Vassula receives Holy Communion for the first time

Discussion in 'Video Blogs' started by davidtlig, May 19, 2016.

  1. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    For heaven's sake, he didn't.

    So, you can't point me to any authoritative notice from the Church reversing the decision of the CDF, otherwise you would do so.

    Some here have cited the length of time it took for St. Faustina's diary to be approved. Did St. Faustina travel from diocese to diocese promoting herself? The answer is no. Please don't use St. Faustina to validate the actions and messages of this lady.

    You believe what you want. I would appreciate it, however, if you would have the grace to accept that those of us who prefer to listen to the CDF rather than you and the rest of the lady's devotees are not some breed of lesser Catholic. I will follow the advice of the CDF. Meanwhile, I have no more to contribute to this thread and prefer to avoid reading any more about this woman. From what I have read here, those promoting her would be better served asking people to pray for her.
     
  2. I am a convert to Catholicism. I was baptized Romanian Orthodox. When I converted, I had to make my first Confession to a Catholic priest, and then make a Profession of Faith in the Catholic Church, and then, only then, could I make my First Holy Communion. I was 15 years old at the time. I had to take catechism lessons from the parish priest for several months beforehand. There are certain canons that need to be followed here. I am upset that folks think it is so nice and "ecumenical" for Vassula to receive the Eucharist in the Catholic Church.
     
  3. I would appreciate it, however, if you would have the grace to accept that those of us who prefer to listen to the CDF rather than you and the rest of the lady's devotees are not some breed of lesser Catholic.

    Stop with the straw men and projecting what you wished had occurred actually did occur.

    Please don't use St. Faustina to validate the actions and messages of this lady.

    I'll use the best examples for comparison that I wish especially those that fit. Different time obviously and completely different situations of callings and living situations. But the comparison of an original lack of understanding of their unique messages/purposes in each case can certainly apply.

    Did St. Faustina travel from diocese to diocese promoting herself?

    Those who actually are acquainted with Vassula's mission know of her own suffering if people pay their attention to her....why she often leaves the scene once she gives the messages and purpose of those messages, always drawing others to life in God. How uncharitable to even spread the idea that she has any intention of promoting herself. Pope Francis has stressed the evil involved in gossip.

    From what I have read here, those promoting her would be better served asking people to pray for her.

    And, btw, those who are more familiar with Vassula and her messages as well as the suffering she endures to continue to give her life for her love of Jesus actually do pray for her.....probably though with other intentions than you infer.

     
  4. Sam

    Sam Powers


    Orthodox Christians may receive communion in a Catholic church. I copy and paste part of an answer from EWTN below.

    To formally switch rites in a permanent manner requires a formal procedure.

    The question is somewhat diverse for the case of Orthodox Churches, which are not in full communion with Rome but which enjoy the apostolic succession and all seven sacraments. While full communion is lacking, the Catholic Church no longer considers these Churches as being in a formal schism or as being excommunicated.

    From the Catholic standpoint, a member of the faithful who is unable to attend Mass because there is no Catholic celebration available, may, if he so wishes, attend and receive Communion at an Orthodox Divine Liturgy.

    Likewise, an Orthodox Christian in a similar situation is allowed to receive Communion and some other sacraments in any Catholic rite. Such an attendance is always optional and is never obligatory, not even in order to fulfill a festive precept.

    Eastern Rites and Orthodox
     
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  5. except she didn't know it was Holy Communion
     
  6. Harper

    Harper Guest

    Let me throw another log on this fire. Here is the testimony of Fr. Mitch Pacwa. I don't think I need list his credentials. Fr. Pacwa was contacted by Vassula and asked to review the many volumes of her work. He did and came to a negative conclusion -- just like Cardinal Ratzinger and Cardinal Levada.

    Fr. Pacwa then received a threat from Vassula's advisor, who warned him against publishing his conclusions:

    Vassula had asked me to examine all five volumes of her published notebooks for problematic statements. She suggested that notes could be added to later editions to correct any confusing or imprecise statements about Christ. I read her books, wrote my notes, and in the fall of 1992 sent them to her spiritual advisor, Fr. Michael O’Carroll, C.S.Sp., for his response.

    I then received a call from Fr. O’Carroll, who was then promoting a trip by Vassula. Father O’Carroll strongly suggested I not publish my findings. He said I showed “not one single sign of Christian charity” in my comments, that I ignored the “immensity of her conversion” with its prayer life and apostolate, and that I applied a piecemeal approach to Vassula’s writings in my analysis.

