Who will be saved?

Discussion in 'PC Help.' started by AZCactus, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

    Sorry Ms7,..I'm having a real hard time with this Vasulla,.at the 104.14 mark, she claims we can be transformed into Godso_O Also at 122.40 she claims she spoke with Cardinal Kasper about Church unity,..this is an article on some of his views
    ROME, December 20, 2013 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Despite a recent strongly worded clarification from Rome, confusion is continuing to be stirred up over the Catholic Church’s practice of refusing Communion to those who are divorced and remarried. A prominent curial cardinal, and favourite of Pope Francis, has defied the Vatican’s doctrinal office, saying that he expects a change.
    Cardinal Walter Kasper has said bluntly, and in direct opposition to the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), that the rules will shortly be changed to allow divorced and remarried Catholics to be admitted to Holy Communion.

    Cardinal Walter Kasper is moving ahead
    In an interview with the German language paper Die Zeit, which was later picked up by Vatican Radio, Cardinal Kasper (who is himself a member of the CDF) said, “Christians who want to live by faith with the Church, who acknowledge that they have made mistakes by the breaking of the first marriage, which they also regret - for them it should be a way back fully to participate in Christian and ecclesial life.”

    “What is possible with God, namely, forgiveness, should help to achieve this even in the Church,” he said.

    In November, during a talk at the University of Munster, Kasper followed up on the theme, saying, “Turning someone away from the communion rail – one doesn’t do that.”

    The Church, basing its teaching on Christ’s words in the Gospel of Luke, does not recognize the existence of divorce. Persons who have divorced civilly and remarried, therefore, are considered to be objectively in a state of grave or “mortal” sin as adulterers, and therefore precluded from receiving Communion.

    The controversy was rekindled in October this year when the Archdiocese of Freiburg released a document laying out plans to allow divorced and remarried Catholics to receive Holy Communion if they promised to enter “a new moral responsibility” with their new spouse.

    In response, Archbishop Gerhard Müller, prefect of the CDF, published an article in the Vatican’s newspaper L’Osservatore Romano saying that the practice of withholding Communion from those in a state of mortal sin would remain in place. This was followed by a letter to the German bishops ordering them to revisit their draft document.

    The German bishops responded to this with more defiance, with Bishop Gebhard Fürst of Stuttgart saying in November they had voted to adopt the guidelines and expected them to be approved at their next plenary meeting in March 2014.

    While Müller’s article, and a strongly worded letter to the German bishops, made it clear that such persons were objectively in a state of mortal sin that precludes them from receiving Communion, Kasper said the change in practice is imminent. The teaching, Muller said, is explicitly laid out in the Gospels when Christ said that divorce was only allowed to in the Mosaic Law out of the “hardness” of their hearts.

    The issue has been a high priority for the German Catholic bishops for whom much of the Church’s funding comes from the Church Tax, in which citizens identify themselves as affiliated with a particular church and the government pays a portion of their income tax to support it. The Catholic Church’s refusal to budge on Communion for divorced and remarried Catholics has cut into Catholic revenues as thousands of Catholics in “irregular” situations have switched their affiliation on tax forms.

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    In 2012, the German bishops’ conference issued a statement that Catholics who did not pay the Church Tax would be refused the sacraments. German citizens are required to give an affiliation on their tax forms, and the bishops declared that changing the affiliation to one of the Protestant Churches is tantamount to a declaration of apostasy. In 2011, the Catholic Church in Germany received 5 billion euros (approximately $6.84 billion U.S.) from the government.

    The bishops have repeatedly complained of the loss of membership and blame the Church’s refusal to change teachings such as that on divorce, the reservation of priestly ordination to men and clerical celibacy. The German media, however, has pointed to the clerical sex abuse scandals as a major motivator for the refusal of Catholics to continue paying the tax levy. In 2011, 126,488 Catholics asked to be removed from registers.

    Kasper, long a theological opponent of the former Cardinal Ratzinger, has espoused a change in the practice for years. In 2005, Cardinal Kasper refused to accept the decision of a synod of bishops on the question, saying “It is a question that exists, and we have to reflect on it in order to be able to respond…Every bishop in every Western country recognizes that this is a grave problem.” Of the Synod’s conclusion that the practice of withholding Communion could not be changed, Kasper said it “is not the final result.”

