Tuam Baby Scandal Ireland

Discussion in 'Ireland' started by Sanctus, Mar 3, 2017.

  1. Sanctus

    Sanctus "Pray, pray ,pray!"

    Looks like the Tuam baby scandal has been reopened. It is ironic on a topic like this that people are saying how the Church also "continues" to have a say in women's "reproductive rights." In England and Wales alone on any given year up to 200,000 children are aborted. Where is the outrage there? Because of the 8th Amendment in Ireland which the Church helped to bring in, tens of thousands of lives have been saved. It seems a bit hypocritical that people are outraged by this...
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
  2. Sanctus

    Sanctus "Pray, pray ,pray!"

    To clarify, there are people who are outraged about the Tuam findings yet at the same time advocate for unrestricted abortion in Ireland, which doesn't make much sense.
     
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  3. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I was just driving in the car and heard this news
    This must have been going on a long time
    Dreadful
    Lord have mercy on us
     
  4. Sanctus

    Sanctus "Pray, pray ,pray!"

    The Church in Ireland and the people of Ireland are both very much in need of prayer at the moment. The media will perpetuate this and drive people further away from the Church. As if there isn't enough of a crisis of the faith in the country as it is:(
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
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  5. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    I was enraged to hear minister Zappone's hypocritical comments on the radio today, virtue-signalling her compassion. All this glib outrage takes no account of the enormous poverty of Ireland at the time and the high child mortality rate which was universal at the time. During epidemics it was vital, in order to prevent further infection, illness and death, to dispose of the bodies of children who had died as promptly and completely as possible. I remember reading at the time that this so-called scandal first emerged, that the mortality rate in this facility was lower than those in typical comparable facilities in much better-resourced New York. The nuns involved surely possessed compassion and treated the children with as much dignity as they could, but as they were short-staffed and under-resourced and since the living children had to be prioritised, there would have been little time for sentiment or standing on ceremony. They were living in the equivalent of a war-zone.
     
  6. Scolaire Bocht

    Scolaire Bocht Archangels

    This was a very mysterious bit of media hype if you follow it.

    The govt set up an inquiry, headed by a former judge, and they released a one page statement saying in very vague general terms that human remains were found at the site, that some, but we don't know how many, were of children and again some or maybe one was dated to the 1950s. They then said they were shocked and put a link to the Minister's statement.

    That doesn't seem like the actions of an independent inquiry at all. How do you use the phrase 'shocked' like that before you have finished your enquiries, or even held any public hearings at all yet?

    And what are they shocked about anyway? Nobody disputes that there are graves at the site, its been recognised as such for decades. Nor is it disputed that the Home had a site for the burial of unbaptised - ie stillborn - babies, which could easily have been there.

    So to find human remains is to tell you nothing about the circumstances of their deaths or indeed burial. For that we would need a lot more detail, which is very much lacking in this one or two page statement.

    It just seems like a media event to be honest and from a certain point of view it has been very successful at that...
     
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  7. Sanctus

    Sanctus "Pray, pray ,pray!"

    What is even more laughable and ironic is that our Minister for Children, Katherine Zappone, is an ardent supporter of abortion and campaigns to have it introduced in Ireland. You couldn't make this stuff up.
     
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  8. Sanctus

    Sanctus "Pray, pray ,pray!"

    Reading some of the articles online, this whole thing seems to be turning into a bit of a witch hunt against Catholics and the Church in Ireland with nonsense being thrown out like we are "cult followers" and are complicit in all this as Catholics just by receiving the Sacraments and having faith in Christ. What is interesting is that most of those who vent hatred against us are the youth who never had any real experience of the Church in Ireland.
     
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  9. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Much of their bile is rehashed Paisleyism, as they wouldn't have an original thought in their heads. They have had and continue to have no knowledge of either the Church or Christ, so they are actually venting against a fantasy in their minds. The irony is that those who most attack the Church are militantly pro-abortion and at least some among them favour the introduction of pederasty or worse.
     
