The Pivotal Year of 2011

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by Mario, Jul 25, 2010.

  1. Mario

    Mario Powers

    My heart is filled with a little trepidation. I have chosen to share my conviction knowing full well we have grown leary of date-setting. Recently maryrose came back from Medjugorge with an impression that the apparitions are winding down. Also recently, I responded to a question from Darrell as to why 2011 might be a turning point in prophetic affairs. I stated that the convergence of secular events and increased disasters gave a sense of next year's importance. I can think immediately of six pointers: 1) the Middle East powder keg appears close to exploding. 2)The Gulf Spill tragedy is fresh in our minds. 3) A new economic downturn is gaining speed. 4) Political unrest is on the rise in the USA. 5) North Korea threatens to push the button. 6) Secular humanism marches unimpeded and seeks open persecution on the Church.

    What prompted this thread are Padraig's icons and garabandal's latest re-visit of a Mark Mallett reflection. In particular was a reported appearance of the Little Flower to a priest in which she warned of imminent persecution. And so I seek direction from Our Mother through whom Jesus so richly blessed my family 23 years ago in Medjudgorje. Did you know that the apparitions began on 6/24/81 on the feastday of Saint John the Baptist. Nothing our God ordains is by accident. Mary never spoke a word that day but I believe she left us a clue as to when events would begin to unfold. Let us now look at the end of the Book of Malachi:

    4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the LORD comes. 6 And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse."

    And when was a fulfilment of this last prophecy of the Old Testament? When Jesus was coming down from the Mount of Transfiguration, he had an exchange with the three apostles who were with him as recorded in Matthew 17:

    10 And the disciples asked him, "Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?" 11 He replied, "Elijah does come, and he is to restore all things; 12 but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of man will suffer at their hands." 13 Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.

    John the Baptist was a precursor, preparing the Jews for their coming Messiah. Fulfilling the Malachi prophecy, he instructed those who came to him on how to conduct themselves. When Jesus appeared, John pointed him out and stepped out of the limelight.

    Mary also comes as a precursor, preparing us for the Reign of the Sacred Heart. In Medjugorge she has schooled us on how we should conduct ourselves and grow in holiness. I believe she is also fulfilling the Malachi prophecy for our day. Early in the apparitions Our Lady made a startling annoncement:

    I have come to call the world to conversion for the last time. Afterwards, I will not appear any more on this earth. (5/2/82)

    Our Lady has a job to finish. The secrets will soon begin to unfold and the Era of Peace is on the far horizon. The question is when do the secrets begin to unfold? I believe a clue lies in the date of 6/24/81. When did John the Baptist's ministry end? Somewhere around the time he was 30-yrs-old. How do we know that. Well, Jesus was six months younger than John, and Jesus began his public ministry about the age of 30. June 24, 2011 marks the 30th anniversary of the apparitions in Medjugorje. Like maryrose, my sense is that the apparitions are winding down. It is a conviction that grows ever stronger and I believe that 2011 is a pivotal year. Let us rejoice in Our Mother's loving care and her visitations. Let us prepare by living her messages. Come Lord Jesus! Maranatha!

    Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
     
  2. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Thanks for that, Terry!!

    I always thought that 1981 was a very,very special year. So many special events starting then. Not only Medugorje but I think the apparitions at Kibeho in Rhwanda. It was also in 1981 that I met Our Lady a few months before Medugorje and Kibeho started up. Thats why I always recall 1981 so well... I also note in reading spiritual accounts and journals the year 1981 mentioned in terms of conversions and personal events...

    So much is a mystery. But I chanced to be listening to the Radio yesterday morning and caught an economic section on European economies, they were talking about the chances of European countries defaulting on their debts and what would happen, these were serious economists, not radicals, my heart kind of missed a beat listening tothem, they did not spell it out but if things go askew , well it seems like just about everything could collapse. To know these things from prayer and to actually hear people on the media openly talking about them, well it brings you down to earth.

    But, reallythere is nothing to be done, really but that which Our Lady asks us to do.

    Pray, pray the rosary.

    Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand.

    Fast and watch.

    Be a good Catholic.

    Trust,all will be well.

