Was Jesus, 'Nice'?

Discussion in 'Spirit Daily and Spirit Digest' started by padraig, Jan 10, 2020.

  1. padraig

    padraig New Member

    https://www.catholicconvert.com/blog/2020/01/07/was-jesus-nice-2/

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    I wish I had a dollar for every time someone has said to me. “That was not very Christ-like.” This response usually comes after being honest to the point of making someone upset. The implication is that Jesus was a cuddly little nice guy who was always smiling, always accepting with kind words – in short NICE.

    In America we tend to be pretty nice, except maybe if you live in New York City. But in contrast to the rest of the world we tend to be very polite, genteel, gracious and nice. Tour guides in other countries say that Americans are the nicest people. We transpose our niceness onto Jesus and think he was a lot like us.

    But does LOVE = NICE?

    Of course Jesus was loving. He is God after all and God is love (1 John 4:8). We also know that love does not always equate to NICE. God allowed Paul to have a thorn in the flesh to keep him humble (2 Cor 12:7). Three times Paul prayed for it to be removed. God said NO. God was not acting very American. He certainly wasn’t very nice about it.

    Nice is defined primarily as “pleasant or commendable, kind or friendly” (Collins English Dictionary). It originally comes from the Latin meaning “simple, silly or ignorant.”

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    There is such a thing as “tough love.” It is the kind of love that cares enough to be honest, to confront, to discipline, to cause temporary pain to bring about eternal glory. On the surface “tough love” does not always appear to be nice. How often has a child, sent to the corner blurt out “You are not very nice!”

    Was Jesus nice?

    Like Aslan the Lion in C. S. Lewis’ Narnia series, Jesus is approachable and loving, but don’t ever consider him “tame” or too cuddly. Jesus is God as well as man. He expressed the wrath and anger of God as well as the mercy and love of God.

    Imagine coming to the Temple in Jerusalem one day to pray. You hear a great commotion and run over to see an angry man throwing over tables, grabbing the money from the merchants and throwing the money on the ground.

    [​IMG] Whipping the money changers and dumping over their tables
    But worse, you see him make a scourge of cords – a whip – and striking people with it. You are shocked that anyone would be so rude and destructive, so inconsiderate and mean to lash people with a whip. People ran in fear! Everyone was upset. Jesus was red in the face and scowling. It certainly wasn’t very “Christ-like.” How nice was that?

    Jesus was always loving, but he was not always nice, as we Americans count niceness. Here is just one example. Jesus spoke very harshly to his fellow Jews.

    “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. . . . You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? (Matthew 23:27, 28, 33).

    Ouch! It doesn’t sound very kind and courteous: not very thoughtful or nice!

    So, maybe there is more to WWJD (What Would Jesus Do?) than we’ve been led to believe. Maybe we shouldn’t worry so much about being nice, being liked, acting like genteel Americans. Maybe we ought to be more honest and forthright about the things that really matter. Maybe we should be more willing to hurt some feelings, step on some toes, show tough love to those in sin.

    Maybe we should be more Christ-like.
     
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  2. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Here is a good example that shows were being a good Catholic is not all about being nice, but being honest and throwing Light in some very,very dark places.

     
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  3. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Piers Paul Read, in his excellent non-fiction book 'Hell and Other Destinations', clearly demonstrates that nobody else in Scripture came anywhere near Our Lord in frequency of mention of Hell and its fires. His book, and this theme in particular, did me a whole lot of good. Frankly, it frightened the s@#t out of me, in the best possible way. I would never allow myself to forget that perspective on Jesus Christ. You mention C S Lewis; in one of his science fiction novels, he uses the word 'NICE' as an acronym for the absolutely evil, masonic-type instituition which opposes his hero.

    Does threatening millstones around the necks of perverts cast into the sea fit the modern interpretation of 'nice'?

    Too many people nowadays are, as the old saying goes, 'too sweet to be wholesome'.
     
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  4. padraig

    padraig New Member

    There's really beautiful series of animated cartoon topics by CS Lewis on utube. They really get the points across very well.

    C.S Lewis surprises me a little. Apparently Jr Tolkein ; who was a very devout Catholic indeed, a daily mass goer and communicant was the main instrument of converting Cs Lewis. That being so it is a surprise that he choose to become a Anglican rather than a Catholic. But then again Anglicanism back then was at least Christian; its not now.

     
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  5. padraig

    padraig New Member

    A priest told me a funny thing one time about confession. He said that there are two kinds of people who come to the Sacrament. There are those who come in , tell their sins, get the blessing and leave.

    Which doesn't take long.

    Then there are those who come in , tell their sins and then explain at length why they weren't really sins in the first place.

    ..and that this takes a very,very long time indeed.:);)

    Matthew 21:31

    Which of those two did the will of his father?” They said unto Him, “The first.” Jesus said unto them, “Verily I say unto you, that the publicans and the harlots go into the Kingdom of God before you.


