To the gate keeper

Discussion in 'Coffee House' started by fallen saint, Feb 1, 2017.

  1. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    Where to start :)

    I enjoy Padraigs forum very much. It makes me happy to discuss spirituality, the church and all other Christian matters. It is the only forum I have found with such interesting and unique points of view. We seem to have lost many interesting brothers and sisters in Christ. Some were very knowledgable others were not but always interesting. I enjoyed debating blue horizon and reading Joes non-traditional responses. And I'm not talking about Joes faith or spirituality. I won't mention all the names but there were some very spiritually gifted members who would read all the nonsense and then might post once...but there were spiritual gems.

    What's my point? Not sure but maybe like a old traditionalist I like the past more then the moment. If we allow a few with the same arguments to be repeated over and over the forum will gradually loose it spiritual flavor. This was once a place of Catholic thought and spirituality. We were always conservative but it seems like it has gone to an extreme.

    Just a thought.
    davidtlig and Julia like this.
  2. Ed Kleese

    Ed Kleese Servant

    Wielding the Sword of the Holy Spirit
    (What I have learned about Soldiering in Christ's army from Fallen Saint)


    My Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

    As Catholics, we are all called to, "Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil." (Ephesians 6: 11). Part of our armor is the double edged, "sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." (Eph. 6: 17). " A sharp two-edged sword came out of his mouth, and his face shone like the sun at its brightest" (Rev. 1: 16) describes how out of Christ's "mouth came a sharp sword to strike the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod, and he himself will tread out in the wine press the wine of the fury and wrath of God the almighty" (Rev. 19: 15). We Catholics, as part of the Mystical Body of Christ, do our part to wield this sword of His Word with Him and in the Power of the Holy Spirit for the greater honor and glory of our Father.

    Christ taught us through St. Faustina, that the 2 blades of the sword are Mercy and Justice and Scripture tells us that this sword of God's Word "is living and effective, sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating even between soul and spirit, joints and marrow, and able to discern reflections and thoughts of the heart." (Hebrews 4: 12). We, as Catholics, have been entrusted with the sword of our salvation as we grab on to the Grip with our Christ so that He can bring back to the Father all that was created by His Word and the action of the Holy Spirit.

    In the caption of the sword above, we can see the named parts of a double edged sword. In the hand of a strong warrior (our Christ), it is an incredible weapon, but apart from Christ's steady hand on the Grip, wielding this sword by any other part can lead to:
    1. Serious injury to the user,
    2. Limited effectiveness against the foe, and even
    3. Possible damage to the Grip itself.
    Lets look at an analogy which uses the double edged sword above to describe how this can be so.
    • We've already said that the 2 blades represent Justice and Mercy.
    • The point of the Sword is where Justice and Mercy meet in the Power of the Holy Spirit
    • The Cross guard on the other end also bring Mercy and Justice together. This represents the union of our Blessed Mother and the Holy Spirit which forms,
    • The Grip → The place where God became human and allowed us to be baptized into His death (and part of His Mystical Body) and rise with Him as all of His enemies are vanquished. This is the only place on the sword that we can safely hold on to, because we are joined to the hand of Christ.
    • The Pommel - The blunt end of the sword which can also be a weapon (if used correctly).
    If we should decide to grab on to the blade of Justice so that we might fight, Justice cuts into our hand in one place and Mercy in another. If we disregard the pain of those injuries, we swing a weapon about that only hits our foe with the Pommel and we can damage our only handhold (Holy Mother Church). I think we can agree that no good swordsman or swordswoman in Christ's army would fight holding on to either the blade of Mercy or Justice.

    Attempting to grab hold of the point (where Mercy and Justice meet in the Holy Spirit) would be deadly because that is not the Grip that Christ designed for us to hold with Him and in Him. We welcome the Holy Spirit through Christ but apart from Him, well let's just say it did not work out so well for a certain group of rebellious angels.

    To be a soldier in Christ's army is then to join Him in wielding His sword by us keeping a firm Grip on Holy Mother Church in all of our battles. To fight any other way not only hurts ourselves but it can also damage the Body of the Church.

    We go forth boldly and fight all enemies without and within our Church even as we recognize that the very Grip we hold on to (as part of Christ's Mystical Body) is the Church itself and the Bride He will never fail.

    This is how my brother Fallen Saint wields the sword and his Grip is sure. This is not to say that I have to agree with him on all items and can't have differences of opinions about the steering of the ship, but I hold onto his hand, and all of your hands, knowing that they form Christ's handhold on the Grip of our Church.

    May the Lord bless us,
    protect us from all evil,
    and bring us all to eternal life.