    In 1993, as Bishop of Rottenburg-Stuttgart, Kasper released a pastoral letter along with Karl Lehman, then-Bishop of Mainz that allowed divorced and remarried Catholics to receive Communion after “serious examination” of their conscience.
    Carmel333 likes this.
  2. Carmel333

    Carmel333 Archangels

    Becoming a disciple of Christ is very difficult indeed. To be worthy, we must leave all worldly things that we are attached to, not only sinful relationships that are not sanctioned by God, but even our own families, lands, and possessions. In holy religious sisters and monks, you will see these disciples. This is said by Christ to be the BEST way to salvation, as when our hearts are not dependent on worldly things, we do not despair when they are taken away. So what about everyone else? In this we must look to the holy married Saints. What did they do when their husband's or wives cheated, became drunks, abusive or became less then they had hoped? What did they do when the "romance" was gone and they needed "more"? They went directly to God for comfort and were given in hundredfold! They loved, served, and prayed for their spouse, as their vows and vocation of marriage on this earth demanded. They fasted for their spouse and marriage, and were truly the "good and faithful servant" Jesus talks about. Yes we can have sympathy for those who get themselves so attached to a person in a sinful relationship that, even though they desire God and the Eucharist, they also cannot give up the sin. But we must be truthful. We cannot call homosexuals sinners and then go and divorce and remarry and proudly insist on Holy Communion. A sin is a sin, and ALL sins hurt God and are forbidden. When we repent, we TURN AWAY from sin, no matter how hard it seems, and we start again. Sometimes we must do this each and every day of our lives, and sometimes it seems that we must try again every HOUR of our lives. But each time we repent, turn away from our sin, and start again, we received grace and comfort to strengthen us even more. To tell people it is ok to sin, really pulls them down instead of lifting them up. It basically says " you are not an awesome child of God, and therefore we don't really expect much of you".
    Julia, Pray4peace, Clare A and 3 others like this.
  3. andree

    andree Archangels

    Not Gods with capital G, god with small g. The text that Vassula is reading at the 1.01.14 is about the Holy Spirit can be read here, where you will see a footnote that clarifies the statement about being transformed into a god. Here is the excerpt:

    all of you are given access to make part of My Light and become one flame; as much as grace is Light, so are the virtues that are in the Light; they are obtained by those who dwell in Me, in My Light, and through the intimate relationship with Me; these 2 will enliven you into becoming light allowing you to grow into piety, truly resembling Me, transforming you into a god 3, and transforming your mind, soul and heart to radiate My Glory, for within you will be Nobility Itself 4, My Kingdom and My Throne; and anyone who sees you will be perceiving Me, not you; altogether we shall be one;

    Footnote 2: the virtues
    Footnote 3: god by participation: adoptive sons and daughters of the Most High
    Footnote 4: God
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2014
  4. andree

    andree Archangels

  5. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Thanks. Divinisation is what we Catholics refer to as, 'Spiritual Marriage.'
  6. St Peter also spoke about this, only we don't pay that much attention to him:

    2 Peter 1:1-3

    1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
    To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
    2 Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

    3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. ...​

    The Fathers of the Church talk a lot about this divinization, which the Eastern churches have kept much more in the surface memory than our own Catholic Tradition. But it is there especially at the very beginning of the Church.

    Here you have a little taste of this from the Liturgy of the Hours -Office of Readings- the official prayer of the Church: a quote from St. Basil the Great, Bishop's "Treatise on the Holy Spirit"

    Through the Spirit we become citizens of heaven, we are admitted to the company of the angels, we enter into eternal happiness, and abide in God. Through the Spirit we acquire a likeness to God; indeed, we attain what is beyond our most sublime aspirations – we become God.

