The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. picadillo

    picadillo Powers

    One snippet taken from Charlie Johnson and one from Ned Dougherty. I believe this is exactly spot on:

    charliej373 says:
    January 2, 2017 at 3:30 pm
    Are we to be reeds shaken by the wind? What are we to make of King David seducing Bathsheba and sending her husband to be killed? What are we to make of Abraham pimping his wife out? What are we to make of so many of even the saints who erred and stumbled and struggled to the fullness of sanctity?

    Did I not say these times would be chaotic for all, including the Church? If you count each battle as the totality of the war, anything troubling or any setback is a disaster. If you see the war as containing troubling things, failures, triumphs and losses before the final resolution you do not get shaken by the many twists and turns things must take before that resolution comes. I have told you well of the nature of the Storm. I have told you of the chaos that must rise. I have told you that some who are now considered rogues will be heroes before all is finished and some who are now considered heroes will be rogues and cowards before all is finished.

    Do not be like a reed shaken by the wind, but with the sure knowledge that the waves will rise and the winds will howl – and sometimes we will see things that make no sense to us – but certain that Christ is Master of the Storm and everything will contribute to His ultimate victory.

    And from Ned:

    Alas, the Pontiff in Rome and those who counsel him at the Vatican have chosen a course that is not always compatible with the plans of the Father in Heaven. The Pontiff and his conclave have been deceived by the worldly leaders and power brokers whose agenda is the new world order, and it is necessary now for the Church of Rome to recognize the power of the Holy Spirit that is moving in a different direction to bring a New Heaven and New Earth to all of God's people. Perhaps, the Pontiff in Rome will listen to the new direction that the new leaders of the world are hoping to lead you, which is away from the old order that has been secretly and covertly thrust upon all of the peoples, as well as upon the Church of Rome.
    FatimaPilgrim, Clare A and Martina like this.
  2. Martina

    Martina Pray Hope and don't worry: Padre Pio

    Just read both posts, Gosh will she be forgiven or not.....??
    There really is no room for error when it comes to marriage, and yet I know people who are children of abusive marraiges and they will say they wished parents left each other and how miserable a life they had. One I can think off hand who renounced the Mother saying she was weak at never protected herself or her children instead staying in a horrid marraige until the husbands death only to have her children resent her and their childhood. But I do realise the teachings then in the church were stay stay stay, and God fearing people did.
  3. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Picadillo, I am not very familiar with Ned Dougherty's messages but I believe he refers to an awakening, do you know anything about this? Does he believe that God will intervene with an Illumination of Conscience or is this something that he believes will happen by the power of the Holy Spirit in a less obvious way than with an IofC? Thank you.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  4. Martina

    Martina Pray Hope and don't worry: Padre Pio

    Thank you
    Clare A likes this.
  5. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Martina, this is a confusing subject.
    Catholic Church teaching is that in some cases, such as abuse, the couple is allowed to separate and then in some cases they are allowed to get a civil divorce in order to straighten out any financial matters, etc. that need to be sorted. The Church would never require a spouse or children to live in a dangerous environment. This needs to be done with the Bishops permission I believe (Most people don't ask the Bishop nowadays but I am pretty sure they are supposed to).

    After a divorce your friend can receive Holy Communion once she has confessed any mortal sins that she needs to. It doesn't matter if she committed adultery a hundred times. As long as she is sorry for it and doesn't intend to do it again she can be absolved.

    During this time she is not free to date anyone. She is still a Sacramentally married woman currently living apart from her legitimate spouse. If she does date again that would be committing mortal sins and she would not be free to receive Holy Communion.

    The only way to possibly change her situation then would be to look into an annulment. Otherwise she must consider herself a married woman living apart from her spouse until one of them dies.

    This is the current Church teaching.

    Clare above is right in her post. Your friend should speak to a good priest.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  6. MMM

    MMM Archangels

    I think it is dangerous to make bold statements like the pope isn't catholic assuming you fully understand what is happening and what God is doing. The dominate feeling conveyed in these anti-pope threads is one of pride, lack in mercy, fear and division. Not very catholic feeling. We are called to save souls. Pray of them and offer sacrifices for them especially strong sinners. Dishing on the pope and creating an us vs. them attitude is steeped in pride and fear and lack of trust in God's role in everything. Where is the calling for prayer for the head of our church? Where is love? Where is mercy? Where is trust? Are you trying save souls by saving them from the pope by calling him satanic?

