Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by Blue Horizon, Aug 4, 2015.

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  1. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    Don’t be afraid, because anyone who works for the sanctity of marriage and the family will always be fought and opposed in every way, because this is the decisive issue. A However, Our Lady has already crushed its head.
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  2. Blue Horizon

    Blue Horizon Guest

    Aviso this is from 2014.
    BTW if the remarried are barred from Communion it is not because they have formally committed actual mortal sin (which may or may not be true but who would know except God).

    It is primarily because they, as far as ecclesial authority can determine, have materially transgressed particular proscribed Commandments. Historically those proscribed grave matters were: denying the faith (eg the traditores) , habitual killers (eg soldiers) and habitual adulterers (eg the remarried).

    The prohibition against Catholic soldiering was rescinded in the 300s I think (and in some Churches was allowed anyways). The life-time prohibition against those who denied the faith under persecution was also eventually overturned provided forgiveness was given by the bishop I believe.

    It is interesting that these Communion prohibitions of ecclesial law do not apply to all grave transgressions, only some...those with public significance by the looks of it. Habitual private grave transgressions do not seem to incur the same strict ecclesial prohibitions re Communion.
  3. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    If you are looking for honest feedback Blue here is what I think. You are right to be concerned when someone throws around terms like apostasy, heresy, etc. You are also right to be concerned when a Prince of the Church is invoked in these matters. These are not things to be done lightly. Because they are not to be done lightly however does not mean they are not to be done at all. Saints even agree on this:

    It must be observed, however, that if the faith were endangered, a subject ought to rebuke his prelate even publicly.”St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica II, II, q. 33, a. 45

    It should also be pointed out that Basto did not declare Cardinal Kasper a formal heretic, only that his ideas had heresy in them. “Kasperism” as he called it. In my humble opinion Kasper's idea on communion for the civilly divorced and remarried are straight from Hell. These are not Catholic ideas. They are digging at the roots of the Catholic Church. This is modernism pure and simple and that in itself is a heresy. As I am sure you are aware all priests had to take an oath against it up until the past few decades when it was done away with.

    I realize you are coming at these issues from a very different point than most on the forum. I am not trying to say what is in your mind, but the way you come across in your posts is that we are just in another one of many tumultuous periods the Church has gone through. It will come and go. You seem to look at these problems intellectually only. The problem with that is that though there is an intellectual component, that is not where faith lives. As Fallen Saint is so fond of saying you don't start from the point that God is real, you start from a philosophical base. This is not a criticism, it is just the way God created you. What you do, you do real well. God has certainly gifted you with great reasoning. The problem here though is that sometimes things can be intellectualized so much that the meaning is lost. Intellectual arguments can be made to support almost anything.

    Is the seventh commandment more than “You shall not steal?”. Certainly. What if you are about to die and the only way you can live is to steal an apple off a cart? Yes there are exceptions to the rule, and theologians can talk all day about how much stealing constitutes a grave sin vs. venial sin, etc. When it comes right down to it though 99.999% of the time the basic rule God set down “You shall not steal” covers it. Most people stealing are not in horrible life threatening situations. This applies to the issue of divorce as well.

    The Church stands right now at the final battle of our age. We have thousands of prophecies from the past 2,000 years and before that show this clearly. This is not simply another crisis that will come and go peacefully. It is very possible that in several years most people reading this post will be dead. Wiped out by nuclear weapons, plague, famine, etc. The most important place to be now is not in a theology book, but at Our Lady's feet listening to her warnings and praying. It is clear marriage and the family are being attacked in the secular realm and also from within the Church. The devil is wily, his attacks will be camouflaged, he will not assault the Church with machine guns, but with books and clever ideas. He is also an amazing theologian. We have been warned that the assault on the Church will come from within. You have great gifts Blue, please join us in the fight.
    Mac likes this.
  4. Eamonn

    Eamonn Guest

    When i read Bastos post it really sadden me that one Catholic could be so Cruel, Cold Hearted, Lie, and Gossip about another Catholic never Mind a Cardinal of the Church.

    Basto said:
    . We can’t just wash our hands like Pontius Pilate while they crucify the Truth, which is Jesus Christ Himself.

    You have done more than wash your hands like Pontius Pilate
    you have turn yourself into Pontius Pilate by the Judging a Cardinal of the Catholic Church. Not only have you Judged this Cardinal you have Crucified his name and reputation and may God forgive you.

    Francis: Speaking ill of others an ‘evil, sickness’ in the church
    Pope Francis has again colorfully called on members of the Catholic church to avoid gossip or speaking ill of their peers in the faith, saying that the problem of these seeking to sow division among one another is “an evil” and a “sickness” in the church.

    In his daily homily reflection at the Casa Santa Marta Friday, Francis said the work of Christians in the midst of “news of war, hate, even in families” is to be “men and women of peace, men and women of reconciliation.”

    “And it’s good to ask ourselves: Do I sow peace?” the pope continued. “For example, with my tongue, do I sow peace or do I sow discord? How many times have we heard it said of a person: ‘But they have a serpent’s tongue!’ because they always do that which the serpent did with Adam and Eve, destroying the peace.”

    “And this is an evil, this is a sickness in our church: Sowing division, sowing hate, not sowing peace,” said the pontiff.

    “If a person, during their life, doesn’t do anything else but make peace and reconciliation, they can be canonized,” said Francis. “That person is a saint.”

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    “We have to convert ourselves,” he said. “Never a word that may divide, never; never a word that can bring war, small wars; never the gossip.”

    Then, using a color analogy he has used several times, the pontiff said: “To make gossip is terrorism.”