    Here is the whole quote from the Divine Office:
    Julia likes this.
  7. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

    Of course we can be partaker's in Divine grace to certain degree's, but there is only one judge who will determine our "godliness".
    We are to strive for holy perfection, but we are in a spiritual battle which began in the garden when Eve was first tempted to eat of the forbidden fruit...
    (Genesis 7:1-5; Romans 5:12-21; 2 Peter 3:1-9)
    1Now the serpent was more subtle than any of the beasts of the earth which the Lord God made. And he said to the woman: Why hath God commanded you, that you should not eat of every tree of paradise? 2And the woman answered him, saying: Of the fruit of the trees that are in paradise we do eat: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of paradise, God hath commanded us that we should not eat; and that we should not touch it, lest perhaps we die. 4And the serpent said to the woman: No, you shall not die the death. 5For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil.
    When it comes to spiritual warfare, it cannot be stressed enough that we should first of all distrust ourselves because of our fallen nature. Lest one should give into the temptation of pride and determine ourselves to be like God.
    After all "Who is like unto God"?
    The great concern for me is how many are following this woman Vasulla, a self proclaimed messenger of God, who is in a second marriage outside the Church,..claims an intimate relationship with Our Lord and receives Holy Communion.
    She is not approved by the Church,..and no one has a problem with that???
    Julia and FoundSoul like this.
  8. FoundSoul

    FoundSoul Angels

    I have loads of problems Sunburst with most mystics or visionaries. I can never discern much so mostly I just read this board because it helps me. I find myself doing what Fatima said - just to stay in the state of grace and take each day one by one. Charlie says the same I think and John Martinez. The rest I just leave to other people who are more knowledgible about things.

    I do not know this visionary Vassula at all, but I do not see how Our Lord would condone her second civil marriage/
    Julia and sunburst like this.
  9. AZCactus

    AZCactus Seraphim

    I have a little rant that I need to get off of my chest this morning. I have been a Catholic now just over 20 years and converted because of the confusion of teachings within the protestant churches, I won't go into the numerous diversities of their teachings here. I looked to Mother Church, The Body of Christ, because in Her I saw the fidelity of teaching through out the ages and throughout the ages I saw a hunger in Her for the salvation of souls. WHERE HAS THAT HUNGER GONE???

    The Pope pushes protection of nature, front and center, we are concerned who is marrying who, we have to stop abortion, where are we going to hide when the chastisement comes and on and on and on. Yes these are all good causes, in fact holy causes, but these aren't the salvation of souls. Where did shadrach meshach and abednego go when the persecution came upon them? (Hint Daniel 3:16-18) I'll tell you where into the fire and what happened to them, The Lord Protected them. Did our Lord tell us to go out and protect nature and make everyone stop doing evil. No He told us to go out and convert the nations and why did he tell us to do that it is because by converting the pagan not only would their souls be saved but they would also stop doing evil. I am telling you you can't stop the pagan from doing evil unless their hearts are first converted and filled with the power of the Holy Spirit.

    Brothers and Sisters in Christ I am calling on you to join with me and pray pray pray for the conversion of Souls and when the chastisement comes (Hint: It's already here just ask the Syrian, Nigerian, Chinese, North Korean and many other Christians) walk into the fire with the Lord and he will protect you. Only by conversion of souls, or the Coming of the Lord, will evil be overcome in lives.

    God Bless you all. Lynn
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
    RoryRory and Indy like this.
  10. CrewDog

    CrewDog Guest

    As for Souls Saved .... In my "darker" moments I take great comfort in the message of The Divine Mercy:)

    I think this Verse that came to my in-box today "dovetails" with AZC's thoughts?:

    Heartlight Daily Verse -July 5
    Isaiah 12:4
    Give thanks to the Lord, call on his name; make known among the nations what he has done and proclaim that his name is exalted.
    Thoughts on today's verse:
    It is wrong to think God's love for the nations began only with Jesus and the Great Commission. Remember Jonah's preaching to save Israel's great enemy, Nineveh? Remember the precious story of Ruth? God loves all people and wants them to come to share in his grace. As Christians, we are his salt and light, here to touch all the people of the world and beckon them to come back to the Father who loves them.
    Holy God, stir in my heart a greater passion to share your love with the world. May my life, my money, and my concerns be used to do more of your work throughout the world. Please bless the efforts of all those who share the Gospel of Jesus in a culture other than their own. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.
    Visit heartlight.org for more

  11. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Hope and Fear must be balanced. If not, Presumption or Despair are the likely outcomes. Our Lady, at Fatima, told us to pray that all might be saved and gave us the words and all. Also, however, she showed a vision of many souls falling into Hell.

    Universal salvation seems a clear ruse of the devil. Realistically, if you accepted that you'd be licensed to do what you like.

    Personally, I try not to take too many chances, and will be delighted if I'm the one left turning off the lights in Purgatory!
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
    kathy k and CrewDog like this.

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