    What I particularly did not like about Fr. O’Carroll’s subsequent letter was its spiritual threat (which also appears in Vassula’s writings): “Since your article and the distress, the real hurt, it inflicted on Vassula, God the Father has spoken to her. He is very severe on those who oppose her. This [book] will be published. If you go ahead with your article, and people apply this to you, they will not challenge Vassula’s right to defend herself and they may think much on the One who takes up her defence.” Fr. O’Carroll also informed me that I “am meant for higher and greater things than this.” I wrote this article to correct Vassula and to warn her followers of serious misstatements of theology, allegedly authored by Jesus. The truth of the gospel is my sole concern, and I trust that is the case with everyone involved."


    Read more: http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=08-01-017-f#ixzz49Thce1D8
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2016
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  7. Harper

    Harper Guest

    And more on threats. The website "infovassula" closed after a second lawsuit. The website's owner won the first lawsuit, but simply did not have the money needed to defend against the second onslaught. This information is from Catholic Culture. http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=14282

    "In 2002, Maria Laura Pio, a former follower of Rydén's teachings, published a website critical of Rydén. The website hosted a collection of documents and interviews that were critical of Rydén's teachings.[53] Niels Christian Hvidt cited the website in his book Christian Prophecy: The Post-Biblical Tradition. In May 2012 the website was closed because of the threat of legal action from Rydén's attorneys, who argued that the term "Vassula" was trademarked, that a website named "infovassula" must belong to Rydén.[54] Pio announced on 3 May 2012, "I am going to close the website at the end of May and unfortunately, since I do not have the means financially nor mentally to face another lawsuit, no matter how ridiculous it is, I am constrained to hand over the domain name to Vassula in June 2012."[55] In 2013, the Catholic research group Gruppo di Ricerca e Informazione Socio-Religiosa (GRIS) obtained permission from Pio to remount the critical website under a new domain: www.pseudomystica.info."
     
  8. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Well, I think we are in for a long hot summer if Harper is determined to search out all the criticisms of Vassula over the past 30 years!

    I copy, below, the beginning of a detailed response to Fr Pacwa by Fr Michal Kaszowski. The full response is at http://www.davidtlig.org.uk/pacwa.html I should also point out that Fr Pacwa is no lover of contemporary private revelation, including Medjugorje.


    This article by Fr. Michal Kaszowski deals with many of the objections raised to the writings of Vassula. In particular he deals with the objections raised by by Fr Mitch Pacwa.


    Replies to the accusations of there being trinitarian heresies in Vassula's writings

    Let us start by reviewing the various accusations put forward against the messages in 'True Life in God'. We shall try to find answers to these and at the same time we shall analyse the various biased methods applied, which if used with even the most authentic theological work, and even with the Sacred Scriptures themselves, would certainly result in the 'discovery' of errors therein.

    A method which enables heresies to be found anywhere

    Although the teaching on the Holy Trinity in 'True Life in God' is the same as in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Vassula Ryden and her writings often become the object of sharp criticism and accusations and allegations of heresy. Thus some theologians accuse her writings of portraying the Persons of the Holy Trinity as identical, and thus expounding heretical trinitarian teaching.

    But is it really true that 'True Life in God' is in opposition to the dogmatic teaching of the Church, according to which there exists a real distinction between the Divine Persons? (see CCC 253, 254, 255)

    A careful study of the writings of Vassula, and the analysis of that which she herself speaks about in her numerous witnessings, in no way at all warrants such judgment, since in 'True Life in God' the three Divine Persons reveal themselves as really distinct from one another.

    This real distinction of Persons becomes apparent in the fact that the Divine Persons speak separately. First and foremost however – and surely this is the most important point – the relation of origin of the Divine Persons, through which they are really distinct from each other, is never questioned in these writings (see CCC 254). Thus the Son does not identify with the Father as a Person, because He is never described as He "who generates", but as He "who is begotten".6 Similarly, the Holy Spirit does not identify Himself with the Father or with the Son as a Divine Person, because nowhere is He called "the One who generates" (that is, the Father), nor is He called "He who is begotten" (that is, the Son). He also is sent by the Father 7 and by the Son 8. In this act of being sent His separateness is made apparent, because no one can send himself, but a separate person.

    http://www.davidtlig.org.uk/pacwa.html
     
  9. Harper

    Harper Guest

    David,

    You help make my point. It would take a hot summer and beyond to list all the criticisms of Vassula!

    Doesn't Fr. Pacwa's account of being threatened before he published a critique of Vassula bother you at all? And if not, why not?

    The threat allegedly came as a message from God: “Since your article and the distress, the real hurt, it inflicted on Vassula, God the Father has spoken to her. He is very severe on those who oppose her."

    I reject that as the authentic voice of God.

    If Fr. Pacwa is so awful and so obviously biased, why was he selected to review and comment on Vassula's works?

    If Fr. Pacwa is so biased, why did he go to hear Charlie Johnston? Fr. Pacwa hasn't published anything on Charlie, but he attended a Johnston meeting and was friendly.

    My vacation is over and I must go to work! I will look on this thread from time to time.
     