    Peace, Ed
    Elly, Beth B, josephite and 1 other person like this.
  3. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I understand your viewpoint Fallen Saint. It would be nice to sit back and just discuss prayer, theology, mysticism, etc. However to do so right now would be to put our heads in the sand and ignore the Passion of the Church that is occurring right before our eyes. Before time began God knew these times would come and specifically created US for them. To stick our heads in the sand right now would be a crime, and in my personal opinion denying the reason for our creation.

    Many times you have lamented the people we "lost". I feel we have gained many interesting and devout new members as well. I keep looking at the forum membership numbers and they continue to increase. Things change. That's life. Many of the people who left the forum do not see the problems in the Church. Some of them even like the direction the Church is going. If I may be so bold as to say that is not what this forum is about. That viewpoint is not in keeping with the reality of the situation. We are about to enter the greatest battle in the history of the Church. The Church will be torn apart, we know this from prophecy. Pretending it is not happening is not an option. One of the main things this forum has always been about (at least to me) is a group of Catholics who see the problems in the Church and wish to discuss them and fight together in prayer and action. It is also very special in that it has a family feel. That is absent in most other forums I have seen.

    My personal opinion is that sometimes people go overboard in their criticisms of particular members of the hierarchy and the Pope and I think that is a mistake. I understand it comes from human failing. None of us are perfect. I think it does cost us some new members though. People discussing what is happening in the Church can easily go from critique to personal anger at the prelates. We must be humble though. God is in charge and we know He wins in the end. So it is not about if we will win this fight, but about HOW we go through the dark night. Do we go through it with humility and obedience to the truths Christ taught? Our job is to become saints and pray for our leaders in the Church, if some of them are failing it is in part because of us and our predecessors not praying enough and doing enough penance. There is plenty of blame to go around.

    You said:
    "...maybe like a old traditionalist I like the past more then the moment."

    I would say traditionalists don't like the past more than the present. They simply love Truth and it just so happens that most of that lies in the past. Truth doesn't change.
    BrianK, sterph, Mary's child and 13 others like this.
  4. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    Praetorian, if I could give you a thousand likes for your post, every one of them would be deserved. You have said everything I feel without causing me to be scared we might be offending Almighty God. Yet you speak the Truth in charity. God bless you. And God bless all here.

    All three posts above are good thank God.
    BrianK, HeavenlyHosts and Elly like this.
  5. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Thank you very, very much Julia.
    You made my day :)
  6. Clare A

    Clare A Archangels

    I second what Julia said: a wonderful post Praetorian Guard! We live in perilous times. At the moment things are heated with discussion about American politics and the state of the Church. I can remember when we were talking more about mystics and prophecy in a more general sense. I can see how people are confused and distressed by what looks like criticism of the Holy Father. But we faithful are also confused... we love the Pope and the Church because there we find Christ our Eucharistic Lord, but all around there is turmoil. Some have come here to assure us that the Holy Father is being misrepresented by the traditionalist media, that he says very beautiful things. I have heard them - he does. Malachi Martin has said that we should pay less attention to what a person says than what he does. I can understand that we might all not have the full picture of the Knights of Malta episode, so am going to put that on the back burner, but ....the sacking of the three theologians at the CDF without explanation is something I find troubling. Had Pope Benedict acted in this way there would have been much agitation from the modernists and pew Catholics. It will be interesting to see what happens to Cardinal Muller after his affirmation of traditional teaching about marriage.

    In time I hope we will go back to focusing on the interior life, the Consecration to Our Lady, spiritual reading, etc.

    Someone posted on here that a holy priest had called the present situation a sifting (or something like that). Could forum members share any wisdom they may have heard from holy people as to what is going on right now? What God might be trying to do? I guess the answer is obvious but I'd like to hear it anyway. There must be some mystically gifted priests or lay people who have a clarity? I'm not talking about unapproved seers, just hidden prayerful people. I used to know one such but lost touch with him.
    BrianK and Booklady like this.
  7. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    I can only add one thing. The Rosary is the weapon for the battle victory and the scapular is the armor against the attempts on our life. God has us on the journey of all journey's and we have only just begun. The saints dreamed of living in our times, so lets make the best of it!
    BrianK, AED, DivineMercy and 3 others like this.
  8. soldier of christ

    soldier of christ Archangels

    I very wise soldier knows when to strike, and not every battle needs to have a sword wielded. Peter found that out when he cut off the servant's ear when they came to arrest Jesus.
    fallen saint likes this.
  9. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Yes. Please God, more forum members and other Catholics will realise this.
    BrianK and Praetorian like this.
  10. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Important to always keep this in mind.
    BrianK likes this.
  11. PotatoSack

