The third secret of developments.

Discussion in 'Marian Apparitions' started by Beth B, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    As the link in my previous post has been removed by admin as a (wise) safety precaution, I am using copy and paste to share the article about Pope John Paul. The source is a website address www dot healthybrainMD dot com. It's the Fortanasce - Purino Neurology Centre in Arcadia, California.

    The Doctor who Diagnosed Pope John Paul's Parkinson's Disease

    The door opened off a corridor and there was Pope John Paul II, sitting next to a window, reading his worn-out breviary. With a rigid neck, he had to turn his whole body standing up. And when Dr. Vincent Fortanasce put out his hand to kiss his ring, he shook it with both of his hands, smiling.

    After a half-hour medical exam with questions to the Holy Father about his growing symptoms, it became “very, very apparent” to the California neurologist, whose specialty is nerve degenerative diseases, that the pope had Parkinson’s disease. He was also suffering cervical arthritis so badly that his stooped neck was nearly locked in one position. The physician figured it was probably from bending over reading the Litany of the Hours in that breviary every day.

    “But when I talked to him, he asked me why I was there in Rome,” Fortanasce, who shares a medical specialty practice in Arcadia, recalled. “And I told him I was there to work a few weeks at a clinic run by the Order of Malta. ‘But the real reason that I’m here is because I fight for life issues.’”

    The 70-year-old bioethicist, psychiatrist and board-certified neurologist told the pope how he had been involved in defeating California’s so-called “aid-in-dying” euthanasia proposition in 1992. Now eight years later, his big concern was with biotechnology and the burgeoning stem cell issue, using human embryo cells and cloning to do research. But his medical colleagues and others weren’t listening, which made him feel both utterly frustrated and depressed.
    Pope John Paul II shook his head as much as he could, observing in Italian that he thought the matter boiled down to eugenics. “He looked at me and he said, ‘Remember one thing. Give without expecting to get anything back,’” Fortanasce recently told The Tidings.

    “And then he said, ‘Preach without expecting people to necessarily listen.’ And then he followed up and said, ‘The greatest prophets were those who were persecuted because they said what people did not want to hear.’”

    The pontiff continued in English, speaking in a slow but thoughtful cadence: “To be human, we can expect suffering. And God gave us that suffering for a purpose. Suffering and hardship brings forth character in man. It brings out the best in man’s humanity. It makes an empathetic person. It makes us realistic and less self-centered and helps us because of our experience to want to help others.

    “Those who never suffered cannot understand human suffering and cannot understand the human person. Nor can they really understand the suffering of the poor or the ill or the old. And they especially cannot understand the place of the unborn. So the unborn are without a voice.”
    Fortanasce recalls the pope stressing there wasn’t — or shouldn’t be — any conflict between science and the laws of man. In fact, they work together, he pointed out. But humans must realize their limitations and live within them. Because some new scientific advancement is possible, doesn’t mean it has to be carried out.

    “What he said to me just completely changed my life in that it reinforced what I had believed,” said the Renaissance man, who was a star athlete at Seton Hall University and Yale Medical School and has coauthored more than half-a-dozen books. “I had started to become very, very despondent, you know, because it was so apparent that no matter who I would talk to about these life issues would really listen. They would smile at me and that was about it. They wouldn’t believe that we were actually going to be making clones and we were going to use human embryos and we were going to be experimenting on them.”

    He also remembers the “tremendous pain” in the pope’s face during the physical examination. At one point, he simply referred to his failing body the same way St. Francis supposedly did as “the poor one.”

    But there were lots of little grins, too.

    “He seemed to give me those smiles when I was telling him how severely depressed I was,” the physician confided. “Here I am going to treat him, and he’s treating me, noticing that I am suffering. He’s paying attention to my suffering, and this poor man has cervical radiculopathy [nerve damage], severe Parkinsonism, and he’s worried about me because I’m depressed that nobody will listen to me.”

    Fortanasce broke up laughing at the memory, still fresh 13 1/2 years later.

    “You could see the small smiles on either side of his face looking up at me,” he said. “And what I was getting when he was smiling was, ‘Hey, join the club. Nobody listens to me, either.’”

    After a pontificate lasting 25 years, Pope John Paul II died on April 2, 2005, at the age of 84. The first of two miracles needed for canonization happened to Sister Marie Simon-Pierre in Paris. Upon praying to the popular pontiff, her Parkinson’s disease miraculously disappeared in 2005.
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  2. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    It has been a hundred years since the Mother of God appeared at Fatima, and the triumph of the Immaculate Heart She promised has yet to be seen. There is only one reason for this: the Consecration of Russia has yet to be done. Instead, we have seen nothing but the Vatican party line and the fake news of those in the Catholic press who parrot it.

