Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by Fede, Nov 17, 2020.

  1. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Thank you for posting the link to that article from COG for Life.

    Did you read this comment from a person named James Salerno?

    "Can you please engage Trent Horn and Catholic Answers in some fashion on this. They’re advising people that it’s completely acceptable to take at least Modernas vaccine with no caveat of grave cause and discussion with a Holy priest."
    The comment surprised me, especially in light of what the COG article says about Moderna using aborted fetal cells at all stages although there are no aborted cells in the final product. I think that there has been a change of personnel in the Vatican's department dealing with these issue and the new set-up is wish washy on abortion, so perhaps that explains why Trent Horn is saying that the Moderna vaccine is completely acceptable.

    The DNA altering aspect is a separate issue than the aborted fetal cells.

    Think I'll give the vaccines a miss altogether.
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  2. Sunnyveil

    Sunnyveil Archangels

    Agree 100% with every wise word you said.
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  3. non sum dignus

    non sum dignus Archangels

  4. non sum dignus

    non sum dignus Archangels

    The question has to be asked....

    If an ethical vaccine is proven to be extremely effective and safe.....

    Would it be sinful to refuse the vaccine if it could save other's lives?

    Would we have a duty to accept a safe, ethical, effective vaccine if the virus mutates and was killing 10 or 100x the number of people and we have families who depend on us?

    As citizens we may have the right to refuse. It is an entirely different question if we as Christians have the duty to accept it.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
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  5. andree

    andree Archangels

    This is a big topic isn't it? Shouldn't we also apply the same rules in this domain as with sin, that it requires full knowledge and consent to be a sin?

    Who supplies the "proof" exactly? The media, the state, the medical agencies, the WHO, the Gates Foundation?

    The problem is that corruption has entered everything and the people have lost faith in governing authorities, so how can we blame people for shunning a "duty" if their decisions are based on other data? There have been rumors for decades about the elite not vaccinating. There was a study years ago, and I think it's this one that looked at over 6000 schools in California, that showed that vaccine exemptions based on personal beliefs are more common among the wealthiest population with children in private schools. What do they know that the poorer less educated population does not know?

    I admit that I am perturbed on this subject at the moment because several very pious people that I know seem completely oblivious to the issues going on all around and I don't know what to make of it. I mean how can people who are so prayerful and devoted to Our Lady be "blind" to the signs of the times? I put "blind" in quotes because I'm not sure if it's blindness or just complete trust in the Lord. A very prayerful couple that I know think that the Church is handling this crisis the right way and they have no issues with anything (masks, gel, absence of masses, lockdowns and its consequences). They believe in Garabandal and yet can't see that communism is entering our society boldly in real-time. They are hunkering down waiting for the vaccine. I've even heard of an exorcist who is waiting for the vaccine too and seems to know nothing about the bigger picture. How can this be?

    I don't believe that St Joseph and Mary spent their time discussing the evils of Herod, yet when his actions became a threat to them, they were warned and escaped. The pious people that I know are perhaps living their faith in a similar way.

    Others may not agree, but right now I am thinking that there are probably many different paths that Christians can take on this subject and be faithful to the Lord, but whatever we choose must be done with love.
  6. AED

    AED Powers

    (n)(n) not buying it. Very fishy.
    If they force it....then its something more than a vaccine. Then what?
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  7. Sunnyveil

    Sunnyveil Archangels

    These statements are too hypothetical

    How long would it take to know the vaccine is extremely effective and safe? Gee, we're starting to discover that many childhood vaccines given ove rthe last 25 years can have serious side effects likely causing cancer, permanent neurological damage, and autoimmune disorders.

    Would it be sinful if you could save other's lives? What if it potentially harms the vaccinated? As we know from medical journal articles the flu vaccine makes people more susceptible to other viruses. So what if you get it and die from a worse virus?

    Safe, ethical, effective vaccine? How long would that take to know? This virus will be long gone as it will take decades to know whether it's safe.

    I see zero Christian duty to accept something we really CAN'T know the effects of.

    Government health organizations are using this line of reasoning (e.g. the good of the other) to manipulate and shame people into getting a vaccine. Just like the unproven, very unhealthy masks
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  8. Sunnyveil

    Sunnyveil Archangels

    This is more likely the truth and worth a listen:

    Dr. Roger Hodkinson, [former] Chairman of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons committee in Ottawa, CEO of a large private medical laboratory in Edmonton, Alberta and Chairman of a Medical Biotechnology company SELLING THE COVID-19 TEST:

    “There is utterly unfounded public hysteria driven by the media and politicians. This is the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on an unsuspected public. There is absolutely nothing that can be done to contain this virus. This is nothing more than a bad flu season. It’s politics playing medicine and that’s a very dangerous game. There is no action needed….Masks are utterly useless. There is no evidence whatsoever they are even effective. It is utterly ridiculous seeing these unfortunate, uneducated people walking around like lemmings obeying without any evidence. Social distancing is also useless….. Positive testing results do NOT indicate clinical infection. It is simply driving public hysteria and ALL testing should STOP immediately….using the province’s own statistics the risk of death under 65 is 1 in 300,000. The scale of the response is utterly ridiculous…all kinds of business closures, suicides …. you’re being led down the garden path.”
  9. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

  10. non sum dignus

    non sum dignus Archangels

    I agree with much of what you posted. But just a clarification...full knowledge and consent are required for a sin to be mortal, but partial knowledge and consent are sufficient for a venial sin.
  11. non sum dignus

    non sum dignus Archangels

    I am not arguing with your assessment...Just for the sake of clarity, would you have taken the smallpox vaccine in the 1960s-1980s knowing that 300 million people died of smallpox in the 20th century alone?

