RIP, Vatican II Catholicism (1962-2018)

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by BrianK, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    There is more to this than we know.
    The diabolical forces in the Vatican are capable of much more evil than we think they are.
    Just look at the known cases of whistleblowers in the Catholic Church who end up dead - a few have been discussed on other threads quite recently.
    The truth will come out some day.
    Agnes rose, DivineMercy and AED like this.
  2. gracia

    gracia Archangels

    I think that Sister Lucia was hidden away from the world on purpose, but not replaced. Yes, men with incredible power and insight often fail to act. And create problems. That is sad, but we can make up for that! Fatima is very simple, in many ways. Be little, pray the Rosary, be very, very good. We can do that!
    Mario, Carol55, HeavenlyHosts and 2 others like this.
  3. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I think this line would make God smile :)

    In some ways we must be like little children.
  4. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    So many holy and educated people interacted with Sr Lucia
    Not too mention her family
    I agree that there are evil people who are capable of anything, but there are too many people involved here that would know if she was dead or faked.
    Common sense
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
    Praetorian likes this.
  5. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Sg, I think it is wise to at least investigate other alleged apparitions which appear to be quite plausible but of course, we all choose for ourselves whether or not we do so. I too focus on the message of Our Lady of Fatima but not only on this message as you have suggested and, again, that is up to you. I also belief that the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima on October 13, 1917 is one of the greatest predicted miracles to have taken place.

    Personally, I am interested in investigating the possibility that this seer received a locution from Our Lord to consecrate the world annually on a holyday of Our Lady, that is all. Iow, I am not at all claiming to know that this in fact true but I am interested in investigating it some more.

    I knew of this seer, Blessed Alexandrina Maria da Costa, from the site Mystics of the Church but I was unfamiliar with the alleged locution which Colin Donovan appears to have mentioned on the Women of Grace episode which Dolours discovered.

    This seer was made a Blessed, s Servant of God, by the Church and therefore, the Church has given credibility to her alleged locutions. We know that the Church does not require Catholics to believe even approved apparitions but one of the main focuses of MOG is discerning apparitions from Our Lady and Our Lord.

    You and others here might be interested in reading what Mystics of the Church have stated about this seer...

    Blessed Alexandrina da Costa of Balasar (1904-1955) –Extraordinary mystic and victim soul
    The following is from the Vatican's own website and includes a link to the homily of Pope Saint John Paull II when he beatified Blessed Alexandrina Maria da Costa in 2004. In addition, be sure to take note of the date of her death - the 38th Anniversary of the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima 10/13/1955,

    Alexandrina Maria da Costa (1904-1955)


    Alexandrina Maria da Costa was born on 30 March 1904 in Balasar, Portugal. She received a solid Christian education from her mother and her sister, Deolinda, and her lively, well-mannered nature made her likeable to everyone.

    Her unusual physical strength and stamina also enabled her to do long hours of heavy farm work in the fields, thus helping the family income.

    When she was 12, Alexandrina became sick with an infection and nearly died; the consequences of this infection would remain with her as she grew up and would become the "first sign" of what God was asking of her: to suffer as a "victim soul".

    The consequences of sin

    When Alexandrina was 14, something happened that left a permanent imprint on her, both physically and spiritually: it gave her a face-to-face look at the horror and consequences of sin.

    On Holy Saturday of 1918, while Alexandrina, Deolinda and a young apprentice were busily sewing, three men violently entered their home and attempted to sexually violate them. To preserve her purity, Alexandrina jumped from a window, falling four metres to the ground.

    Her injuries were many, and the doctors diagnosed her condition as "irreversible": it was predicted the paralysis she suffered would only get worse.

    Until age 19, Alexandrina was still able to "drag herself" to church where, hunched over, she would remain in prayer, to the great amazement of the parishioners. With her paralysis and pain worsening, however, she was forced to remain immobile, and from 14 April 1925 until her death - approximately 30 years - she would remain bedridden, completely paralyzed.

    Alexandrina continued to ask the Blessed Mother for the grace of a miraculous healing, promising to become a missionary if she were healed.

    Little by little, however, God helped her to see that suffering was her vocation and that she had a special call to be the Lord's "victim". The more Alexandrina "understood" that this was her mission, the more willingly she embraced it.

    She said: "Our Lady has given me an even greater grace: first, abandonment; then, complete conformity to God's will; finally, the thirst for suffering".

    Mission to suffer with Christ

    The desire to suffer continued to grow in her the more her vocation became clear: she understood that she was called to open the eyes of others to the effects of sin, inviting them to conversion, and to offer a living witness of Christ's passion, contributing to the redemption of humanity.