    That the Consecration will be done is certain. What is not certain is what will be left of the Church and the world when it finally happens.

    linked removed see
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  3. Light

    Light Guest


    I know that this (Nobody listens to me, either.) is true.

    No one was listening to him for many years. I think his program for the Church was being sabotaged for a very long time, especially when Parkinson's was more pronounced in him.

    A very great man.

    God Bless
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  4. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Yes, and those who refused to listen to him or even defied him are now demanding total and absolute obedience to Pope Francis. Says it all really.
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  5. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    Interviene to Saverio Gaeta, formar editor Osservatore Romano, eriges for Avvenire, the journal of the italian bishops.

    Sixty-four. So many are the years that divide the first apparition of Our Lady at Fatima (1917), from the alleged one occurred for the first time in Medjugorje to six children (1981). Many are the upheavals that occurred in the world in this period of time. Like many are the questions that continue to circulate around these two phenomena. The Church has recognized the truthfulness of the miracle of Fatima, however, there are still doubts about the exact content of the secret revealed by the Blessed Virgin Mary to the three shepherd children. Questions that the writer and journalist Saverio Gaeta tries to resolve, in his book released on the occasion of the centenary of the apparitions at Fatima. “The whole truth” (ed. San Paolo).

    Interviewed by in Terris, Gaeta explains what is “the whole truth” on Fatima and exposes his point of view on Medjugorje, starting from the statements that the Pope has made on the return journey from Portugal, last Saturday: “About the alleged current apparitions, the report shows some doubts. I personally am more ‘negative’: I prefer Our Lady Mother, our mother, and not Our Lady head of the telegraph office that every day sends a message at this specific time… this is not the mother of Jesus”.

    Has the Third Secret been revealed?

    According to the documents that I studied, it seems sensible to me to speak of two distinct texts. There are three parts of the message of Fatima to the shepherd children that are the ones that the Vatican considers the secret. There are however other texts of Sister Lucy that add an explanation, a clarification. In my book, I am presenting two letters she wrote to his bishop in 1937 and in 1944 and that only one year ago the Carmel of Coimbra (where Sister Lucy has lived, editor’s note) has made available, which are eloquent.

    What do they say?

    The first of the two describes a vision, in the context of the Third Secret, something that comes from heaven – a meteorite or a magnetic storm – as well as a natural cataclysms of immense size. The message of the ’44 talks also about a “destructive war”. The world at that time had experienced the tragedy of the world wars, but the nuclear bomb, released a year later in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an unprecedented. Then Sister Lucy says that she heard a voice saying “one baptism, one faith, one Catholic Apostolic Church”, as if it was an invitation to remain within the Catholic faith. It therefore seems that Our Lady warns man to conversion indicating otherwise two risks: the one of self-destruction – through a nuclear war or natural disasters favoured by a bad use of natural resources – and the one of the apostasy of the Catholic faith.

    If these letters were sent to the then Bishop of Coimbra, the Vatican was already aware from years…

    I assume that the original text is in the Vatican. At the time there were no photocopiers, therefore it is possible that the missive remained in the Carmel of Coimbra is a rough copy, maybe even incomplete in some parts that were only disclosed in the final version of the letter.

    Another central theme of the apparitions at Fatima is Our Lady’s request for the consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart. According to you, has this consecration been made in the manner and terms required? And today that in Russia we are witnessing an impetus of the Christian faith with respect to the dawn of State atheism of a century ago, is the consecration still necessary?

    Our Lady has explicitly requested that this consecration was made publicly by the Pope together with all the bishops of the world. This never happened. However, we have both testimonies attributed to Sister Lucy and a proof of the historic facts, namely the fall of communism and the momentum of the Christian faith in Russia, which demonstrate that the consecration made by John Paul II in 1984 had a certain “acceptance” from Heaven. But there is reason to believe that it is still necessary to do the Consecration exactly in the manner requested by Our Lady. And I am the one that says that, but Jesus and Joseph Ratzinger.

    Even Jesus? What are you referring to?

    Through an inner communication of 1936 the Lord complained with Sister Lucy saying about the consecration of Russia that “they will do it, but it will be too late”. To this we shall add the words spoken by Benedict XVI in 2010 at Fatima: “May the seven years that separate us from the centenary of the apparitions hasten the fulfilment of the prophecy of the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary”. Well, according to the messages of the Virgin, the triumph of the Immaculate Heart will occur only when the Consecration will be done. Therefore, Ratzinger recognized that until 2010 this had not happened.

    In a prayer at Fatima, Pope Francesco has defined himself as “a Bishop dressed in white”. In the airplane with journalists he then said that the prayer was written not by him but by those responsible for the Sanctuary. But there remains the mystery of that appearance to the little shepherds of a Pope who falls under the blows of his persecutors: is it a still current prophecy?