    PotatoSack Powers

    I don't think you really understand why people have left the forum. At least the way I see it and the people that I know who have left. Most of the people who have left the forum see the problems in the church and are realistic. People are not leaving to avoid talking about the serious problems in the church. People have left because this forum which was so respectful of the church and pope has denigrated to a place where Pope Francis has been called a clown multiple times...Pope Francis has been called pope frankie multiple times...articles are posted referring to him as Bergoglio instead of Pope Francis. And then it got worse with repetitive pictures of Pope Francis falling....then a thread is started that actually puts cardinals in the category of good or evil. Etc., etc. All of the above has created a very negative environment compared to what this forum was. Discussion became impossible with people being told they have their heads buried in the sand. At one time, I personally was told I should be booted off the forum...then was compared, with a few others, to herding cats...then a utube clip of a cat herding commercial is posted. So, many good people left the forum because of this type of stuff...not because they did not see the seriousness of what is happening in the church. Then it gets worse when the forum owner states he no longer recognizes Pope Francis as pope of the Catholic Church. I am not sure you can still be catholic and state that?? Now you have valid questions on is this a sedevacantist site now, or schismatic? More people left because of this.

    That is more how I see it. I might see it differently because I have been here so long so I have a different perspective and have seen more dramatic change on the forum. I know you didn't mean to P, but to me you minimalized the people who have left by chalking it up to not recognizing or dealing with the serious problems we have in the church. Yes, we have gained some great people here...but we are still at a huge net loss in my opinion!!

    Lastly, I think it is a grave mistake to stop talking about prayer, mysticism, etc. We are living in end times and the church is going through her passion...what will get each one of us through this is what we put into our prayer. If you are not praying and developing a relationship of dependence on our heavenly mother, I don't think you will survive what is to come. I think we need to be working on breaking into the mystical so we will recognize our lady's voice when things get crazy confusing. That is what will lead you down the right path when the time of decision comes...not the latest article posted on church happenings. To stop posting about prayer, spiritual growth, the mystics, fasting...I think that is ignoring what should actually be our focus now.
  12. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    I feel I should respond here on this thread as I am one of the members who have 'gone away' from the forum. I returned a couple of days ago to post an item on the Knights on Malta matter because the actions taken by Francis were important and significant (see )

    The problem that has developed on the forum is the same that is showing itself in the wider Catholic world. Catholics are being challenged on their beliefs. Two 'sides' have emerged in what is becoming a battle. One side puts rules as paramount, the other puts the 'heart' or conscience as paramount. Pope Francis is clearly in the latter camp and because Padraig and many of the active contributors are in the former camp, the forum has become very anti Pope Francis.

    The main problem with the forum now, from my point of view, is that most defenders of Pope Francis have effectively been 'silenced', either by being banned or 'frightened off' posting anything supportive of the Pope. This is Padraig's forum so he is entitled to manage it as he wishes but the lack of balance in the discussions now results in the same criticisms of the Pope (directly or by innuendo) being made over and over again, accompanied by inevitably predictable responses of agreement from fellow critics.
    lynnfiat and josephite like this.
  13. Arantxa

    Arantxa Angels

    I'm a new member. I am with Fatima, the Rosary is our weapon to fight the enemies of the Church also the Eucharist. I have learned from all the members about what is going on at the Vatican. Keep us informed we need you during these times.
    BrianK, AED, SgCatholic and 3 others like this.
  14. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    I´m new here but have been lurking for some time. I have read some of your posts and would like, if I may, to respectfully submit a few questions to you. They are NOT rethorical questions. I´ll try to keep them brief and to the point.

    I respect your position and I understand you do great work for both Medjugorje and Vassula. I believe in both so at least there we are in the same camp.

    You say "one side puts rules as paramount". Where do these rules stem from? Are they arbitrary rules created by man and therefore subject to change?

    I understand you see nothing wrong with the current pope. Frankly, is that so? Is he on the same page as his predecessors? Isn´t there anything at least slightly unsettling when he praises Italy´s leading abortionist leader as a "forgotten great"? Or when he says Catholics need not "breed likes rabbits" and that 2-3 children is about right? Or when he refuses to clearly and unambiguously condemn abortion? Or when he invites advocates of abortion, contraception and population control to speak at the Vatican? Aren´t you slightly uncomfortable with the people he surrounds himself with? Or when he praises liberation theology? Isn´t there something in the back of your mind that tells you that something might be wrong in the Vatican now?