    And so it was that from 3 October 1938 until 24 March 1942, Alexandrina lived the three-hour "passion" of Jesus every Friday, having received the mystical grace to live in body and soul Christ's suffering in his final hours. During these three hours, her paralysis was "overcome", and she would relive the Stations of the Cross, her movements and gestures accompanied by excruciating physical and spiritual pain. She was also diabolically assaulted and tormented with temptations against the faith and with injuries inflicted on her body.

    Human misunderstanding and incredulity were also a great cross for her, especially when those she most expected would "assist" her - members and leaders of the Church - were adding to her crucifixion.

    An investigation conducted by the Curia of Braga resulted in a circular letter written by the Archbishop which contained a series of "prohibitions" regarding Alexandrina's case. It was the result of a negative verdict made by a commission of priests.

    In addition and by way of spiritual comfort, after her spiritual director, a Jesuit priest who had helped her from 1934 to 1941, stopped assisting her, a Salesian priest, Fr Umberto Pasquale, came to her aid in 1944.

    Nourished only by the Eucharist

    On 27 March 1942, a new phase began for Alexandrina which would continue for 13 years and seven months until her death. She received no nourishment of any kind except the Holy Eucharist, at one point weighing as few as 33 kilos (approximately 73 pounds).

    Medical doctors remained baffled by this phenomenon and began to conduct various tests on Alexandrina, acting in a very cold and hostile way towards her. This increased her suffering and humiliation, but she remembered the words that Jesus himself spoke to her one day: "You will very rarely receive consolation... I want that while your heart is filled with suffering, on your lips there is a smile".

    As a result, those who visited or came into contact with Alexandrina always found a woman who, although in apparent physical discomfort, was always outwardly joyful and smiling, transmitting to all a profound peace. Few understood what she was deeply suffering and how real was her interior desolation.

    Fr Pasquale, who stayed close to Alexandrina throughout these years, ordered Alexandrina's sister to keep a diary of her words and her mystical experiences.

    In 1944, Alexandrina became a member of the "Union of Salesian Cooperators" and offered her suffering for the salvation of souls and for the sanctification of youth. She kept a lively interest in the poor as well as in the spiritual health of those who sought out her counsel.

    "Do not offend Jesus anymore!'

    As a "testimony" to the mission to which God had called her, Alexandrina desired the following words written on her tombstone: "Sinners, if the dust of my body can be of help to save you, come close, walk over it, kick it around until it disappears. But never sin again: do not offend Jesus anymore! Sinners, how much I want to tell you.... Do not risk losing Jesus for all eternity, for he is so good. Enough with sin. Love Jesus, love him!".

    Alexandrina died on 13 October 1955. Her last words: "I am happy, because I am going to Heaven".​

    Homily of John Paul II
    Yes, when I stated that it may have been a coincidence that Pope Saint John Paul II consecrated the world on 3/25/1984 - the Annunciation, I suppose I should have stated a coincidence for obvious reasons. I didn't think that I needed to specify that in my post but since JPII appears to be very familiar with this seer, it may have been more than a coincidence.
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  6. Agnes rose

    Agnes rose Archangels

    You dont realize the evil that will threaten or kill anyone who talks the truth. Satanists. Lucy would never lie so yes they hid her away but there is no way that the lucy presented to us later always smiling and laughing is the same lucy. She said in interviews that the consecration was accepted by God and all is well. Plus her chin shrunk. Common sense .
  7. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I do realize the evil. And I still maintain my story, but we can agree to disagree, Agnes Rose.
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  8. Agnes rose

    Agnes rose Archangels

    Of course. I respect your opinion on it. Im in the minority but its just something i feel.
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  9. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Sometimes we have to pay attention to how we feel if it’s strong enough. I might have to eat my hat, but at this time I am not ready to do that lol:p
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  10. Agnes rose

    Agnes rose Archangels

    I feel the same. If im wrong im wrong and i accept that . i do feel that alot of stuff will come out soon. I feel like God wants us to know everything. We just have to be patient.
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  11. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I hope you are right.
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  12. Agnes rose

    Agnes rose Archangels

    Im praying my rosary right now with that intention. ❤ and for all in this group
    Patty, Denise P, gracia and 5 others like this.
  13. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Thank you!:love:
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  14. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I like this kind of "arguing" ;)

    There is wisdom and humility in admitting we may be wrong about things that are not certain.
    gracia, Carol55 and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  15. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Thanks (y)
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  16. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Dolours, You may not have the time yet but I think when you do get the time it would be helpful to read through the information and the links on my following post to give you some background on Blessed Alexandrina Maria da Costa #185 . I also discovered that she is referred to as the Fourth Seer of Fatima by some people in Portugal and many of the writings about her are only available in Portuguese.