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  10. Sanctus

    Sanctus "Pray, pray ,pray!"

    Also, they have no real spiritual protection of any sort and, in terms of demonic influence, they are wide open. A lot of them are involved in Yoga and New Age and are fertile soil for all this hostility. I'm glad I'm off to Medjugorje soon to get away from all this madness for a couple of weeks... If anyone needs any special intentions prayed for please let me know.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
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  11. padraig

    padraig New Member

    They way they treated dead babies and the still born back then is not the way we treat them now. The whole thing is crazy hype.
     
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  12. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Now I see that it is more smoke from Stan
    He is distracting from the real issues
     
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  13. Sanctus

    Sanctus "Pray, pray ,pray!"

    Over 20 years and counting of onslaught by the media in Ireland against the Church and Catholics, and it doesn't look like it will be stopping anytime soon. Most of the young people in Ireland grew up exposed to that media hostility, no wonder they never had a chance to develop faith and have fallen into apostasy.
     
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  14. Sanctus

    Sanctus "Pray, pray ,pray!"

    It is sickening to think that the media have conjured up another scandal (much that we know little about the true facts) that will probably last a few months and the only result will be further darkness in our mindsets, bitterness and hatred towards the Church. The Irish people seem to get a perverse thrill from opening up old wounds, rather than healing our faith and moving on. Especially when all this is happening at the centenary of Fatima when we should be focusing on the solution and coming back to God... At times it seems pointless and futile trying to bring people back to God in this country:(
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
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  15. padraig

    padraig New Member

    http://www.catholicleague.org/irelands-mass-graves-story-is-fake-news/

    [​IMG]

    IRELAND’S “MASS GRAVES” STORY IS FAKE NEWS
    Bill Donohue comments on news stories that Catholic nuns in Ireland housed a mass grave of babies:

    It was a lie in 2014 and it is a lie in 2017. There is no evidence of a mass grave outside a home for unmarried women operated by nuns in Tuam, Ireland, near Galway, in the 20th century. The hoax is now back again, and an obliging media are running with the story as if it were true.

    Any objective and independent reporter would be able to report what I am about to say, but unfortunately there are too many lazy and incompetent reporters prepared to swallow the latest moonshine about the Catholic Church. If there were a Pulitzer for Fake News, the competition would be fierce.

    Ireland’s Mother and Baby Commission completed its inquiry into this issue and released a statement on March 3rd about its findings today. The probe was a response to allegations made by a local historian, Catherine Corless, who claimed that 800 babies were buried in a tank outside the former Mother and Baby home that was operated by the Bon Secours nuns.

    The statement issued by the Mother and Baby Commission never mentions anything about a mass grave. Having completed a test excavation of the Tuam site, it found “significant quantities of human remains” in most of the underground sewage chambers. “These remains involved a number of individuals with age-at-death ranges from approximately 35 foetal weeks to 2-3 years.”

    That’s the story. If there were “mass graves,” not only would the official statement mention it, but so would Katherine Zappone TD, Minister for Children and Youth Affairs; she issued her formal remarks today. She says absolutely nothing about any “mass graves.” Moreover, when the government’s Interim Report was issued on July 12, 2016, it also made no mention of “mass graves.”

    “Experts Find Mass Grave at ex-Catholic Orphanage in Ireland.” That is what the Associated Press reported on March 3rd. The author, Shawn Pogatchnik, offers no evidence and no citation from the government’s report to prove his allegation.

    AP should know better given its lousy record on this subject. On June 3 and June 8, 2014, AP ran news stories on this subject and later had to apologize for making several factual errors. It now owes readers another apology.

    Reuters did a good job reporting on this issue: it never mentioned anything about the mythical “mass graves.” The Belfast Telegraph Online also offered an accurate account, but it was misleading in one way: it quoted Joan Burton of the Labor Party who cited the work of Corless, concluding that “it now appears” that there was “some kind of mass grave.” Her conjecture is based on Corless’ discredited account.

