Wars and rumors of wars on the TLM and Summorum Pontificum”?

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by BrianK, May 26, 2021.

  1. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Head Cases.
  2. Whatever

    Whatever Archangels

    God has provided for us. We will get the grace we need to persevere if we pray for it. It's part of my nature to want to prepare for the worst while hoping for the best. I never seem to manage to get my preparations right and always end up stressed when things head south. I know that prayer and frequenting the sacraments while we can is key. I just need now to sort out in my mind what is my red line should it come to making a decision about where to attend Mass - a decision which no Catholic should have to make where the Church is not forced underground.

    That German Synodal path is a red flag for me. The Germans have disproportionate influence in the Church. As far as I know, less than 10% of them attend Mass regularly. If the ones calling the shots at the Synodal path are an example of those who practice, the faith is dead in Germany. Faithless people with disproportionate influence could spread their heresy/apostasy relatively easily if they have support in the right places. Letters telling them to slow down are not an example of severity or an intention to exercise authority. Unfortunately, I strongly suspect that the Bishops who prayed around the Pachamama idol in St. Peter's before concelebrating Holy Mass may be quite supportive of what the Germans are doing and may intend it for the universal Church. Warning people not to jump the gun suggests that they only have to wait a while until everyone else is lined up beside them. It doesn't tell them they are going the wrong way and should turn back.

    All very well saying avoid SSPX Masses because their status is not canonical. The priest in the videos I posted above has full canonical status, in full Communion with his Bishop who is in full Communion with the Pope. What use is his canonical status to Catholics living in his parish who believe that Holy Mass isn't about play acting? I didn't post the video with the clown. If his performance happened during Mass, the whole shebang is a farce.
  3. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Ubi papa, ibi ecclesia.

    Where the Pope is, there is the Church.

    I would be very careful of suggesting anything different.
    Even in these very,very difficult times.

    Matthew 16:18

    Peter's Confession of Christ
    …17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”…

    Last edited: Aug 28, 2021
    Mary's child and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  4. Whatever

    Whatever Archangels

    I'm not suggesting anything different. Actually, I think that Scripture says where the Bishop is, there is the Church. But the Bishop needs to be in communion with the Pope. That's Church teaching which I believe with all my heart, and I also believe that Pope Francis is a valid Pope because the Bishops tell us he is.

    The whole shebang I referred to was what was happening in that parish.
    Michael Pio and padraig like this.
  5. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    Michael Pio likes this.
  6. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    Simply attending an SSPX chapel out of necessity in these times of chaos and turmoil does NOT suggest “anything different.”

    Fortunately I just found a Ukrainian Greek Catholic parish in Front Royal Virginia, so if push comes to shove, I need not make recourse to the local SSPX chapel. I went to Eastern Rite churches for several years in the past and could easily do so again.

    However, given the current situation in the Church, I would strenuously caution anyone here from further denigrating the SSPX!

    It may be the ONLY place of refuge and sanity some of our readers and lurkers can find in the coming storm, and the Vatican has CLEARLY stated that one may satisfy their Sunday obligation by doing so, without sinning. Look it up if you doubt this.
    Suzanne and Michael Pio like this.
  7. Whatever

    Whatever Archangels

    It should be a last resort. It's such a pity that Archbishop LeFebvre consecrated those Bishops. Things could have been so different had he not been persuaded to do that.
  8. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I never denigrated the SSPX. I simply pointed out that they are not canonically connected to anything or anyone in the Catholic Church. That’s the truth. You are entitled to your opinion.
  9. thomas21

    thomas21 Archangels

    I don’t think Francis is a fruit of the council itself but a fruit of the so-called spirit of Vatican II. Vatican II did not call for all the crazy things the bishops did. For example, mass was to be held in Latin. Francis, I think, favors a hermeneutic of rupture.
    Michael Pio and Clare A like this.
  10. Clare A

    Clare A Archangels

    I would say that Pope Francis is a product of modernism, and modernism has been with us since the end of the 19th century. However only since Vat 2 has the hierarchy openly colluded with or even promoted modernist thinkers. Perhaps this would have happened anyway even if the Council had not happened. The secular world has changed enormously in the past 50 years. Social attitudes reflect a vastly different society.

