The church does not need to change

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by "Quis ut Deus", Oct 10, 2021.

  1. "Quis ut Deus"

    "Quis ut Deus" Powers Staff Member

    I remember when I was a young man I had a conversation with a very very holy Italian priest we got into a conversation about the direction of the church, I recall I said to him Father the church does not need to change to suit the people, the people need to change to suit the church, he grabbed my hand and smiled with such vigor, yes he proclaimed yes, well that was thirty odd years ago, how sad I see this in the news, may our good God help and forgive us..
    Pope Francis launches mass consultation on Church reform
    Suzanne, lynnfiat, Francine and 7 others like this.
  2. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    So the Church has to listen to the laity who on the whole are the most poorly catechised Catholics in history.

    How about teaching the laity the fullness of the truth,?
    Suzanne, lynnfiat, Ananchal and 7 others like this.
  3. non sum dignus

    non sum dignus Archangels

    I wonder if the apostolic exhortation that is supossed to follow and reflect all this "listening" (and the 2023 synod) is already written.
    Suzanne and "Quis ut Deus" like this.
  4. Luan Ribeiro

    Luan Ribeiro Archangels

    I think perhaps he does not write an apostolic exhortation and leave the final conclusion to dioceses or episcopal conferences around the world in the name of the Church's synodality.
    "Quis ut Deus" likes this.
  5. Clare A

    Clare A Archangels

    The Church certainly doesn’t need to change. In any case, doctrine develops over time; the teachings cannot ‘change’. People today prefer emotion to than reason and as QUD says, they need to change, not the Church.

    The Church isn’t some democratic institution, but a hierarchy by divine will. Unfortunately the current leader imposes his will by wielding raw power. It is an abuse of his office though it’s above my pay grade to say so. Purges and sackings and even frame ups (Cardinal Pell) make this little sheep uneasy.

    There’s also a climate of fear which I can speak of. I was in Rome about four years ago with a Catholic journalist, working on a project about Pope Benedict. It was eerie that no one mentioned the current Pope’s name. Very few would talk to us in case it looked as if they were taking sides - one Pope against another, although that was not our intention at all. Eventually we found a Cardinal who agreed to be interviewed who knows Ratzinger well and is too old to care about his career.

    Rome had an undercurrent of palpable unease. I can only say what I experienced and I won’t forget it.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
  6. Christy Beth

    Christy Beth Archangels

    Maybe some serious prayer time is needed for the lay people. I mean, we need to pray for our leaders that they won't make any false moves. And prayers that all will turn to God on our knees to preserve the Church for whatever lays ahead. I think we are in for some serious spiritual warfare. The devil knows his time is short, and he is about to pull off a large scale attack and we can't be caught asleep at the wheel.
    Clare A and Agnes McAllister like this.
  7. Malachi

    Malachi Archangels

    A three word phrase that gives me the fear: "We are church"
    Pure boke
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  8. Luan Ribeiro

    Luan Ribeiro Archangels

    I was thinking that if the pope were to grant any deliberative power to dioceses with lay participation, we would all be called upon to defend the preservation of Church dogmas at the local level; it would be a separation of the chaff and the wheat depending on our position, and it would also be analogous to the Jewish people choosing between Christ and Barabbas.
    Joan J, lynnfiat, Clare A and 2 others like this.
  9. AED

    AED Powers

    The WORST slogan ever! Clear signal to who we are dealing with.
    Suzanne, lynnfiat and Malachi like this.
  10. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

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  11. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Thank you, Lynne. I appreciate Cardinal Mueller's comments within the article:

    The former prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Gerhard Müller, has previously attacked the modern notion of synodality, saying that “its original defect, which consists of the political misunderstanding that the Church revolved around power that now has to be limited and shared ‘democratically,’ must not be exaggerated.”

    “In reality, the spiritual authority of the bishops and the mission of the laity is at the service of revealed truth and the eternal salvation of all those for whom Jesus Christ sacrificed His life on the cross,” he added.

    Come Lord Jesus!
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  12. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    The Church Francis wants to shape looks more like the Presbyterian Church a democratic form of assembly, which stresses the active, representational leadership of both ministers and church members (elders/laypersons).

    I think he has forgotten what Christ said to Peter.
    HeavenlyHosts and Clare A like this.
  13. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

    This is what Our Lady told Fr. Gobbi back on Dec. 31, 1992 (#485):
    “By accepting the Protestant doctrine, people will hold that the Mass is not a sacrifice, but only a sacred meal, that is to say, a remembrance of that which Jesus did at his Last Supper. And thus, the celebration of Holy Mass will be suppressed. In this abolition of the daily Sacrifice consists the horrible sacrilege accomplished by the Antichrist, which will last about three and a half years, namely, one thousand two hundred and ninety days.”

    Our Blessed Mother told us all that is coming to the Church many years ago. I highly suggest that all read “To the Priests, Our Lady’s Beloved Sons” The Marian Movement of Priests.
    AED likes this.
  14. Mario

    Mario Powers

    It's been on my bookshelf for a number of years. It is very perceptive in describing the advance of freemasonry's influence in the life of the Church.(y):(
    AED likes this.
  15. Joan J

    Joan J HolySpiritCome!

    It would seem to matter all the more finding traditional priests focused on the True Magisterium!
    Luan Ribeiro and Mario like this.
  16. Luan Ribeiro

    Luan Ribeiro Archangels

    REVELATION 12:3-4
    " And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

    And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."

    Sister Lucia said that the content of the third secret was contained in the book of Revelation between chapters 8 and 13; and Revelation 12 seems to indicate that 1/3 of the priests will fall into apostasy.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
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