    I thank God for the gift of this forum as the waves of change move towards us. I should have been feeling so isolated without folks to share with and insights to gain. For the thousandth time I resolve to walk more closely with Our Blessed Lady and Her Son as the twilight of our age draws on. May Our Lady protect this little forum and permit it to continue to function as events roll on. It would be such a treasure when the evening shades draw in.

    I am sad, for so many reasons too. I wish people had prepared themselves a lot better. Many , many otherwise good and faithful Cathoics did not harken to Mary's Mesages right across the globe. It would have much better we really needed time to prepare and so many will be caught right out in the open spiritually when the storm breaks. So sad.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    I think our Lady would like more time to be with us - perhaps another ten years or so to prepare us but the world is heading so fast and terribly in the wrong direction that I too sense we may be running out of time. The more recent messages of Medjugorje are more deeply spiritual than the earlier messages which indicates our Lady is schooling her children at a more advanced level, again an indicator that we are closer to the end of the messages than to their beginning. I had hoped the messages might last 40 years since our Lady is leading and schooling us in holiness out of the darkness of sin and the culture of death.

    But the world has become so dark - things cannot go on the way they are without repercutions for even nature will revolt against the sins of this generation - I am talking here about major earthquakes, volcanoes and tsunamis on a natural level but also humanity is quite capabale of self-destruction. How many of us would be surprised if there was a nuclear attack or exchange? The surprise is is that it has not happened already. And the appearance of our Lady in 1981 is not a coincidence. Ivan has always said that had our Lady not appeared in 1981 then the world would have already destroyed itself. So she has won for us a period of grace and we rejoice for we have converted. It thas taken me the whole 30 years to convert - I am a slow-learner but I praise God for his mercy!

    Divine Mercy is so beautiful - praise God for his patience - but perhaps the Father is running out of patience, who knows. But the expiriy of the time of grace is getting closer no doubt.

    Today is the 25th of the month and we wait in anticipation for another new message from our Lady at Medjugorje. May she lead more and more of her children out of the darkness and into the light of divine truth.
     
  4. bflocatholic

    bflocatholic Powers

    Just a comment on the painting in your post, Padraig-- very striking. Jesus, we trust in you!
     
  5. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Padraig,

    In today's world where the hearts of so many have grown cold, love is truly lacking. Such a vacuum allows for a spirit of fear to enter in. When calamity hits to whom do people turn? As you said, it is very sad. I'm afraid that those who are anxious and fearful can be easily manipulated. I think I sometimes almost forget what not experiencing the peace of God is like. Well somewhere in Isaiah I believe, it says:

    How lovely on the mountains are the feet of him who brings good news, announcing peace and proclaiming news of happiness.

    Lord, make me a better herald of your peace!
     
  6. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

    Yes I did have the distinct feeling of a winding down. Since returning I feel the gradual dimming of the light around us. We have Jesus still on the altars of our churches but He wont be there for a time. I really have a sense of darkness decending. So many people are not getting it. I am off to Knock this weekend. I think its important to top up spiritually as much as possible right now.

    Mary
     
  7. MomsCalling

    MomsCalling Principalities

    Let’s see, what happened to me in 1981? A big thing religion-wise. I broke up with my fiancée from my Catholic High School. He joined the Air force without discussing it with me and this did not sit well with me. I started dating an engineer (and agnostic) before the year ended, who I later married and who is the father of my 2 children. I fell away from the church in a big way because of this marriage. He is a good man though, very intelligent and a good provider, and we did well with the children in many respects, except in the Church department. Anyway, we did finally divorce, and in 2001 I married that man from Catholic High School after 20 years apart (and the 20 year anniversary of Medjugorje, though we knew nothing of it at that time). 9 years later, we were off to Medjugorje together! Now we are being overwhelmingly drawn to go back there again next year too.
     