    “Whoever gossips is like a terrorist that throws a bomb and if it goes off, destroys; destroys with the tongue, doesn’t make peace,” said the pope. “This is cunning, eh? They are not a suicide bomber, no, no, they protect themselves well.”

    Offering a final prayer at during the homily, Francis asked that Jesus teach “how to bite my tongue before speaking ill of other
  5. Infant Jesus of Prague

    Infant Jesus of Prague The More you Honor Me The More I will Bless Thee

    Blue I forget to be honest. When Obama was in Chicago he hooked up with Rev Wright , non denominational I believe. Wright was very anti American and called Gods wrath down upon our Nation... When running for pres in 07/08 obama was asked about this so called pastor and Obama replied he never heard these sermons....20 years in the pews at this church and never heard one, but video and audio recordings speak for themselves. Wright after 911 said America your chickens have come home to roost...

    Wright had said one time he baptized Obama, for he was a muslum? Obama denies this? but his kids were baptized by Wright.
  6. Infant Jesus of Prague

    Infant Jesus of Prague The More you Honor Me The More I will Bless Thee

    will I ever become a Banzi tree?....Lord you know we have hedge trimmers these days, ohhhh the pruning!
    Ty E....words for a lot of us! me first!
  7. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    I assume Pope Francis is speaking about these plotters...
  8. MarysChild

    MarysChild Principalities

    Speaking the truth about the teachings of the Catholic faith when they are denied is not gossip, whatever it may be. One should not just presume that a Cardinal (or a bishop, or a priest) always has the truth.

    Certainly one should be careful before calling anyone a heretic, but sometimes it must be done (i.e. the Arian heresy) I'm not saying that Cardinal Kasper is an obvious heretic, but there's certainly cause for concern in his ideas.

    I would also say, regarding Pope Francis' speech, that if someone is putting forth false ideas as if they were Catholic teaching, that person has ALREADY destroyed the peace. It's not the person who points out the error that is destroying the peace.
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  9. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Thanks you Mary's Child, well said. Slander and gossip are not the same thing as reporting on the actual proposal of someone who has put one forward to be considered. It is not our fault his proposal runs against the timeless Church teaching. In addition we are obliged point out error for the good of the Church, no matter who is speaking it. Believe me I find nothing fun or fulfilling about this.
  10. Infant Jesus of Prague

    Infant Jesus of Prague The More you Honor Me The More I will Bless Thee

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  11. MarysChild

    MarysChild Principalities

    True enough, IJoP....but laypeople have no authority, so they are usually ignored, and that's why I didn't mention them. The exception is usually if they have authority in some other area, e.g. politics.
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  12. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    You are both right, It is usually the job of the clergy to lead the laity, but it is also the duty of the laity (As the Sensus Fidelium) to guide the clergy when they go astray and to bring them back. This is what happened during the Arian heresy. 95% of the Church Hierarchy was in heresy, but the people stood fast to the truth and didn't get led astray by the false teachings.
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  13. Basto

    Basto Guest

    Thank you for your kindness, but nope, not yet. Though if the owner of this house ever tells me that anything I said isn’t right I will go away in the very next moment, why don’t you try to convince him?
  14. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Oh please, give it a rest. Kasper's position was condemned by two previous popes so no one is on shaky grounds for repeating their findings.

    Meanwhile forum members excoriate Cardinal Muller for his position on Medjugorje and condemn Cardinal Burke simply for defending the Faith and your ilk is silent.

    You're not kidding anyone.
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  15. Infant Jesus of Prague

    Infant Jesus of Prague The More you Honor Me The More I will Bless Thee

    Im just gonna throw this out there,

    with ALL that's going on in the world. Padraig is stressed and talking of shutting the MOG forum down. Anyone on the forum want this?

    Drop the attitude of im getting the last word or if im wrong they will tell me.....cum;on just stop.
    Is it better to have the last word ? or keepin this forum open so folks can talk around the Catholic world??

    Its a question that only you can give the answer...
  16. Basto

    Basto Guest

    The Sacred Family in the Miracle of the Sun

    "After Our Lady had disappeared into the immense distance of the firmament, we beheld St. Joseph with the Child Jesus and Our Lady robed in white with a blue mantle, beside the sun. St. Joseph and the Child Jesus appeared to bless the world, for they traced the Sign of the Cross with their hands." (from Lucy's Memoirs)

    Fatima, 13th of October, 1917
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  17. Torrentum

    Torrentum Guest

    Oh how I wish I had witnessed this!
  18. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    What a wonderful history Basto, and a great photo of the past. I agree with you,Fatima is not over. It is as relevant today as it was then. I wonder how many of these people are in heaven, after that blessing hopefully most of them. Thank you.
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  19. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    Ilk...wheres my stone.

    Brother al
  20. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Padraig had a premonition about being attacked on this forum.

    In modern Catholicism there are the "laws of thirds." A third of the --------- (fill in the blank - laity, priests, bishops, cardinals etc. ) are robustly orthodox, a third are the mushy middle that goes whatever way the wind goes, and a third are the "true believer" progressives, always trying to gut all Church teachings and disciplines regarding everything esp the bedroom issues.

    If the progressives prevail at the Synod, it's not just the progressives that the orthodox will be battling but also that mushy middle that will be happy to go along to get along esp since they'll no longer have to defend the Church's archaic and too difficult moral theology teachings.

    The Remnant third will be fighting the 2/3 that accept the compromise and it's going to be a nasty fight. That 2/3 will adopt language and tactics we never dreamed of, let alone thought fellow Catholics would stoop to.

    And I think that's what Padraig is foreseeing. I could be wrong but I strongly suspect not.
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