Putin, well intended or not ?

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by Elisa, Mar 24, 2014.

  1. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I am reminded for some reason of something that happened many years ago when I was about 16 years old. At that time the was here had been going on for many years and their were many deaths.

    A young Catholic woman and her fiancee were going home one night by taxi when they were stopped by a check point of militant Protestant paramilitaries. But her and her boy friend were dragged off into the night she screaming at the top of her voice. I heard years later that the taxi driver, himself a Protestant was later admitted to a mental hospital and never recovered from hearing the poor girls screams.

    Anyway my father at the time was a newspaper Editor and when the girl and the boys poor tortured bodies were found he got to see the girls body and details of how she had been tortured to death.

    I can only say her sufferings were simple unimaginable, the very worst you could imagine from Hannibal Lector and Hollywood simply pale into insignificance. My father shared some of these things with me, I really wish looking back he never had.

    I guess what I am trying to say is , I have had a great deal of first hand experience with evil deeds and evil people in my life, right up front. I think this has changed me and the way I look at the world. It has made me more aware, look at things differently.

    When I was talking to the Jewish guy , Spencer from Brooklyn in Church a few days ago, he said something to me about the Shoah that struck a chord. He said that now Jewish people after the Holocaust , 'Felt insecure'. I know at once what he meant. To meet evil face to face results in a loss of innocence.

    I guess that's what I am trying to say, I have long, long long lost my innocence where evil is concerned..and yes it has forced me to take a stand , to be judgemental,if you like, about it.

    We heard a few weeks ago , here in the West that they are burying men women and children alive in Iraq. I think the vast majority of people in the West do not know how to come to terms with these things; I think they think that it is for all countries, other countries , other religions. They shelter themselves in myths. They preserve their innocence.

    But I long, long ago lost my innocence. Evil is all around us. A very large part of me wishes I could turn the clock back and regain it. But I can't. The genie is out of the box.

    I don't know if I explain myself too well. But I think that is why I regard Christ's words differently than others.

    My own impression of Jesus is, perhaps I am wrong , but that Jesus Himself had gone face to face with evil Himself.

    Anyhow, as I say very interesting.
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  2. kathy k

    kathy k Guest

    I asked the blessed Mother what she had to say about this, and she gave it to me. So, thank our beautiful, wise mother!
  3. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    Your experience in Ireland is so different from United States...we have lived a sheltered life. We have no idea what its like to be hated. Thats what the jewish people must feel in Israel. In the big picture taking bad about real evil has nothing to do with being judgmental. I think our Holy Father was talking about how we interact with each other. Calling a spade a spade is very important...especially when you have seen the devastation of evil.

    Brother al
  4. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Some people are so evil Al, when you meet them it is like encountering the devil himslef. It makes your mouth fall open in utter horror.

    In 'normal' country's were the rule of law runs I thin k we are sheltered from this. It does not mean that evil is not there simply that it camouflages itself.

    There was a really wonderful book by a psychiatrist call Scott Peck (who died a few years back) called , 'People of the lie'.


    In it he tells stories of evil people he came across who were totally evil. One story was of a very successful , well thought of professional couple who had two teenage sons. The sons were brought to him for treatment. It became clear to Scott that the reason why the boys were in trouble was the parents, who loved no one, not even each other but themselves

    One of the sons committed suicide by shooting himself dead with a firearm bought for him by his parents when he turned 13.

    On the remaining son's birthday when he too became 13 the parents presented the child with the firearm his brother had killed himself the year before. A clear unspoken invitation by the parents that he too should do them both the favour of killing himself.

    People of the Lie Quotes

    When I say that evil has to do with killing, I do not mean to restrict myself to corporeal murder. Evil is that which kills spirit. There are various essential attributes of life -- particularly human life -- such as sentience, mobility, awareness, growth, autonomy, will. It is possible to kill or attempt to kill one of these attributes without actually destroying the body. Thus we may "break" a horse or even a child without harming a hair on its head.

    Erich Fromm was acutely sensitive to this fact when he broadened the definition of necrophilia to include the desire of certain people to control others-to make them controllable, to foster their dependency, to discourage their capacity to think for themselves, to diminish their unpredectibility and originalty, to keep them in line. Distinguishing it from a "biophilic" person, one who appreciates and fosters the variety of life forms and the uniqueness of the individual, he demonstrated a "necrophilic character type," whose aim it is to avoid the inconvenience of life by transforming others into obedient automatons, robbing them of their humanity.

    Evil then, for the moment, is the force, residing either inside or outside of human beings, that seeks to kill life or liveliness. And goodness is its opposite. Goodness is that which promotes life and liveliness.”
    M. Scott Peck, People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil

    “I feel compelled to make another 'nonapology.' Many readers are likely to be concerned about my use of masculine pronouns in relation to God. I think I both understand and appreciate this concern. It is a matter to which I have given much thought. I have generally been a strong supporter of the women's movement and action that is reasonable to combat sexist language. But first of all, God is not neuter. He is exploding with life and love and even sexuality of a sort. So 'It' is not appropriate. Certainly I consider God androgynous. He is as gentle and tender and nurturing and maternal as any woman could ever be. Nonetheless, culturally determined though it may be, I subjectively experience His reality as more masculine than feminine. While He nurtures us, He also desires to penetrate us, and while we more often than not flee from His love like a reluctant virgin, He chases after us with a vigor in the hunt that we most typically associate with males. As CS Lewis put it, in relation to God we are all female. Moreover, whatever our gender or conscious theology, it is our duty---our obligation---in response to His love to attempt to give birth, like Mary, to Christ in ourselves and in others.