  8. MomsCalling

    MomsCalling Principalities

    I too have thought for a very long time that the apparitions would end on the 30th anniversary. It started for me as just a logical conclusion...3's and 10 year cycles are so important. On top of that, a few years ago I was doing a little dabbling in some writings about Kabbalah and ran across a Rabbi who has a lot of online stuff about this, and the coming end times for them. Well, he had some predictions for the Jewish people and their returning home and some of the prophecies that they believe are on the cusp of occurring, and some timelines and dates popped out at me, like June 24-25, 2011. When I wrote him with my thoughts, he said that what I proposed didn't make sense from his point of view, that it had to be the Jewish calendar days referenced in their teachings, not the modern calendar. I understand his point, but like Ron Conte also does, they are looking for an ancient answer in modern times...I still think this may be a mistake that theologians make. They think it has to be based on old timelines and trends, I think that the old timelines are a lead-in, but we are on a different calendar now and we are in a different age. God works in the present and in the future, and perhaps too much is put into trying to make sense of the past. I think that when a prediction points to a certain month or date in the future, that it may be in our current calendar, rather than the old one that the prediction was made in. Anybody else think about this? I have a long e-mail of what I sent the rabbi, and of course he did not agree, but wrong as it seems by his and Ron's methods, I still wonder if maybe I was onto something...all we can do is wait and see.

    About Medjugorje now, as you all know I too was there twice this year. My observations are this...we are holding on to a traditional feeling of how this has continued for so long. People are trying to keep all the old things alive there, trying to repeat over and over the same habits, the same practices, creating a tradition-like air about it all, which is wonderful and beautiful, and I loved being a part of it. But it’s not really a tradition going on there, it is an event in time. We love the tradition we have created, but we will have to give it up soon. I saw, especially in May, a very exhausted Mirjana. Jakov also was tired, he said he was sick (Mirjana told us this and implied in a joking manner that he was not sick at all, but he was just tired and avoiding making appearances). Mirjana is right now building a very large hotel next to her house, so she can accommodate a LOT more people instead of the 30-35 she can hold at her house now. I couldn’t help but wonder, why now? Perhaps she is preparing for a large increase in pilgrims to happen soon…? It was not near ready when we were there in May/June, so I took that as a sign that nothing big would happen on this-year’s anniversary. This hotel of hers may be something for us to watch. Since she knows dates, I would think that she would make sure this new hotel was completed beforehand.

    I still think a lot points to 2011. Not just for us, but for the Jewish kabbalahists and for so many other things! Every year in these last few I have been hoping for something to happen sooner, but every year it doesn’t happen I think more strongly about 2011. Another possibility might be 2014, the 33 year anniversary, but this doesn’t jive with the 10 year cycle that I do think is significant. However, it seems that Mary is getting extra time, so perhaps these extra 3 years may be given to her for final conversions. However, I also think that if we are so sure of a date, then God will not do it then…he can do whatever he wants, yes he often does flow with certain natural laws that we understand, and he works within nature a lot, which I love. But He and Mary also tell us all the time that our prayers can alter natural laws, so he is telling us right there that we can't predict when these things will happen --- out the window goes all the natural progressions, don’t they? The more we pray, the more we may be changing dates and events and even nature! Our prayers can persuade God to change the laws, change the rules, change dates of events. If this were not true, then what would be the point of praying at all? So forget about precise predictions because we may be changing them every day! I think the only thing we can be certain of are the things that Mary has told us are inevitable…there are things she has told us will not be able to be avoided by our prayers, but she has not said they could not be altered as to when they occur, or even where they occur....there are just so many possibilities! But I am holding my breath for June of 2011, and for more to happen later in the summer or fall of that year. I think it will be a year when something very miraculous will happen. :D
     
  9. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Some thoughts on 2011 & the sense that we must be close to events predicted at Garabandal & St Malachy

    Both Western Latin Rite & Orthodox share a common Easter in 2011

    Good Friday is 22nd April and Easter Sunday is 24th April 2011

    June 24th 2011 = 30th anniversary of Medjugorje

    Joey Lomangino born 27 June 1931 so will be 80 in 27 June 2011

    Pope Benedict [the Pope of the 'end times'] will be 84 on 16 April 2011
    Conchita “The Virgin said to me: “After this Pope only three are left: and later, the end of times.” (Diary of Conchita from 5-6-63)
    End of times here reminds me of Medjugorje as our Lady uses the word time most frequently - this is a time of grace, but the time of grace ends and is followed by God's justice.