    Most on MOG believe Padraig is in error. If he is wrong, he will be responsible for all the people your words have drawn away from prayer, drawn further from the faith instead of toward it or simply caused unnecessary fear and division. This is your forum Padraig and I respect your opinion but it comes across as highlighting you personal fears more than anything else. Yes there is the law, but also divine mercy and love conquers a multitude of sins.

    Padraig do you feel led by the spirit to state this or by your own fears? I don't see the holy spirit working like this.

    With respect, mmm
    Jeanne likes this.
  7. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    Samaritan woman had 7 marriages and she is saved, because she leaved his "husbends" and remained continent.
  8. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    Many here are married and they are fornicators, therefore they become blind. Therefore absolute purity is needed if someone want to see spiritual events.

    I will respond you by another quote:
    Jesus says:
    ―Yesterday‘s dictation elicits the following one.
    ―The families which are not families and which are the origin of serious misfortunes radiating out from within the family cell to ruin the structures of nations and, afterwards, world peace, are the families in which God does not rule, but, rather, sensuality and self-interest hold sway and, therefore, filiation with Satan. Created on the basis of sensuality and self-interest, they do no rise to what is holy, but, like unhealthy grass sprouting in the mire, they always crawl towards the earth.
    ―The angel said to Tobiah, ‗I will teach you who the devil has power over.‘ (Tobiah 6:16)
    ―Oh, there really are spouses who are under demoniac power from the first hour of their marriage! Indeed, there are people who are such even before getting married. They are this way

    from the moment they make the decision to find a male or female companion and do not do so with an upright purpose, but with deceitful calculations where selfishness and sensuality hold sovereign sway.
    ―Nothing is healthier or holier than two people who sincerely love one another and unite to perpetuate the human race and give souls to Heaven.
    ―The dignity of a man and a woman who become parents is second only to God‘s. Not even royal dignity is like this. For a king, even the wisest one, does nothing but administer his subjects. These parents, on the other hand, attract God‘s gaze towards themselves and carry off from that gaze a new soul, which they enclose in the sheath of the flesh born to them. I would almost say they have God as their subject, in that moment, since God immediately creates a new soul for their upright love forming a union to give a new citizen to Earth and Heaven.
    ―If they were to consider this power of theirs, to which God assents at once! The angels cannot do so much; rather, the angels, like God, are immediately ready to support the act of the fruitful spouses and become guardians of the new creature. But there are many who, as Raphael says, embrace the marriage state in such a way as to banish God from themselves and their minds and abandon themselves to lust. And the devil has power over these (Tobiah 6:16-22).
    ―What difference is there between a sinful bed and the bed of two spouses who do not refuse pleasure, but do refuse offspring? Let‘s not engage in verbal acrobatics and deceitful reasoning. The difference is quite small. For if, because of illness or imperfections, it is advisable or permissible not to have children, people must then manage to be continent and deprive themselves of the sterile satisfactions which are nothing but sensual pleasure. If, on the other hand, no obstacle to procreation intervenes, why do you make a natural and supernatural law an immoral act by deforming its purpose?
    ―When any honest consideration induces you not to increase the number of children, manage to live as chaste spouses and not as lustful monkeys. How can you want God‘s angel to watch over your home when you turn it into a den of sin? How can you want God to protect you when you force Him to avert his gaze in disgust from your sullied nest?
    ―Oh, the families are wretched that are formed without supernatural preparation! The families from which all searching for Truth has been excluded a priori and where, on the contrary, the word of Truth is derided which teaches what Marriage is and why it exists. The families are wretched that are formed without any thought for what is superior, but only under the spur of sensual appetite and financial considerations! How many spouses, after the inevitable custom of the religious ceremony - I said ‗custom,‘ and I repeat it, since for the majority it is nothing but a custom and not the soul‘s aspiration to have God with it at that moment - no longer have a thought for God and make the Sacrament - which does not end with the religious ceremony, but begins then and lasts as long as the life of the spouses, according to my thought, just as the taking of vows does not last as long as the religious ceremony, but as long as the life of the man or woman religious - and they make the Sacrament a party and turn the party into an outlet for bestiality!