    As an academic I can say that the assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II, even if he recognized himself as the Pope of the prophecy of Fatima, corresponds to the prophecy of La Salette (1846), where Our Lady speaks of a Pope who will be injured, who someone will try unsuccessfully to kill “because I will defend him”. At Fatima instead Our Lady speaks explicitly of a Pope who will be “killed”. I therefore think this prophecy will be fulfilled in a time of persecution of the Church so much stronger than what it is today.

    The Cardinal Secretary of State Pietro Parolin defined “useless speculations” the discussions on a secret not revealed. What do you feel about this?

    The journalistic inquiries about Fatima are the consequence of the ambiguity on the part of the Vatican that leaves the question unresolved. An example on so many that I could give: Joseph Ratzinger in a press conference in June 2000, at a precise question, answers that all the prophecies of Fatima have been accomplished. And then, in 2010, during his flight to Fatima, he says exactly the opposite, namely that the prophecies are not limited to “the past”, but that indicate “realities of the future of the Church which gradually develop and show”.

    Let us remain at a papal journey, this time not towards Fatima but returning from Fatima. I am referring to the journey of Pope Francis last Saturday and to his statements on Medjugorje. You in the past also worked on these other alleged apparitions, how do you evaluate the words of Bergoglio?

    The Pope said that he does not like Our Lady as the “head of the telegraph office that every day sends a message at a specific hour”. I start from the fact that the Pope has stated that these are personal opinions, and I would like to respond to these, which are not Magisterium. Well, in Medjugorje Our Lady from 1987 comes to give one message per month, previously (1984 to 1987) she used to give one message per week. The total per today is 515 messages, not the seven thousand and more of which the bishop of Mostar talks about including also the alleged apparitions to the individual visionaries during which Our Lady gives no messages but prays. I note that in San Nicolas, in Argentina, Our Lady has given so far 4,250 messages and she continues to give more. Yet these apparitions have been officially recognized by the local bishop. Here it would not be a “postman Our Lady” but a “telegraph Our Lady”… I love to think that if Our Lady is the mother, she acts like the other mothers: insistently lovingly knocks on the shoulder of the son to ask him to listen to her advices and to redeem himself.

    Continues here:

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  6. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    This is a great interview with some wise and helpful answers to current issues.
  7. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Very interesting interview Jarg, thank you.

    One thing that caught my attention was this question and answer:

    Even Jesus? What are you referring to?

    Through an inner communication of 1936 the Lord complained with Sister Lucy saying about the consecration of Russia that “they will do it, but it will be too late”. To this we shall add the words spoken by Benedict XVI in 2010 at Fatima: “May the seven years that separate us from the centenary of the apparitions hasten the fulfilment of the prophecy of the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary”. Well, according to the messages of the Virgin, the triumph of the Immaculate Heart will occur only when the Consecration will be done. Therefore, Ratzinger recognized that until 2010 this had not happened.

    I wonder if Mr. Gaeta was speaking off the cuff or if he is working from a different translation than the ones I have seen.
    I have always seen this reference written as:
    “they will do it, but it will be late”
    “they will do it, but it will be too late”

    These could convey two very different meanings.
    One might mean it will be done just in time, the other meaning it will not be done in time.

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  8. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    Seems to me he was just speaking of the cuff. But his point is pretty clear. The triumph of Immaculate Heart will come as the consequence of the Pope's humble obedience to the request of the consecrating Russia. If Pope Benedict clearly said that the Triumph is yet to come, then it is not very ilogical to conclude that the consecration had not been fully completed - it has been done, but only in part, and there simply is no support conditions from the bishops and pope's entourage to do it. The support wasn't there with the previous two popes, and it is even less so now.

    But if the church and the world continue the rapid deteriation we see, it is possible it will become very obvious that a last consecration naming Russia is needed.
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  9. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    Yes it is needed.
    And it will be done,but late.
    Like the King of France,yet he was a prisoner.
    I guess we will have to wait for a Prisoner Pope.
    We have to wait for a Pope who does not live in the usual residence.
    Who does not wear the Papal clothing.
    Who shares a name with St Pius X.
    Who some may even have the impression he is Pope.