    Following Benedict's Pontificate there is according to St Malachy one last Pope of this era known as Peter the Roman. The tribulation begins under his pontificate and it seems that Rome is destroyed and God's Justice will come to the earth.

    In persecutione extrema S.R.E. sedebit Petrus Romanus, qui pascet oves in multis tribulationibus: quibus transactis civitas septicollis diruetur, & Judex tremêdus judicabit populum suum. Finis.
    In extreme persecution, the seat of the Holy Roman Church will be occupied by Peter the Roman, who will feed the sheep through many tribulations, at the term of which the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the formidable Judge will judge his people. The End.
     
  10. darrell

    darrell New Member

    According to the EWTN article, the stage is set for the Pope to visit Russia, possibly in 2011:
    http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=104577

    Recall, Garbandal visionary Conchita stated, "The pope will go to Russia, to Moscow. As soon as he returns to the Vatican, hostilities will break out in different parts of Europe." [The source for this information was also requested. Mr. Weber responded: "Conchita said this in a long conversation at her house on November 14,1965."]

    2011 could in fact be a pivitol year...
    Then again who knows? For we do not know the hour or the day... God will act in His time and His way.
     
  11. Mind the things that are above, not the things that are upon the earth. - Col. iii. 2.


    Whatever happens is meant to happen. Whatever I own, whatever possessions I have; everything gathers dust, gets worn out or becomes obsolete. It is a lot less stressful to "mind the things above" than to worry about was is passing before our eyes, "the things that are above" are lasting and forever, the things here on earth aren't worth worrying about. 2 hour travel time round trip to work and back, 40 hours work week, 8 hours every other Saturday, countless projects around the house, 1 hour Adoration every Tuesday & Thursday night, First Friday Night of Love Devotions every month, Mass on Sundays and sometimes during the week; leaves me with no time to worry about what is passing anyway. No time to watch the news or be concerned about politics, just time for "things that are above".
     
  12. Kathleen

    Kathleen New Member

    Wow- Thats what I call beautiful! You truly live up to your name "themilitantcatholic". :)
    Wonderful way to live. (I quit dusting too- I've quite the layer building up :lol: )
    Kath
     
  13. Mario

    Mario Powers

    themilitantcatholic,

    I admire you for living out your convictions! You are a man after my beautiful wife's heart: focused on the essentials. Now Geralyn, for her part, is an uncanonized saint for putting up for yours truly, Mr. Distracted, for 27 years! :lol:

    Safe in the Father's Arms!
     
  14. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    According to Matthias Chang of Global Research we are headed for a 2nd global bank collapse in early 2011

    Readers of my articles will recall that I have warned as far back as December 2006, that the global banks will collapse when the Financial Tsunami hits the global economy in 2007. And as they say, the rest is history.

    Quantitative Easing (QE I) spearheaded by the Chairman of Federal Reserve, Ben Bernanke delayed the inevitable demise of the fiat shadow money banking system slightly over 18 months.

    That is why in November of 2009, I was so confident to warn my readers that by the end of the first quarter of 2010 at the earliest or by the second quarter of 2010 at the latest, the global economy will go into a tailspin. The recent alarm that the US economy has slowed down and in the words of Bernanke “the recent pace of growth is less vigorous than we expected” has all but vindicated my analysis. He warned that the outlook is uncertain and the economy “remains vulnerable to unexpected developments”.

    Obviously, Bernanke’s words do not reveal the full extent of the fear that has gripped central bankers and the financial elites that assembled at the annual gathering at Jackson Hole, Wyoming. But, you can take it from me that they are very afraid.

    Why?

    Let me be plain and blunt. The “unexpected developments” Bernanke referred to is the collapse of the global banks. This is FED speak and to those in the loop, this is the dire warning.

    So many renowned economists have misdiagnosed the objective and consequences of quantitative easing. Central bankers’ scribes and the global mass media hoodwinked the people by saying that QE will enable the banks to lend monies to cash-starved companies and jump start the economy. The low interest rate regime would encourage all and sundry to borrow, consume and invest.

    This was the fairy tale.

    Then, there were some economists who were worried that as a result of the FED’s printing press (electronic or otherwise) working overtime, hyper-inflation would set in soon after.

