Wars and rumors of wars on the TLM and Summorum Pontificum”?

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by BrianK, May 26, 2021.

  1. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Thank you, Brian. I must admit I hesitate in this regard. I deeply respect the TLM, Its beauty and Its antiquity. Did I not cast aside in good conscience Pope Francis' urging of all Catholics to "take the jab"!? Do I not deeply regret his firing of Swiss Guard who refused the vaccine? While respecting those who chose the vaccine due to the possibility of losing their employment, I do believe they exposed themselves to ongoing serious health issues. But simply put, the vaccine is evil and was propagated by evil creators.

    Is the TLM issue in a similar sphere?

    Perhaps as a deacon serving in a Novus Ordo parish, I do not wish to think of myself as "locked into" a Grade B liturgy or missing graces I might otherwise treasure at a TLM? After all, I have sincerely experienced growth in my spiritual life without the beauty of weekly attendance at the Mass of All Ages.

    If my family has remained faithful without the TLM: does one's love for it necessitate rebellion against Church authority? This is the core question.

    Or on a deeper level, does the reality of the sublime heritage of the Latin Mass demand all Catholics to come to its defense?

    Ah, therein lies the rub!!

    O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to Thee!
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2023
    Clare A, Mary's child, AED and 4 others like this.
  2. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

    :love: Thank you Mario, from another faithful Norvus Ordo parishioner.
    Truly the TLM is full of richness, but not having one available to attend, I personally find the richness and beauty in the Norvus Ordo.
    Clare A, Byron, Sam and 2 others like this.
  3. AED

    AED Powers

    I agree. I have never been blessed with being able to attend the TLM. Closest is 70 miles away.:( But I have received many many graces from faithful attendance at the NO. A priest from FSSP reassured me many years ago that it is Mass. It is Jesus present on the altar and I must have no scruples about attending it. Sadly friends I had who were committed TLM goers have since become sedevavNtists. We live in very hard and dangerous times.
    Clare A, Byron, Sam and 2 others like this.
  4. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Thank you, Mario.
    I’m not on a guilt trip. I love Jesus, the Mass in my parish down the street, and my dedicated pastor and deacons.
    Sam, Mary's child and AED like this.
  5. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    In all honesty, I have two diocesan TLMs, one religious, and one SSPX TLM all within reasonable driving distance. However, I attend a very reverent Novus Ordo the vast majority of the time. I first sought out the TLM when I lived in my home diocese because there was SO much liturgical abuse in the NO masses and hetodoxy in the homilies. It drove me absolutely crazy. I’d get so mad I couldn’t go to communion. I certainly didn’t go to the TLM because I “love Latin” or out of “nostalgia.”

    Where I live now the Novus Ordo masses are very reverent with no liturgical abuse. One of them is said Ad Orientem with communion on the tongue at the altar rail ONLY administered by priests and deacons. No liturgical abuse of always having recourse to EMHCs. Of course, offering the TLM also has made these priests’ NO masses improve by orders of magnitude.

    But the TLM should be available in EVERY parish worldwide for those who prefer it. And yes, it’s a hill worth dying on.
    Byron, Ananchal, Sam and 1 other person like this.
  6. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Well, I'm eternally grateful we still have Mass, period.
    Ananchal, Sam, Jo M and 4 others like this.
  7. Mario

    Mario Powers


    Having weighed options, we should defend such a hill! We are all Catholics.
    Clare A, Byron, Sam and 2 others like this.
  8. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Don’t forget that God has allowed this for a reason and a season.
  9. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    Only in His Permissive Will. The suppression of the TLM is an incontrovertible evil, one that must be resisted, even while knowing Christ is Truly Present at both masses.
    garabandal likes this.
  10. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Of course, in His permissive will.
    Sam and BrianK like this.
  11. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    And a belated Happy Birthday Btw!
    AED likes this.
  12. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    :) Thanks!
    AED likes this.
  13. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

  14. AED

    AED Powers

  15. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    Yep. One of the many reasons I won’t give an inch on this issue.
    AED likes this.
  16. AED

    AED Powers

    I tremble for those who have tinkered and are tinkering. May God send them the graces needed to save their souls and may he do the same for us! No wonder St Paul warned us to work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
    Sam, Jo M, BrianK and 2 others like this.
  17. garabandal

    garabandal Powers


    Sam, Jo M, BrianK and 1 other person like this.
  18. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

  19. Mario

    Mario Powers


    I claim my desire for the TLM from a position of love for continuity and love of beauty. Would the Church cease to be Catholic if the TLM was suppressed. No. But perhaps some here would disagree with my assessment.

    Lord have Mercy.
    Sam, Mary's child and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  20. Mario

    Mario Powers

    By the way, Brian, at our recent family reunion, my oldest son, Fr. Benjamin, made a cogent argument to myself and his brother, Christopher, that the TLM was abrogated in the 1969 document, Missale Romanum. In the language highlighted below, it is obvious that it is the Missal in good standing (TLM) that is being "revised and enriched and updated". With no animosity, Fr. Ben stated what is revised and enriched and updated is thereby abrogated. He commented that Pius V had used absolute language of his day to emphasize that liturgies that were over 200 years old were defunct. Below, the language also offers no room for exception. So sayeth he.

    ...Since that time there has grown and spread among the Christian people the liturgical renewal which, according to Pius XII, Our predecessor of venerable memory, seems to show the signs of God's providence in the present time, a salvific action of the Holy Spirit in His Church. (2) This renewal has also shown clearly that the formulas of the Roman Missal ought to be revised and enriched. The beginning of this renewal was the work of Our predecessor, this same Pius XII, in the restoration of the Paschal Vigil and of the Holy Week Rite,(3) which formed the first stage of updating the Roman Missal for the present-day mentality.

    The recent Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, in promulgating the Constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium, established the basis for the general revision of the Roman Missal: in declaring "both texts and rites should be drawn up so that they express more clearly the holy things which they signify";(4) in ordering that "the rite of the Mass is to be revised in such a way that the intrinsic nature and purpose of its several parts, as also the connection between them, can be more clearly manifested, and that devout and active participation by the faithful can be more easily accomplished...

    Fr. Benjamin basically stated that in its wording and in its intent, the Missal of Pius the X is abrogated. I knew that my son is convinced of such, and being his IQ is light years above mine (consistently 1st in his class via Geralyn's genes who was 1st in hers), I decided that I needed to look at the evidence before responding.

    I will soon present my position and conclusion as a reply to this post, and then send it to Fr. Benjamin. Ain't life grand!:ROFLMAO:

Share This Page