    Well I can't see that coming.
    For all those things to come about at the same time as the Doctrines of the Faith are being attacked by the Hierarchy is practically zero.
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  10. AED

    AED Powers

    With men these things are impossible but with God all things are possible.
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  11. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

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  12. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    Of Fatima and Souls

    Why was the Third Secret – the vision and Our Lady’s words explaining the meaning of the vision – being hidden from us? How, then, could we defend ourselves from the coming threat? What was being hidden from our knowledge? Did the Third Secret speak of the upcoming Vatican Council, to “dangers threatening the faith and the life of the Christian and therefore [the life] of the world” (Cardinal Ratzinger), to “apostasy [loss of faith] within the Church” (Cardinal Oddi), to something “scary” (Mother Angelica), to the idea “…that many Cardinals, bishops, and priests are on the road to hell and taking many more souls with them” (Fr. Nicolas Gruner, quoting Fr. Malachi Martin), to the thought “that the great apostasy [within] the Church will begin at the top” (Cardinal Mario Ciappi), to a great catastrophe (Pope John Paul II at Fulda Cathedral in 1982), to the notion “that Russia would wage a sudden war, would overrun all of Europe” (Sister Elena Aiello), to the thought that “it is therefore completely probable that the text makes concrete reference to the crisis of faith within the Church and to the negligence of the pastors themselves [and the] internal struggles in the very bosom of the Church and of grave pastoral negligence of the upper hierarchy” (Fr. Alonso – official Fatima archivist), to the revelation that “we must be prepared to undergo great trials in the not too distant future” (Ian Colquhoun in The Fatima Crusader, issue #94, p. 47), to the truth that “the greatest persecution of the Church does not come from external enemies, but is born of sin in the Church, from the sin that exists in the Church…” (Pope Benedict XVI), to the thought that “Our Lady’s Secret warns explicitly against the disastrous effects … of alterations to the rite of Holy Mass.” (Fatima Center staff in The Fatima Crusader, issue #110, p. 28.)

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  13. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

  14. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

  15. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

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  16. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

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  17. MMarie

    MMarie Guest

    The link posits that a meteor might be the chastisement warned of at Fatima. Wouldn't that make sense, given the miracle shown to those thousands: a "sun" rapidly approaching the earth?!
    If this disaster were seen to be averted, as it was at Fatima, by Our Lady, it could usher in the Triumph of Her Immaculate Heart. Our Blessed Mother has given specific warnings before (Kibeho, for e.g..)
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  18. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Here is an interesting interview:

    It is regarding the two Sister Lucy's argument and whether or not Russia has been consecrated. I want to thank David for mentioning Dr. Zugibe on this or another thread. I was unaware of who Dr. Zugibe was, but after having researched him a bit I am confident he is an extremely credible and reliable source.

    I don't expect this to end either controversy, but it is food for thought.
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
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  19. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I know there are many on the forum here who have read the Desmond Birch book Trial, Tribulation, and Triumph and follow the timeline he sets out for the current time period. This has also been my thinking as well. The Chastisement has always been a conditional prophecy though.

    I would submit this for thought:

    Is it possible the 1984 consecration was done properly enough (perhaps with an inner intention by Pope St. John Paul II) to prevent a World War III Chastisement? It may even have been last minute if the 100 years Pope Leo XIII predicted in the 1880's began at that point. And thus it was done "late" as we were told by Sister Lucy it would be.

    Is it possible we have had the Era of Peace in the 26 years of "peace" since the fall of the Soviet Union? Perhaps the period of peace is relative to how well we responded to the requests at Fatima. Since we did not respond well, the peace was not as spectacular as we had hoped. After all I believe that Sister Lucy said the Miracle of the Sun would have been more spectacular if the children hadn't been kidnapped to keep them from one of the apparitions.

    There have been several prophecies that have said the Chastisement would happen by the year 2000 and it didn't.

    Sister Lucy said the verses that are the essence of the Third Secret are found in Chapters 8-13 of the Book of the Apocalypse. These do indeed reference the Antichrist.

    If all this is so, then perhaps we are not moving into the Minor Chastisement Birch speaks of, but of the Major Chastisement he mentions, which is the Era of the False Prophet and the Antichrist...
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
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  20. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    This is what I think....
    Every consecration of the world made by the Popes has been accepted by Heaven and changed timelines.The first one by Pius XII helped shorten the war.The one by JPII avoided a war.
    But I think we will see Rome scramble to make it properly when faced with a cataclysmic event.Like an Asteroid or something.
    .....we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire
    Then Our Lady will in a marvelous way save us...
    .....but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand:
    But because it is so late,part gets through
    .....the point of the flame-like lance which detaches, touches the axis of the earth and it [the earth] shakes: mountains, cities, towns and villages with their inhabitants are buried. The sea, rivers and clouds leave their bounds, they overflow, flood and drag with them into a whirlpool, houses and people in a number unable to be counted; it is the purification of the world from the sin it is immersed in. Hatred, ambition, cause detructive wars.

    We were given a prelude to this event in October 1917 when those in Fatima saw the Sun heading towards the Earth.They thought it was the end of the world.


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