    In Medjugorje Our Holy Mother has repeatedly warned against modernism. Why has she done so? Could the current pope and the people he surrounds himself with be called modernists?

    Through Vassula (in whom we both believe), Our Lord has praised Pope John Paul for being faithful to tradition. Can the same be said about the people in charge at the Vatican now?

    The world (and the media in particular) love this pope. The world being what it is now is it possible for you to be loved by the world and be completely faithful to Our Lord? Isn´t this in a way an indictment on the current pope? Because the world (and the media in particular) hated Pope Benedict, for example. They called him "God´s rottweiller" and a Nazi. Isn´t it a bit strange that even CNN loves him, calls him a "progressive" and constantly praises his actions?

    Thank you if you take your time to address these questions and I hope you stick around.
    SgCatholic and little me like this.
  15. little me

    little me Archangels

    "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them; he it is that loveth me. And he that loveth me, shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
    You put "laws" on one side of the debate and "heart" on the other. This is your mistake. God's laws are not contrary to a pure heart and conscience. Loving God is not a squishy, emotional feeling. He, himself, TELLS us how to love Him. KEEP. MY. COMMANDMENTS.
    AED, sterph, SgCatholic and 1 other person like this.
  16. Clare A

    Clare A Archangels

    I am sorry, Potato Sack, I had not realised that many of us sounded so nasty. I hope you do not leave, we all need and profit by your insight. I was one of a circle of people who commented on the old Holy Smoke blog, and at times the 'discussion' resembled a bar fight with the furniture being thrown around. It wasn't edifying and I was sneered at for being a goody goody when I asked them to stop it. We should respect the Church hierarchy, whatever we think of their stance. There is serious concern at the moment as it looks as if Pope Benedict's legacy is being undone, and now with the liturgical revision in the pipeline... well.... but let's all try to be respectful as Catholics, and realise that we don't always see the whole picture.

    Welcome back David!
    Elly and PotatoSack like this.
  17. josephite

    josephite Powers

    Good to see you back david.
    Yes Potatosack,
    We are all wondering , confused and trying to make sense of everything!

    When considering the state of the Church at present, it can be very demoralising but as you say this is the exact time we need Our Heavenly Mother's help! much more than ever before! (sometimes being clever through all this ungodly turmoil seems to verge on haughtiness!)

    I believe Praetorian would agree, this is a time to ponder and consider all things in our heart, just as Our Holy Mother Mary pondered all things in her heart.

    It is a time for deep humility! Thank you for your post.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2017
    Elly, DivineMercy, PotatoSack and 2 others like this.
  18. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Regarding the matter of rules being paramount or not, the important word there is 'paramount'. Of course rules are important, the Ten Commandments being the most important, but the two 'sides' in the argument I'm talking about take different perspectives on these issues.

    And yes, I see 'nothing wrong' with Pope Francis. Does that mean I agree with him on everything? Actually, no. I'm very unconvinced by the arguments about climate change for example but I see no particular problem in the Pope accepting the general advice of the scientific community.

    With regard to Pope Francis allowing some apparently rather 'secular' individuals a hearing or even an ivolvement in gatherings in the Vatican, I would only comment that he is trying to 'engage' with people from as many different standpoints as possible, simply to listen to them if they have expertise in particular areas. The critics like to call Francis a 'modernist' but he is no more a modernist than Benedict was. Unfortunately the critics keep repeating the same accusations and we are always in danger of some of it rubbing off in our minds.

    The openness of the Pope to the world should not be misunderstood as a readiness to compromise with the world. But it does, of course, give the devil a wonderful opportunity to sow seeds of doubt in the minds of some believers, many of them on this forum! It is my strong belief that in Pope Francis, God has given the Church a very special leader. The degree to which Catholics are now being encouraged to doubt him is, for me, a frightening example of the power of the devil at this time.
    lynnfiat likes this.
  19. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    So davidtlg, are you saying that all the above that Blizzard mentioned is perfectly fine for a pope to do?
  20. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    With all due respect Potato Sack I did mention in my post (as I have many times) that I am very much against the Pope-bashing. It denigrates the office and person of the Pope. Not only that but I am sure talk like that dissuades many new members from joining.

    Talking about these matters without letting it get nasty and personal is a very difficult tightrope to walk. That is one reason why I don't do it much. What people see is the very foundations of their faith in jeopardy and that gets the emotions up. I understand that. I empathize. It is hard for us to walk in the footsteps of the saints but that is what we are being called to do now.

    I would agree with many of the points you make and it is true that many have left for the reasons you cited as well. Though I think my initial reasons were just as true. Of course, it is always a mixed bag why any group of people do anything.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2017

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