    ―The angel teaches Tobiah that, by having the act preceded by prayer, the act becomes holy and blessed and fruitful in true joys and offspring (Tobiah 6:16-22; 8: 4-10, 15-17).
    ―It would be necessary to do this. For people to enter into marriage when moved by the desire for children, for this is the purpose of the human union, and every other purpose is a sin dishonoring man as a rational being and wounding the spirit, the temple of God, which flees in disdain, and to bear God in mind at all times. God is not an oppressive jailer, but God is a good Father who exults in the honest joys of his sons and daughters and responds to their holy embraces with heavenly blessings and with the approval which the creation of a new soul is proof of.
    ―But who will understand this page? As if I had spoken the language of an unknown planet, you will read it without perceiving its holy savor. It will seem like old straw to you, and it is heavenly doctrine. You, the learned of this time, will mock it. And you do not know that Satan is laughing over your foolishness; thanks to your incontinence, your bestiality, he has managed to turn to your condemnation what God created for your good: marriage as a human union and as a Sacrament.
    ―I shall repeat for you so that you will remember them and be guided by them - if you can still do so through a residue of human dignity surviving in you - Tobiah‘s words to his wife: ‗We are the children of saints and we cannot unite like the gentiles who do not know God.‘(Tobiah 4:12)
    ―Let them be your norm. For, even if you were born where sanctity had already died, Baptism has still made you sons and daughters of God, of the Holy of holies, and thus you can always say that you are the children of saints - of the Holy One - and be guided by this. You will then have descendants in whom the name of the Lord will be blessed, and they will live in his Law.
    ―And when the children live in the divine Law, the parents reap the benefits, for it teaches virtues, respect, and love, and the first to benefit therefrom, after God, are the fortunate parents, the holy spouses who have managed to make marriage a perpetual rite and not a dishonorable vice.‖
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  9. Martina

    Martina Pray Hope and don't worry: Padre Pio

    Thank you for taking time to reply I had decided not to tell her anything of the conversation I started here as it looked as there was no hope and I didn't want discouraging any good strives she has made towards God recently.
    She has everything backwards at the moment she has legally married again and she has been to confession regular, but she knows she's is in constant sin unless she goes about an annulment.
    She will not take the sacraments until there an annulment in place as is remarried within the church but for now she prays, attends mass and confession. I was there for her first confession in a long time and before she entered she was in a terrible panic frantic that she will be able to say all she needed to say when she came out she was in tears could barely speak but she told me after it was relief mixed with embarrassment of her confession and thankful she got to make the confession and the poor thing forgot what her penance was but prayed plenty in the hope that what she confessed was forgiven. The second time she went she more or less said she made the same confession and as if knowing the priest told her that she did not have to repeat her confession that she was forgiven already and Satan is putting doubt in her trust in God and that he will try to haunt her with her past failures but she was not to fall into his trap. And would you believe again she forgot her penance remembering only one part but she prayed and prayed.
    She says she does realise that by being with her second husband in this state is a sin but she does want this rectified and please God it is because I know she is trying and is DEEPLY sorry for her past.
  10. Martina

    Martina Pray Hope and don't worry: Padre Pio

    Thank you for all you have shared with me here.
    LittleVoice likes this.
  11. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    I love purity and spread this three messages among married and priests. You are the second person I met, who likes it :). Therefore I think you are not married :D
    Almost all husbands I know are fornicators and their marriage means the hell on the earth. But they do not want to hear this quotes. Thank you, I am happy that you are pure.
  12. Martina

    Martina Pray Hope and don't worry: Padre Pio

    Hi MMM your post is provoking in a good way. I love the Pope and I pray for his safety spiritually. If it is that the time comes and he has made his errors I think it is not to be judged by us but we do need to support and protect him. God will deal with him as he will deal with all of us. Padraig is voicing his own translations for us to regard or disregard as you have. Through prayer God will show us the right way so whether Padraig is right or wrong and his faith is strong God will not lead him astray in the end. We all have to accept correction at the end of the day as the truth is the truth.
    I pray all the time for clarity in this confusing world.
    CrewDog likes this.
  13. Martina

    Martina Pray Hope and don't worry: Padre Pio

    Gosh if I came across like that "pure" I am not. I am married also. I enjoyed your posts and whether I agree whole heartily or not does not matter but I take something from every post here and I thank you for what I have gained from your posts and for the time you put into them. I appreciate it.
  14. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    This, to me, is the ultimate deceit being perpetrated by defenders of the damage Pope Francis is doing to the Church.