    I too considered what you stated above, that Pope Saint John Paul II may have chosen March 25, 1984 because of his devotion to Our Lady but since it seems very likely that he was aware of Blessed Alexandrina's prophecies he may have also chosen that day because he knew that Our Lord made this request through this seer.

    I also discovered in one English book available about this seer, it is stated that Pope Pius XII in St. Peter’s Basilica on December 8th, 1942, feast of the Immaculate Conception, solemnly renewed his consecration of the world which was originally made on October 31, 1942 but I do find it odd that this not mentioned on EWTN's site.

    In addition, I think that the following link from EWTN is helpful, . From the link the following passages are directly related to our discussion,

    During this period, she was entrusted by Our Lord with the propagation of the message of Our Lady of Fatima. After she had received Communion one morning Jesus reportedly told her, "Through the love which you have for my blessed Mother, tell your spiritual director that as I asked Margaret Mary [St Margaret Mary Alacoque] for devotion to my divine Heart, so I ask you to urge the consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart of my Mother." From that day, Alexandrina offered herself as a victim to achieve this expressed wish of Our Lord.

    In September 1936, Fr Pinho forwarded to Cardinal Pacelli [later Pope Pius XII] in Rome, Alexandrina's request for the consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. The former was strongly influenced by Our Lord's reported words to the sick woman,

    <I reveal to you how the consecration of the world to the Mother of men will occur. It will be effected first by the Holy Father in Rome, and then by priests in all the churches. If the world is converted she will reign, and through her victory will be obtained.>

    The following year, and again in 1939 the Holy See sent a noted theologian, Fr Paul Durao, to examine Alexandrina and question her closely regarding her reported mysticism and messages. On 5 May 1938, Alexandrina wrote to Fr Pinho, who was preaching the spiritual exercises of St Ignatius to the Portuguese bishops assembled at Fatima: "Jesus has told me, 'I give you the treasures of my Heart overflowing with love; distribute them to the world.' " She added, "I offer everything for the successful outcome of the exercises of the bishops. I help them with the sufferings of my body and soul, which are many."

    Significantly, at the end of the exercises, the Portuguese bishops, at the invitation of Fr Pinho, addressed themselves to the Holy Father as follows: "Humbly prostrate at the feet of your Holiness, we earnestly implore you to consecrate the entire world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary as soon as you judge the moment opportune, so that through her mediation, the world can be liberated from the dangers that threaten it on every side."

    When news of this petition reached Alexandrina, she was greatly consoled, but shortly after Our Lord told her, "As a sign that it is my Will that the world be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of my Mother, I will make you suffer my Passion until the Holy Father has decided to implement this consecration." The words mystified Alexandrina, but a few weeks later they were clarified by an awesome event, described in the following chapter.

    The war clouds were now gathering all over Europe and in March 1939, Cardinal Pacelli was elected to the papacy as Pope Pius XII. Our Lord told Alexandrina, "This is the pope who will consecrate the world to the Heart of my Mother." In anguished sorrow he went on to deplore the "numberless grave sins" committed all over the world and how Divine Justice had no choice but to "punish mankind". Alexandrina immediately offered herself as a victim for peace "in union with Our Lady". Our Lord accepted her offering and promised that "Portugal will be saved from the war" and that the Holy Father would be "physically spared", but would have to suffer morally a great deal.

    She was right. And a great sigh of joy escaped her as she realised that the consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary had been decided on. Early on Good Friday morning she heard Jesus announce to her in a tone of triumph, "Glory to Mary! The world will be consecrated to her. It belongs to Jesus and to the Mother of Jesus." [The consecration was effected by Pope Pius XII on 31 October 1942, using the very titles that had been revealed to Alexandrina: "Queen of the Universe, Queen of the Most Holy Rosary, Refuge of the human race, Victress in all God's battles." Days later came the "turning point" of the war, according to Sir Winston Churchill.]

    We do not know if the writer was conscious of what Jesus said to Alexandrina on 1 October 1954:

    <I want you to set fire to the world with this love of my Divine Heart, today extinguished in men's hearts. Set fire! Set fire! I want to give my love to all men. I want to be loved by all. They do not accept it and do not love me. By you, I want this love to be kindled in all humanity, just as by you the world was consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of my Blessed Mother.>


    Thank you again for bringing this seer to our attention but I wish that there was more information about her in English.

