imho
    That being said, if something against Tradition is happening, we do have a responsibility to point that out and to keep following the Traditional Magisterium. We do not have to follow a Pope into error. Pointing something out is not ranting. Just point it out and move on. LOL
    If we can. LOL
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
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  4. AidanK

    AidanK A great sinner

    Our receipt of the sacrament of baptism gives us not only the authority but the duty to speak against anyone who contravenes sacred tradition
     
  5. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Not sure I agree with this. Can you share where you found this? Is it in the Catholic Catechism? If so, I would like to read it.
     
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  6. AidanK

    AidanK A great sinner

    It's my opinion based on a belief that the sacrament of baptism has ensuing duties as well as graces
     
  7. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this in part.

    "That being said, if something against Tradition is happening, we do have a responsibility to point that out and to keep following the Traditional Magisterium. We do not have to follow a Pope into error. Pointing something out is not ranting. Just point it out and move on. LOL
    If we can. LOL"

    Last edited: 33 minutes ago
    I posted this above. It somewhat agrees with what you said.
    I have listened to some of what Fr. Ripperger teaches on Sensus Fidelium and he is very conscious of what we can do with authority in our territory. He's an exorcist. We don't want to move out of our authority or we will have consequences.
     
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  8. padraig

    padraig New Member

    The times are so confusing it is very difficult to know what to do sometimes. I recall when earlier in his Reign certain members of the forum (including myself spoke out) there were quite a few folks left the forum in hurry.:):)

    Young Brian Holdsworth I greatly respect. He is certainly not a Liberal of Modernist , he attends the Latin Mass for instance.

    It is true as you say Terry going on and on about the goings on in the Vatican is the road to no town. It just becomes a constant stream of negativity that gets us nowhere. at the same time I have a huge regard for sites like Life Site News, Church Militant and One Peter Five who are the watch dogs who always bark bless them. This is their charism from God.


    There is a difference between , 'Attacking', 'Ranting' and critique I think. We used to study William Shakespeare and did critique on him. This wasn't to attack the poor man it was simply to tease apart his writings and weigh him up. There is a difference between discussing and asking questions and having genuine debate and doing a hatchet job.

    You can see this with President Trump at the moment. Some people want to ask honest questions. Some people want simply to do a hatchet job, to attack.

    As to Spiritual Fatherhood. Well a Parish Priest is a Spiritual Father to his Parish. But say if he was molesting the alter boys or in an indecent Carnal relationship or whatever , if we went to the police and Bishop and nothing happened would be right to criticise and make things public. But of course we would.

    If the same thing happened with our higher Spiritual Father the Bishop would we be right to make a fuss in the same circumstances. But of course we would.

    If the same thing happened with a yet higher Spiritual Father , a Cardinal who stand in the shoes of the Apostles we would of course be right to make a fuss and get things dealt with.

    Now moving on to our Holy Father the Pope. We look at McCarrick , China and Pachama for instance. Should we make a fuss. Is doing so to, 'attack', the Pope? Well no, I don't honestly think so. But there reaches a point when if we go on and on and on about it to no purpose it becomes very negative and self defeating. It becomes rather like kicking yourself in the head all the time.

    If it changed things or helped people, well fine. But dong it all the time simply for the sake of doing it does not seem fine.

     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
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  9. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    This is a really really good explanation!
    Thank you.
     
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  10. padraig

    padraig New Member

    My Father was a very good man .He was a very devout Catholic , the father of seven sons and three daughters. He never drank or smoked or, of course took drugs. I never heard him utter a lie or do a dishonest thing his entire life. He was devoted to his wife and family , kept the ten commandments and walked the good path.

    But he was a sinner as we all are. He could, I think be far too stern and unyielding with a fierce temper. We his children often talked about him amongst ourselves (not with outsiders). They say you are never adult until you forgive your Father.

    Pretending there is not ever a problem, not ever a fault is dishonest, maybe even a lie. You can of course love and still critique. Not attack, no never that but critique. I don't believe God or love calls us to be blind or to pretend that which is right in front of our eyes is not really there.

    A bad Pope is a bad Pope. A very bad Pope is a very Bad Pope. ..and well if it makes me a bad person for saying so , well I'm sorry but there it is. We have a very,very,very bad Pope indeed.

    I won't make a big issue about it, I won't rant about it it.

    But there it is. If that makes me a Bad Catholic and a bad person, I'm sorry there it is.

    We've had many Bad Popes before, but nothing nearly as Bad as our present one.
     
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  11. picadillo

    picadillo Powers


    25 years ago when trying to expose Cardinal Bernadin and the pedophilia crisis , which was hush hush at the time, an associate of mine, father of 9 kids, member of opus dei, chastised me for speaking "ill" of a prince of the church. He gave me a tongue-lashing. I respectfully disagreed with him then as I do now. The main argument of "dont say anything to harm mother church" looks more and more hollow to me over time watching events unfold. Another saying I believe is also wildly misinterpreted is the biblical verse "the gates of hell will never prevail" (human or divine part just like the pope ). I believe with this hiearchy the church is on an auto-destruction path and only God can stop it. That is why Our Lady calls us to pray.
     
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  12. picadillo

    picadillo Powers

    The "spirit of vatican 2" I believe is obviously anti-tradition and not from the spirit of God but the spirit of satan. This is the auto-destruction of the faith and one in which PF whole-heartedly believes. Vatican 2 when interpreted with this spirit instead of tradition was the trojan horse in my opinion. Prove me wrong.
     
  13. AED

    AED Powers

    I cannot disagree.
     

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