    No, he hasn't changed any doctrine. He can't change any doctrine because he has absolutely no authority to do so. They always omit that information when trotting out their no changed doctrine excuse.

    So what has he done that's such a big deal? He has negated Doctrine by issuing an Apostolic Exhortation that is so open to varying interpretations that it makes a mockery of Doctrine. In other words, he is aiding and abetting heresy. "Internal forum" sounds so much more plausible than "irreconcilable differences" when it comes to Catholic divorce which is the result and probably the purpose of his Exhortation. I might salvage some respect for him if he were honest enough to admit it. Instead, he hides behind silence, veiled insults against anyone who opposes him and heaping praise on those whom the blinkered claim are using his pastoral message to introduce practices contrary to Church teaching. Nevertheless, in the absence of a credible alternative, he's the only Pope we've got so it's best to put up with him and pray that more bishops will see through what Americans might call his bait and switch tactics.

    Another member, I think it was AED, recommended the Malachi Martin interviews with Bernard Janzen and suggested checking them out on YouTube. I did that. They are long interviews, so you will need plenty of time to listen to them. There are eight videos in all. I don't know whether some are duplicates because I have listened to one of them so far. It makes for chilling listening. I'm sure that he wasn't 100% correct in everything he said but it's hard to discount his credibility when I look back over the past quarter of a century in the Church. It certainly appears that the wolves have gained control in the Vatican.

    Here are the links to the interviews:

    little me and CathyG like this.
  15. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    You are welcome Martina.

    I am sorry. I don't know how I missed that you stated she had already "remarried" in your original post. I am usually careful about reading posts before I reply to them but somehow that slipped by.

    Gosh it sounds like she is in a mess.

    Just to clarify, you said she is abstaining from the sacraments, but going to confession regularly. Confession is a sacrament.
    LittleVoice likes this.
  16. Martina

    Martina Pray Hope and don't worry: Padre Pio

    Oh no she cannot do that either, I thought it was only the Eucharist she could not receive, plus the Priests in the confession boxes never told her this either (which I'm kind of glad she'd be in an awful state altogether) so she should stay away from confession too. Oh Lord help us she is lost.

    I am editing as I have re read my "only the Eucharist" piece which comes across as if it means nothing. But just so you know Only the Eucharist is the most important thing to me during mass and to her and that some day instead of staying in her pew she can receive again.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  17. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    It's a response, LV, but not to what I had written.
  18. Clare A

    Clare A Archangels

    Martina if your friend can possibly live in her marriage as brother and sister then I don't see why she should not go to confession or even receive communion after confessing. The divorce isn't the problem, it's the second marriage which puts her into a state of bigamy/adultery. Whatever happens, she should not lose contact with her parish priest - he will be quite used to this kind of situation and be able to give good advice.

    I had a friend who had divorced her husband after suffering a lot of violence. When I knew her she was a single parent and continued to practise the Faith but eventually did get an annulment. I don't know if she has remarried.
    little me, DeGaulle and Martina like this.
  19. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Firstly, your friend is not lost! This is the problem with forums like this with people freely giving their views. You have to recognize the posts are OPINIONS of people who in many cases have agendas and beliefs which are far from orthodox Catholic belief. Your friend should go to her priest to discuss these matters. That is what Jesus wants because He has given us His Church with His ministers. No one is lost unless they choose to be lost. I doubt very much that your friend has chosen to be lost.
  20. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    My ironic post about black and white souls was not connected with my other posts from Notebooks.
    I answered you, since you wrote that Burke is a liberal. With connection with Jesus is everyone a liberal. You wrote about impure marriage where man want to have sex with woman. I quoted explanation of Tobit, where Tobiah wanted Sara for pure spiritual love.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017

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