     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
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  6. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Well, Lewis was a Belfast Protestant. It would have been emotionally and culturally extremely difficult for him to go the whole hog. However, he became very much an Anglo-Catholic in his beliefs and practice and went to their version of 'Confession' and the like. I have a vague memory that he wouldn't have been a hundred miles away from our notion of Transubstantiation. He was certainly more Christian than most Catholics nowadays.

    He'd be my vote for Irishman of the twentieth century.
     
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  7. Frankly

    Frankly New Member

    Agreed...

    From any attempting to thwart and parry constructive critique - given as a spiritual work of Mercy - one hears complaints of being, "Judgemental" and "UnMerciful"

    "After all, Jesus' Love is unconditional!", they'll say... ​

    RECALL: To those Leaders whom Jesus knew should have been Obedient to God yet weren't? - Jesus was certainly no 'effete cosmic marshmallow'.. .

    IS THIS NICE? {Abridged}

    Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men, for you yourselves do not enter in
    Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: because you devour the houses of widows, praying long prayers. For this you shall receive the greater judgment.
    Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you go round about the sea and the land to make one proselyte; and when he is made,

    you make him the child of hell twofold more than yourselves.
    Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you tithe mint, and anise, and cummin, and have left the weightier things of the law; judgment, and mercy, and faith.
    Blind guides, who strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel.
    Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you make clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but within you are full of rapine and uncleanness.
    Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you are like white tombs, which outwardly appear to men beautiful,

    but within are full of dead men's bones, and of all filthiness.
    You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    At JUDGEMENT .. Jesus shall say to the Goats whom failed to Obey God's Command:

    Then Jesus will say to the Goats on His left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
    For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in,
    I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

    “They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?

    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
     
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  8. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I remember reading somewhere that for the first three centuries of Christianity the Cross was not used as a symbol.

    Why? Because it was thought just too awful to contemplate. Folks at that period of the Roman Empire had first hand experience of the Crucifixation and it was just a big turn off. It was just so terrible.

    I heard Jim Cavaziel say recently that Mel Gibson had decided to considerably tone down what actually happened at the Passion because it would also turn folks off. For Isiah describes Jesus during the Passion as a , 'Worm and no man'. In others word Jesus was in such a state that it would be very,very difficult to relate to Him as a fellow human being, He was in such a State.

    A human pulp.

    The current Leadership of the Church and most of the Protestant Sects want basically to create a false Church was is best described as Christ without the Cross. Even though of course without the Cross there is no Salvation.

    The Cathechism of this New False Church can be described in tow brief sentences.

    Everyone in the world is nice.

    So we need to be nice to everyone.

    That's a deep as it goes and as deep as it is ever going to get.

    Nice.

    Yuk.

     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
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  9. AED

    AED Powers

    Bishop Sheen has a wonderful talk about this. "Come down from that cross and then we will believe in You." He said that has been the cry through the ages until now. Come down off the cross! But just as you say--no cross no salvation. When the VII crowd took over and removed the tabernacle to the side or to a hidden chapel and stopped the Rosary and devotions to the Blessed Mother the other thing they emphasized was the Resurrection. No more suffering Christ. And no talk of "offering up". And no kneeling. I remember a priest telling us back then we didnt need to kneel anymore because we were a resurrection people. Sigh.
     
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  10. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Yes we have a huge examples of come down from the Cross in the Church now.

    Come down from Clerical Celibacy.

    Come down from protesting abortion.

    Come down from fasting.

    Come down from deep, long Traditional Liturgy.

    Come down from saying much of our modern culture is depraved.

    Come down from setting standards.

    Come down from standing up to other religions and saying they are wrong and false.

    It's always come down from the Cross. It's never about going up and joining Jesus dying there. Never ever.

    It's all about being nice people with nice manners. This is what False Mercy is all about .

    Being nice.

     
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  11. DesertStar7

    DesertStar7 Archangels

    "Nice" can be evil, when it indirectly aids and abets evil.

    We've a long-time friend who is "nice" to again enable his wife's alcoholism. He's also "nice" in wanting Open Borders because of USA's past history (how will his pretty young daughters fare?).

    Communists / Socialists use "be nice" guilt induction to crack peoples' common sense, to pressure them into danger and ruin.

    Etc.
     
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  12. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I would imagine at night time, when they had time to think about all that Jesus had said and done during the day, the Apostles were often left tearing their hair out thinking about events over the course of the day.

    It might have made them even more uncomfortable if they'd known they were all going to die the same kind of terrible death He would for following Him.

    Our Lady too was one tough Lady. She followed her Son with eyes wide open and never even blinked.

    Very,very tough indeed. No pink cloud religion there.
     
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  13. AED

    AED Powers

    When people want to Our Lady to be seen as just "nice" I wonder what they make of "Who is she arrising--fair as the moon. Bright as the sun. More terrible than an army in battle array."
    And Our Lord as a wuss or a hippie? Check out the shroud of Turin. That was a rugged muscular man.
     
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  14. padraig

    padraig New Member

    This is why young people and others flee from the Church on droves.

    Theologically as the Spanish would put it, our Cojones have fallen off. We have defenestrated Faith. Made it a Eunuch.

    People don't like Eunuchs. Why should they?
     
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  15. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

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