    Here is an excerpt from my 2014 report, “Ireland’s ‘Mass Grave’ Hysteria.”

    “The notion that a mass grave existed in the site of the Home is oddly enough credited to the same person who says there never was one. His name is Barry Sweeney. Here’s what happened.

    “In 1975, when Sweeney was 10, he and a friend, Frannie Hopkins, 12, were playing on the grounds where the home was when they stumbled on a hole with skeletons in it.

    “He [Sweeney] is quoted in the Irish Times saying ‘there was no way there were 800 skeletons down that hole. Nothing like that number.’ How many were there? ‘About 20,’ he says.”

    Douglas Dalby of the New York Times did a good job checking the facts and his account supports what I wrote. He quotes Sweeney saying, “People are making out we saw a mass grave. But we can only say what we seen [sic]: maybe 15-20 small skeletons.”

    The appetite to believe the worst about the Catholic Church, and Ireland’s nuns, is so great that many in the media will believe anything negative about it. Yet we know from the McAleese Report on the Magdalene Laundries that not a single nun was ever sexually assaulted by one of the sisters and that the conditions were not “prison like.”

    We also know that the movie, “Philomena,” was another smear job. Philomena Lee, upon whom the film was based, voluntarily turned her out-of-wedlock baby over to the nuns at the age of 22. After she signed a contract freely handing over her child to the nuns, the sisters helped her to find gainful employment. Contrary to what the movie said, Philomena never once set foot in the U.S. looking for her son. Indeed, she never set foot in the U.S. until it was time to hawk the movie.

    Mass graves. Sexually assaulted women. Children stolen. It is all a lie. It’s about time this non-stop assault on truth and the Catholic Church stopped before no one believes anything the media tell us anymore about all matters Catholic.
     
  16. padraig

    padraig New Member

    But let's face it , Like a lot of things people will believe what they want to believe, it does not matter to a lot of people if it is true of false.
     
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  17. Sanctus

    Sanctus "Pray, pray ,pray!"

    I was talking to a fairly well-known, holy priest during the week who believes some of these revelations could be part of God's justice. He also believes that all this needs to come out to bring healing to the Church in Ireland in the long run.
     
  18. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    There is no justice in judging an impoverished, wholly under-resourced society of decades ago by the standards of the present. Nor are most of the critics remotely interested in justice. What is more likely to happen is that the majority who believe everything in the papers or on RTE will dismiss the Church as a lost cause, while tragically having no idea of the deeper issues.
     
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  19. Scolaire Bocht

    Scolaire Bocht Archangels

    Yes in my opinion the nuns did a great job looking after the children, and they deserve our thanks for all the work they put in.

    What is true though is that in modern times the state has erected this huge state family law/ child welfare system which is very secretive. So many people who were illegitimate or brought up in 'care' etc have huge thick files about them floating around which they never get to see. Instead they are always fobbed off with 'counselling' of various types rather than genuine solid information about their ancestry and past.

    That would annoy me too, I think you have a human right to know all the details of your past, and real parents, without all of this bureaucratic rigmarole.

    So that is an injustice that should be fixed but the modern Irish state certainly wont do that. For example they have all the files on Tuam but they certainly wont let these former residents look at them...
     
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  20. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

    There are a lot of older people out there who are very wounded by the type of closed society we had where unmarried pregnant young girls were sent to these homes and forced by their families to give babies up. The laws of the country were framed to complete the cover up by denying the children any knowledge of who they were. We cannot really stand in judgement on a past generation who had little resources but we should offer reparation for the sins of our ancestors. Many unkind things were said from the pulpit about these unmarried mothers. Irish society across the board showed very little mercy to the weak and the fallen. I think this is an opportunity for us to repent of our lack of love. I know people who were raised in institutions and many are very scarred. I do believe that this is part of the purification of our country. The media of course use all these things to further attack the church but we do need to see beyond that to the many who are hurt and wounded by the past and by uncharitable attitudes. Jesus asked us to turn the other cheek so I think it's an opportunity for healing of the past.
     
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