    Some years ago a catechetical book came out for use in Catholic schools in the uk. It had an imprimatur. Concerned parents sent it to Cardinal Ratzinger at the CDF and he summoned the bishop responsible and told him it would not do. The book, which was rife with heresies, was withdrawn. The author was furious that she wouldn’t be getting all the money she was expecting.

    When a bishop can permit and even authorise heresy disguised as Catholicism we are into new territory.

    Ironically, as we know, Vatican II never called for any abuses but was seized on by a minority to promote their modernist agenda. If it is true that Bergoglio was a member of the St Gallen mafia, then he is among the destroyers. Even if he wasn’t, he was their choice for Pope.
    Ananchal and Michael Pio like this.
  11. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    In all honesty. I could never, ever sit through a mass with the abuses demonstrated in those videos . It is a absolute insult to my Lord and Savior …it makes me so sad for my church that these evil doers have rising to authority status….and yes, technically they may wield power to allow these abuses, but I’ll never participate in any abuse such as these.
    I also do not believe that Our dear Lord will abandon us to the wolves . We may need to leave our comfort zone to participate in a legitimate mass, but it will exist. We need only to remember that the gates of hell will NOT prevail against our faith, hence our church. Churches that abuse the faith will not prevail…God will not allow it.
    As Noah build the ark, so will God raise up a new Noah to corral the faithful while the unfaithful drown in their self inflicted abuses. We need only read the signs of the times because those times are upon us. I’ll be waiting on and watching for that ark if and when we need it. Our world is in confusion and chaos…not just the church. Our faith will be tested…praying we all pass the test.
    Jo M, ellen, Mary's child and 2 others like this.
  12. Whatever

    Whatever Archangels

    All I want to know at this stage is can anyone tell us with certainty that the Jews will convert before or after the appearance of the AC. The reason I ask is that some early Fathers of the Church believed that the AC will be Jewish from the tribe of Dan. People with knowledge of Scriptural passages about the end times say that there is a short period (is it 45 days?) between the defeat of the AC and the end of the world. We know that Jesus won't return until the Jews acknowledge Him as Lord. Could that 45 days be time given by God to the chosen people to get themselves baptised after they realise that the AC is not the Messiah? Wouldn't want to mistake the AC for just another tyrant because I'm waiting for all Israel to be converted.

    Meanwhile, I hope Brian sees the tweet in this link. I thought it was funny and have a feeling that he might get a laugh out of it: https://twitter.com/CatholicSat/status/1431759779840634880
    Ananchal and BrianK like this.
  13. Michael Pio

    Michael Pio Archangels

    Thank you Julia for your kind and thoughtful and deep comments.
    Beth B likes this.
  14. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    I’m no religious scholar…nor versed in the complicated doctrinal matters of the faith like so many here. I have only a very simple faith.My very limited knowledge of the AC is one who will be thought to be the answer to all of the worlds ills and people will see them as our answer….” Savior “.
    To my eyes , this is what we need to guard against, because it will be a false confidence. Feel free to correct me, but if things continue as is, we need to be watchful here as we are in need of and are looking for answers. It may be tempting to view that person as our answer, but he may be just the opposite.
    Mary's child likes this.
  15. thomas21

    thomas21 Archangels

    I think all people will soon see the cross in the sky, including Jews. Many people will convert, but some will insist it was an illusion or something. Or maybe some people will springboard from it, asserting a New Age doctrine, having experienced the love of God. Many NDE people interpret NDEs to mean that God doesn’t care what religion you practice.

    These are just my speculations.
    Michael Pio likes this.
  16. After Pope Francis got elected, I read a story that he once worked as a Club Bouncer, it is very odd and unbelievable to me then that a Bouncer would receive enlightenment to enter a Seminary. I just justified it that maybe God works in mysterious ways...
    Clare A likes this.
  17. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    well, that explains a lot:ROFLMAO::):D:p
  18. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    [31] Be not solicitous therefore, saying, What shall we eat: or what shall we drink, or wherewith shall we be clothed? ... [32] For after all these things do the heathens seek. For your Father knoweth that you have need of all these things. ... [33] Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you. ... [34] Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof.

    Matthew 6: 31-33
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  19. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

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  20. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    I was a bouncer too in high school and college, but I’m not sure that qualifies or disqualifies me for being an MOG moderator?

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