    30% of people who contracted it died and many more were disfigured. The vaccine wiped it out completely outside of a few lab incidents.

    As to the virus being long gone before we know if a vaccine is safe....Smallpox lasted a thousand years.

    My personal belief is that the Corona virus was likely man made and released for political purposes.

    If that is true, what would stop the ones responsible from releasing a more devastating virus if this one does not achieve thier goals?
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
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  12. Fede

    Fede Archangels

    I agree. God made our bodies so that they could repair and heal themselves. We see it on our skin when we cut ourselves. Why would we think that the inside of our bodies would not be the same? The problem is we have gone so far in science that we are altering our own bodies and our very constitution with all the medications that only suppress the symptoms but do not cure disease. Then we created the chemicals to kill the bacteria in the soil where we grow our vegetables and that the animals eat from, spraying fields and the air itself to kill insects, and on top of that adding even more chemicals with preservatives, additives and colouring in our food and then since we needed more flavor, created an industry of junk food full of these chemicals that ends up in our water and in the air we breath so that we then need more chemicals to heal ourselves from the damage we've done! What a vicious cycle! A fever means that our body is fighting the invader but we are so use to suppressing it that we think we are doing good by bringing it down. God not only gave us bodies that could heal themselves, but also provided plants that have medicinal qualities to help us. My mom who will be 91 in February has always believed in plants and herbs to treat both the surface and the interior of our bodies. She's told memany times of how when she was growing up they would go pick a particular plant from the fields that grew in the wild to heal certain ailments/sickness. But in the last 100 years humanity has managed to destroy what God gave us to the point that we now have to manufacture vitamins and take because the nutrients aren't there as they use to be.

    There is so much evil.

    This virus...... is it really a virus that came from an animal? I doubt it. And now that they've infected the whole world, they want to heal us? I doubt that too. They have an agenda is what I believe. Maybe those who will take these and who have a strong immune system may be able to tollerate the chemicals in these vaccines (if that's all that's in them and no altering of our DNA) or maybe in 25 years the new generation will have other learning disabilities that we can feel guilty about and responsible for.. or just maybe God will finally intercede and save us from ourselves because it sure looks like its time.. its time He stops us from killing ourselves and everything He's given us, starting with the precious babies in the womb.

    I think about this time we are in and I honestly can't believe I'm living in it. Just so surreal..everything about it is so surreal. May God guide us and protect us and may He show us what's right and what's wrong - the gift to know the difference is so important these days.
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  13. Joan J

    Joan J HolySpiritCome!

    I also found this information on Pfizer's website.

    I do want much more clarification regarding the altering of DNA! Such as, does that relate at all to tracking ability from the coming NWO, prohibition to buy goods & services, travel with evidence of having received vaccine & subsequent boosters? This strikes me on par with fetal lines. It is also a life issue. Trying to gauge if that is the infamous Mark.

    Yet, my understanding is the mark comes AFTER the Warning & antiChrist makes himself known.

    I just don't know. I'm praying for clarity!
  14. Joan J

    Joan J HolySpiritCome!

    I went on each site today-pfizer & modern a. Pfizer used to. As a result, they have found great numbers refusing their vaccines. Because of the great need for such, their site states they did NOT use fetal cells in the development or testing of thus covid. This info was readily available & easy to find directly on their site.

    I did not find the same easy info on Moderna's site. So that verdict (for me) is still out.
  15. Joan J

    Joan J HolySpiritCome!

    Also, from my limited research on AstraZeneca, stay away. I have not gone to their site yet.
  16. non sum dignus

    non sum dignus Archangels

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  17. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    You forgot one very important criterion for a sin to be mortal: it has to be a serious matter. As Sunnyveil said, we won’t know for years the full repercussions of taking this vaccine. It might be a serious matter to TAKE it, for pity’s sake.
    Jo M likes this.
  18. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I remember that Padraig mentioned that once we put vaccine in our bodies, we can’t take it out. Good thing to remember. These vaccines are “unknown quantities.”
    themilitantcatholic, AED and Jo M like this.
  19. Joan J

    Joan J HolySpiritCome!

    I sent Mother Miriam at Holy Family Radio my concerns about the vaccine yesterday. I figure she knows where to dig deeper for info on other aspects of this particular variety, related to the G R.

    She is on the same page with us about such things to come as the Warning.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
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  20. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Always good to get another opinion.
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