    But nothing happened. The multiplier effect of fractional reserve banking did not take off. Bank lending in fact stalled.

    Why?

    What happened?

    Let me explain in simple terms step by step.

    1) All the global banks were up to their eye-balls in toxic assets. All the AAA mortgage-backed securities etc. were in fact JUNK. But in the balance sheets of the banks and their special purpose vehicles (SPVs), they were stated to be worth US$ TRILLIONS.

    2) The collapse of Lehman Bros and AIG exposed this ugly truth. All the global banks had liabilities in the US$ Trillions. They were all INSOLVENT. The central banks the world over conspired and agreed not to reveal the total liabilities of the global banks as that would cause a run on these banks, as happened in the case of Northern Rock in the U.K.

    3) A devious scheme was devised by the FED, led by Bernanke to assist the global banks to unload systematically and in tranches the toxic assets so as to allow the banks to comply with RESERVE REQUIREMENTS under the fractional reserve banking system, and to continue their banking business. This is the essence of the bailout of the global banks by central bankers.

    4) This devious scheme was effected by the FED’s quantitative easing (QE) – the purchase of toxic assets from the banks. The FED created “money out of thin air” and used that “money” to buy the toxic assets at face or book value from the banks, notwithstanding they were all junks and at the most, worth maybe ten cents to the dollar. Now, the FED is “loaded” with toxic assets once owned by the global banks. But these banks cannot declare and or admit to this state of affairs. Hence, this financial charade.

    5) If we are to follow simple logic, the exercise would result in the global banks flushed with cash to enable them to lend to desperate consumers and cash-starved businesses. But the money did not go out as loans. Where did the money go?

    6) It went back to the FED as reserves, and since the FED bought US$ trillions worth of toxic wastes, the “money” (it was merely book entries in the Fed’s books) that these global banks had were treated as “Excess Reserves”. This is a misnomer because it gave the ILLUSION that the banks are cash-rich and under the fractional reserve system would be able to lend out trillions worth of loans. But they did not. Why?

    7) Because the global banks still have US$ trillions worth of toxic wastes in their balance sheets. They are still insolvent under the fractional reserve banking laws. The public must not be aware of this as otherwise, it would trigger a massive run on all the global banks!

    8) Bernanke, the US Treasury and the global central bankers were all praying and hoping that given time (their estimation was 12 to 18 months) the housing market would recover and asset prices would resume to the levels before the crisis. .

    Let me explain: A House was sold for say US$500,000. Borrower has a mortgage of US$450,000 or more. The house is now worth US$200,000 or less. Multiply this by the millions of houses sold between 2000 and 2008 and you will appreciate the extent of the financial black-hole. There is no way that any of the global banks can get out of this gigantic mess. And there is also no way that the FED and the global central bankers through QE can continue to buy such toxic wastes without showing their hands and exposing the lie that these banks are solvent.

    It is my estimation that they have to QE up to US$20 trillion at the minimum. The FED and no central banker would dare “create such an amount of money out of thin air” without arousing the suspicions and or panic of sovereign creditors, investors and depositors. It is as good as declaring officially that all the banks are BANKRUPT.

    9) But there is no other solution in the short and middle term except another bout of quantitative easing, QE II. Given the above caveat, QE II cannot exceed the amount of the previous QE without opening the proverbial Pandora Box.

    10) But it is also a given that the FED will embark on QE II, as under the fractional reserve banking system, if the FED does not purchase additional toxic wastes, the global banks (faced with mounting foreclosures, etc.) will fall short of their reserve requirements.

    11) You will also recall that the FED at the height of the crisis announced that interest will be paid on the so-called “excess reserves” of the global banks, thus enabling these banks to “earn” interest. So what we have is a merry-go-round of monies moving from the right pocket to the left pocket at the click of the computer mouse. The FED creates money, uses it to buy toxic assets, and the same money is then returned to the FED by the global banks to earn interest. By this fiction of QE, banks are flushed with cash which enable them to earn interest. Is it any wonder that these banks have declared record profits?