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  10. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    I would reject it as well but what you quote as a message allegedly coming from God was not so. You have simply misread Fr Pacwa's article at this point. Perhaps, when you get back home from work you might be advised to spend some time reading the article I posted.

    Fr O'Carroll, who died many years ago, was certainly a staunch supporter of Vassula and was not afraid to warn people of the spiritual dangers of attacking the work of the Holy Spirit. You can view a video of a homily by Fr O'Carroll in 1996 at


    He was also a great supporter of Medjugorje.
     
  11. I'll take Fr. O'Carroll and his expertise and much longer history in these particular matters over Fr. "Mitch" who most of the time refuses to discuss any kind of private revelation other than perhaps the safety of Lourdes or Fatima....and who won't touch the obvious fruits of Medjugorje with a ten foot pole. Plain logic says don't go to someone with an already established bias in this category for any objective summation unless you want a biased opinion. And Fr. Mitch at least at the time did not even take into consideration the ongoing dialog (to this day) between Vassula and the Vatican/Pope/s. He perhaps needs to know that no man is an island unto himself. So many Marian experts of long notice always being left out in such discernment is purposeful neglect....like going to the dentist for heart surgery!
     
  12. Harper

    Harper Guest

    Of course you will take Fr. O'Carroll, he agrees with your position! But try your best to dismiss Fr. Pacwa, he remains well-respected. Why did Vassula ask him to go over the volumes of her work and give his opinion?

    Do you disagree with Fr. Pacwa's characterization of the response he received from Fr. O'Carroll a "spiritual threat?"

    Also, how do you feel about the "lawfare" waged against online websites that carry information critical of Vassula's work? Can you imagine a St. Faustina ever repeatedly suing her critics to force them to close down or face bankruptcy?

    The more I read about Vassula, the more I am reminded of Scientology.
     
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  13. Of course you will take Fr. O'Carroll, he agrees with your position!

    Except that's not what I wrote or the reason I gave for what I wrote.

    Ooh! as "spiritual threat". Some people, esp. when they are given the role to lead others with at least common sense, should grow up.

    If this is the first time you've encountered various websites that disagree, even vehemently, you've missed torrents of same from all sides on all topics and personages. BTW, Faustina was a nun with a vow of poverty...ha!
     
  14. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"


    This is no good at all. Cant you give us your weekends Harper?(y)
     
  15. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    This post says everything I need to hear when it comes to expressing what is so wrong with Vassula.
     
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  16. So you don't go to the source when discerning a particular private revelation....you rely on hearsay? This is "lite" compared to the various forums on Medjugorje or Garabandal....and they're better known with far more history and writings to prove the good fruits. If that is your criteria I guess you don't care for those either.
     
  17. Harper

    Harper Guest

    Always remember: This is what we are talking about with Holy Communion. BODY, BLOOD, SOUL AND DIVINITY.
     
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  18. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Indeed, Harper!

    Here is a quote from True Life in God:

    come, since many of you have wandered from the rightful path and fear to receive Me, keeping your sins secret in your breast, liberate yourselves by going to confession; repent truly and fast so that you receive Me in purity and in holiness; My door is always opened to all of you, beloved; I am known not to be insensitive to the poor and to the sick man's needs; so do not put your God to the test and do not doubt of My Infinite Mercy;

    yes, the instruments I use to transmit My words to you are poor, unworthy and common; those whom the world think common and contemptible are the ones that I choose - those who are nothing at all to show up those who are everything; 1 Wisdom is given to mere children and not to those that call themselves wise; hear Me, Wisdom shall remain a riddle to those who boast and call themselves virtuous and holy; I shall indeed destroy the wisdom of the wise and the more severe will be the sentence they will receive;


    http://www.tlig.org/en/messages/547/
     
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  19. Harper

    Harper Guest

    David,

    A question: Do you have the permission of your local bishop to run an internet "ministry" promoting the work of Vassula Ryden? You are attempting to proselytize people all over the world. But your work originates in a particular jurisdiction; you yourself are subject to lawful authority. I note the website and also the YouTube channel or posts.

    Do you accept the Notification and the congregation's conclusion that Vassula's writings are private meditations, not Heavenly messages?
     
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  20. Harper

    Harper Guest

    David,

    It is highly unusual for a mystic to claim a trademark on her name. It is highly unusual for a mystic to repeatedly sue critics. (She lost the first suit against one group and immediately brought another, forcing them out of business.)

    Vassula's foundation is set up in Switzerland, a country not known for financial transparency. I cannot find financial reports online for her foundation (and I know how to search). Most religious foundations make that information readily available.

    Father Mitch Pacwa has published a credible story of receiving threats when he came to a negative conclusion on Vassula's work. This, after he was personally selected by Vassula to review her writing.

    Don't these facts give you pause? I find them disturbing.
     

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