    Blessed Alexandrina Maria Da Costa

    O Jesus, who art pleased with simple and humble persons, who are so often ignored, forgotten and despised by men, raise to the glory of Thy altars Thy humble Servant Alexandrina, who always desired to live hidden from the world and aloof from its vanities and praises. Thou well knowest, Lord Jesus, how in our times there is need of lessons in holiness, which is the true fulfilment of every human and Christian vocation and, consequently, the elevation of a creature to the supreme height of moral beauty. Invest then, O Jesus, Thy Servant with the immortal halo of glory and hear our prayers, which we through her intercession offer to Thee; especially grant us the favour which we ask ( mention your petition here) if it be for the honour of Thy Blessed Name, the glory of the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the salvation of sinners, on whose behalf the pious Alexandrina so wholly and generously offered herself a victim. Amen.
    Blessed Alexandrina Maria da Costa, pray for us!
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  17. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Thanks Carol. I'm aiming to read through the linked documents when I'm not in a rush. Maybe then I will find an answer to the first question which crossed my mind: if Heaven wanted the consecration of the world rather than Russia specifically, why was Sr. Lucia so adamant about the necessity to name Russia until after Pope John Paul did the second consecration? Also, if Fr. Amorth's account is accurate, Pope John Paul wanted to specifically mention Russia but didn't because of pressure from Vatican diplomats. If Fr. Amorth's account is correct, it suggests that Pope John Paul didn't know about Blessed Alexandrina. I believe that Heaven permitted the attempted assassination of Pope John Paul to get his attention because he had a special devotion to the Blessed Mother.

    Also, I'm a little wary of claims by any visionaries linking themselves to Fatima, especially when Sr. Lucia was still alive. That's not to say that Blessed Alexandrina was faking the messages she received. Maybe I'll understand better after I've read through the links at a time when I'm in the right frame of mind to take it all in.
  18. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    I have wondered this also. Thanks for bringing it up, it is funny how these things work sometimes.
    Dolours likes this.
  19. Roger Buck

    Roger Buck Angels

    I won't be wanting to lynch you, Padraig : - ) I am reading and appreciating what you say here, often very much indeed. And, as you know, I am sometimes in that same ICKSP instigated Sunday Mass you are (hopefully tomorrow, although I may not feel well enough.)

    I agree that there is a "simplistic black and white narrative" sometimes. And, yes, alas, bitter in-fighting. (Which is I deliberately titled my book The GENTLE Traditionalist.)

    ICKSP do seem quite different to me, charitable and faithful. It may interest you, though, that in French interviews Monsignor Wach, founder of ICKSP, says bluntly: "I am not a traditionalist". He also speaks of his connection to St John Paul II, who ordained him.

    I suspect Monsignor Wach is very awake to the the same issues you are.
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  20. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    I thought people in this forum may find this long two part interview to professor Thomas Pink interesting . It exposes in a most incredible dive way the current state of affairs in the Church as it’s roots in Vatican II, addresses issues like dialogue and spiritual warfare, grace and salvation theology vs salvation theatre, etc...

    Here is an excerpt from part 2:

    To sum up what you said in the first part of this interview: what we have is a faulty premise, which is perhaps an overly optimistic view of human nature?

    And of the Fall, really. I’ll say a bit more about that because it’s clearly bound up in, I’m afraid, the whole period of the Second Vatican Council.

    You can see the change in the new liturgy. If you look at the historical rite of baptism in the Church, it treats the unbaptized child as quite literally living under the dominion of the devil. The traditional rite involves a series of exorcisms in which the devil is repeatedly and very explicitly called upon to leave the child, to depart. Now, I think a lot of modern Catholics find that very disturbing, and these exorcisms have unfortunately been removed from the modern rite of baptism. But Catholics should realize that that these exorcisms present dogmatic teaching. The Council of Florence dogmatically teaches that, thanks to the Fall, children are born under the dominion of the devil – and baptism is the only means of escape.

    The unconverted world, the unbaptized world, is under the dominion of the prince of this world. And of course, if you do see the unconverted world in those terms, you won’t expect to live in peaceful dialogue, in harmony, with it for any length of time. Of course, you have to dialogue with parts of it, to coexist, but you’re not going to see that as a long-term strategy for conflict avoidance. Aside from the fact that you owe people to remove them from the dominion of the devil.
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