The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I'm sorry Martina, I was not trying to say it was you. I hope it didn't come across that way. I was just trying to make a point to LV about handling these things delicately when people ask for personal advice about extreme hardship. Knowing the Church teaching and making it known is very important, but how it is conveyed is also very important. Your friend is in a very tough spot but it sounds like she has taken the first steps correctly.
     
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  2. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I will be honest and say I do not know if my words have ever converted anyone. I hope so, or at least I hope they helped. You just said you will use mild words to penitents, well this woman we are discussing is a penitent who is trying to extract herself from her situation.

    By the way, I don't think anyone who gave advice here was agreeing with adultery as you claimed. I have suffered the personal pain of being a victim of adultery and I have no love for it at all.
     
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  3. Martina

    Martina Pray Hope and don't worry: Padre Pio

    Thank you LV I know you mean well and are living by the book. Some of us are not as lucky as you but strive to be the best we can if not in the past we are trying now for our future. People in certain situations have been bashed by words for most of their life and like my friend said she could tolerate the beatings better than the degrading way she was spoken to and how dejected and unworthy of anything good in life , so for now I am gentle with my friend and guide her with the words of encouragement from posts here. I know in my heart you wish this person well as you to have mercy in your soul.
     
  4. little me

    little me Archangels

    I haven't read the rest of this thread yet so pardon me if this has already been said. An abused wife has the option of separating from her abusive husband. She cannot remarry or bed another man. But she absolutely does not have to stay in the same household with her abuser. This is Church teaching.
     
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  5. Martina

    Martina Pray Hope and don't worry: Padre Pio

    Your words give HOPE
     
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  6. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    Well I used mild words if she would listen me: Dear sister, your first marriage was too great trial for you. Your duty is to forgive your first and only true husband and pray, sacrifice your happines for him. If you want to do this, you must leave your current partner. If he loves your soul and not your body, he will support you and help you as friend. This is only way to your happines and salvation. Your current state of soul tells you, that your spirit is dead and you have the fear from death, because you would be dead forever. But renounce earthly hapiness and try to be holy. This is your only way. All compromisses offered here are from Satan.
     
  7. Martina

    Martina Pray Hope and don't worry: Padre Pio

    Hi
    She did remarry but has only recently found a certain peace in her life now and turned back to God but in doing so she has to rectify everything else in her new situation. By getting an annulment.
     
  8. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Thank you. Very, very much.
    That means a lot.
     
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  9. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Okay LV :)
    I know you are trying to share the truth as best you can. Just as we all are. :)
    I am sorry if I came across as too harsh to you.
     
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  10. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    Deceptive peace sadly. I know more than 300 men. 99% of them "loves" woman only for sex.
     
  11. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I guess you probably know but I will just mention it. An annulment is not a guaranteed thing. It could be found that her first marriage was indeed valid and she wouldn't be granted the annulment.
     
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  12. Martina

    Martina Pray Hope and don't worry: Padre Pio

    Oh I know that, if it's God's will it will happen if not she will have to make the right choices.
     
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  13. Martina

    Martina Pray Hope and don't worry: Padre Pio

    I will tell you this that the man she is with now is willing to wait and hope for an annulment they have not discussed what will happen if it's not granted, but to me the fact he is willing to not pressure or part take in any husband wife contact tells me he truly loves her and also wants it to be right.
     
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  14. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    You had truth, that my words were too hard, since I didn't know whether our sister read this forum. I erred in form. Chirurg has to call the illnes with true name - adultery. But physician never says to his patient hard words, but words of courage and hope. But medicine-penance is and remains always bitter.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  15. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    So if he loves her, I don't see a problem, why he shouldn't leave her. Maybe he is not Catolic and he doesn't know, that to lose on earth means to obtain in the Heaven. He can support her, meet with her, pray with her, but not live with her.
     
  16. Martina

    Martina Pray Hope and don't worry: Padre Pio

    I don't know LV maybe that hasn't been put to them, he is Catholic.
    Maybe I can put that forward.
     
  17. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Pope Emeritus Benedict, both in his papal role and as head of the CDF for many years, dealt with priestly sex-abuse (itself a predominantly homosexual issue, despite the intense efforts of the politically correct to maintain otherwise) in a very efficient and effective manner. The incidence of this most heinous crime has declined precipitously. Why change this? There would have to be very good reasons.

    The first link posted by Brian posits some very relevant questions. These are not 'fake news' items. They are diligent articles in respectable sources. They have been brewing slowly for a long time because the mainstream media don't publish very many reports that might tarnish their pet pope. These questions need to be answered, for the sake of justice if Pope Francis is innocent, and, if any guilt attaches to him, the same applies. Either way, 'the Truth will set you free'.
     
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  18. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I believe that it is only okay to live as brother and sister for the sake of the children. I don't know in this case if there are any. I think I was assuming there were and that is why they were staying together. I just thought I should state this publicly since I have made public statements about them living as brother and sister.

    http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage.asp?number=450851&Pg=&Pgnu=&recnu=
     
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  19. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Where marriage and adultery are concerned, Jesus Christ and 2000 years of Church teaching are my guide. Nobody knows what guidance the Pope is giving on the question of remarried divorcees thanks to his deliberately confusing Apostolic Exhortation. In fact, rather than "guiding", he has thrown the Church into confusion by fudging what had been crystal clear teaching about people living in bigamous unions.
     
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  20. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    Are you a priest? :)
    They can live as friends but not in one house. I was learned, that engaged couple cannot live in one house before their wedding. Here two people are even no engaged couple.
     

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