    12) The global banks get rid of some of their toxic wastes at full value and at no costs, and get paid for unloading the toxic wastes via interest payments. Additionally, some of the “monies” are used by these banks to purchase US Treasuries (which also pay interests) which in turn allows the US Treasury to continue its deficit spending. THIS IS THE BAILOUT RIP OFF of the century.

    Now that you fully understand this SCAM, it is left to be seen how the FED will get away with the next round of quantitative easing – QE II.

    Obviously, the FED and the other central banks are hoping that in time, asset prices will recover and resume their previous values before the crisis. This is a fantasy. QE II will fail just as QE I failed to save the banks.

    The patient is in intensive care and is for all intent and purposes brain dead, although the heart is still pumping albeit faintly. The Too Big To Fail Banks cannot be rescued and must be allowed to be liquidated. It will be painful, but it is necessary before there is recovery. This is a given.

    Warning:

    When the ball hits the ceiling fan, sometime early 2011 at the earliest, there will be massive bank runs.

    I expect that the FED and other central banks will pre-empt such a run and will do the following:

    1) Disallow cash withdrawals from banks beyond a certain amount, say US$1,000 per day; 2) Disallow cash transactions up to a certain amount, say US$10,000 for certain transactions; 3) Transactions (investments) for metals (gold and silver) will be restricted; 4) Worst-case scenario – the confiscation of gold AS HAPPENED IN WORLD WAR II. 5) Imposition of capital controls etc.; 6) Legislations that will compel most daily commercial transactions to be conducted through Debit and or Credit Cards; 7) Legislations to make it a criminal offence for any contraventions of the above.

    Solution:

    Maintain a bank balance sufficient to enable you to comply with the above potential impositions.

    Start diversifying your assets away from dollar assets. Have foreign currencies in sufficient quantities in those jurisdictions where the above anticipated impositions are least likely to be implemented.

    CONCLUSION

    There will be a financial tsunami (round two) the likes of which the world has never seen.

    Global banks will collapse! Be ready.

    Perhaps a banking collape, the collapse of Mammon will be a precursor to the warning and the intervention of God in world affairs. I think this post 'The Pivital Year of 2011' is prophetic.
     
  15. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    There is also panic beginning to set in in the Eurozone - there is an economic tsunami coming and it is unavoidable.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11762500
     
  16. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    I have had a wonderful Christmas with my family and give thanks and praise to God.

    I have a certain 'fear' however, for what 2011 is going to bring - will it be more of the same as in 2010 with many natural disasters or will it be the beginning of real tribulations? Are we about to cross a threshold spirituallly with the Justice of God being executed by his Angels? Will there be a scattering of the darkness with a great illumination from heaven? Or have we a few years yet of grace before these events unfold? I think Medjugorje is the watch-tower of coming events so we need to read carefully the messages of the 2nd and 25th. There was a deepening of the messages in 2010 as our Lady spoke often of the great dangers we face and the darkness of sin and lies that surround us and of the propaganda and deceit that satan is promoting through the mass media.

    In so many ways I agree with the header that 2011 may well be the pivotal year of unfolding but also of de-construction. There may well be a major economic collapse - a financial melt-down - with serious political consequences as governments co-operate to 'solve' the problem taking us one further step to 'one world government'. There may be serious terrorist attacks and also serious earthquakes/tsnami. The foundations may begin to crumble but this is only the beginning ---

    Let us trust in Divine Mercy for without Mercy I would not be posting here!!
     
  17. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Apparently there is a new book, just published which is supposed to be, 'Astounding' and addreses future events; its called, 'It ain't gona happen'..and I am hoping to read it as a friend of mine has just bought it and I am hoping to get a lend of it after he is finished. I think it is quite expensive:

    http://www.medjugorje.com/medjugorje-today/current-information/879-it-aint-gonna-happen-is-astounding.html
     
  18. MomsCalling

    MomsCalling Principalities

    Padraig, please give us a book review when you read it. I already knew about this book, but haven't ordered it yet. This is published by "A Friend of Medjugorje" by Caritas. Caritas comes up in question now and then...are they good for us to follow, or do they have too much of a financial agenda? Miki Musa told us not to buy things from their store and I have heard that Mirjana does not like to work with them anymore, yet Marjia works with them all the time. Anybody care to chime in?
     

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