    "I shall, however, break with tradition and use the neuter for Satan. While I know Satan to be lustful to penetrate us, I have not in the least experienced this desire as sexual or creative---only hateful and destructive. It is hard to determine the sex of a snake.”
    M. Scott Peck, People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil


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  5. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    Perhaps, just like the US has no real plans to destroy ISIS, just degrade and then get rid of President Assad and therefore the Russian fleet in the Med and the gas pipeline thru Syria. And by doing so hand over all the rest of the Syrian Christians to ISIS for slaughter. Pure evil.
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  6. Indy

    Indy Praying

    I completely agree picadillo, there are some like John Kerry and John McCain licking their lips now at the thought of toppling Assad and pumping lots of Gas. Could this lead to the destruction of Damascas? I pray for Myrna Nazzour and her family and all Christians in Syria. You are right, this is pure evil.
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  7. Mike

    Mike New Member

    Padraig, thanks for this. The story is eerily similar to what happenned to hundreds of Ukrainians who were arrrested in areas of Ukraine invaded by Putin's terrorists, army, and separatists under the Stalinist laws which the Russians used to arrest people. The Russian terrorists' commander, a Russian GRU agent Colonel Igor Girkin (from Moscow, not Ukraine), set up his headquarters, in the city of Slovyansk, Donetsk after the Russian 'volunteers' invaded. Slovyansk became a nightmare. Anybody who merely raised suspicion risked arrest, torture and murder under Stalinist laws. Volodymyr Rybak was a local Ukrainian politican in Slovyansk who was an honest, dutiful, highly respected man. Girkin, who was sent in by Putin to head the Russian separatists in Ukraine, gave an order to another Russian GRU military officer Igor Bezler (whose men prefer to call him with pride "The Demon" or "Bes" in Russian), with some justification it seems, to "neutralize" the Ukrainian Rybak. Rybak was arrested, taken to the pro-Russian terrorists' dungeon for prisoners in Slovyansk, had his head smashed in, stabbed multiple times, in some places with an axe, and tortured. He died. Putin's man, Girkin, had him killed, then complained humanely "Rybak's corpse is just lying here and beginning to stink. Get rid of it". His corpse was dumped into a river along with other innocents who were later found. (GRU stands for Russian military intelligence, as it stood for Soviet military intelligence before).

    Slovyansk has been liberated from Putin's terrorists in Ukraine, and the mass graves of those murdered by Putin's then-chief in Ukraine, Igor Girkin, are now being exhumed.

    You spoke of checkpoints. It was at many of these Russian terrorists' checkpoints where innocent Ukrainians were arrested or kidnapped, among them Catholic priests. They were tortured by Putin's forces sent into Ukraine. One Ukrainian Catholic priest is still in shock at the torture he underwent by these pro-Russian forces. The Catholic priest had come face to face with evil. He was only trying to serve his flock. He and the others captured and tortured by the pro-Russian terrorists deserve out prayers.

    You can also read about Rybak "In Cold Blood in Ukraine" from a correspondent from the Daily Beast who covered this story:
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2014
  8. Mike

    Mike New Member

    That BBC Panorama program, which I saw also, is pretty good in showing the evidence that a Russian Buk system, most likely manned by Russian soldiers, shot the Malaysian plane from a city in Ukraine called Snizhne under the control of Russian gun-men. Sweeney even got to interview two brave men who risked their lives in indentifying the solidiers firing the BUK at the time of the Malaysian crash as from Russia proper, not Ukraine. Sweeney also showed the complete lack of credibility in the Kremlin's explanation(s) for how the Plane could have been shot down. Heck, the Russian terrorist leaders Igor Girkin and Bezler were already bragging on social media for having shot the plane down, erroneously claiming it was a Ukrainian cargo jet, but after finding out it was a passenger jet, the Russian terrorists quickly took down their posts. Much of the arguments coming out in support of the Kremlin's denials are from leftist or completely anti-Western progressive sites, which remarkably are accepted without question by some Catholics.

    The men interviewed on Panorama were people who well-knew Putin like Gleb Pavlovsky. Edward Lucas was also interviewed and Lilia Shevtstova.
  9. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    "Much of the arguments coming out in support of the Kremlin's denials are from leftist or completely anti-Western progressive sites, which remarkably are accepted without question by some Catholics."

    Totally false Mike.
  10. Russia stations warships off coast of Australia for G-20


    BRISBANE, Australia — Vladimir Putin is underlining his presence at a major summit of world leaders in Australia by stationing warships in waters off the country’s northeastern coast, prompting the Australian prime minister to angrily accuse Russia of trying to reclaim the “lost glories” of the Soviet Union.

    The diplomatic drama, which has been simmering since a Malaysia Airlines plane was shot down over an area of Ukraine controlled by Russian-backed separatists in July, threatened to overshadow Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s goal of keeping this weekend’s G-20 summit focused on economic growth.

    But Abbott, who had previously said he would physically confront the Russian president over the Flight MH17 disaster that killed 298 people, including 38 Australian citizens and residents, did little to dampen tensions with his latest critique of Putin’s Russia.

    In recent days, four Russian warships have entered international waters off the Australian coast to coincide with Putin’s visit to Australia for the summit that brings together the leaders of the world’s 20 biggest industrialized and developing economies. Australia, in turn, sent three warships of its own to monitor them.

    The Russian embassy said Friday that Russia’s Pacific fleet was testing its range, and could be used as security for Putin.
  11. andree

    andree Powers

    Putin's recent speech at the Valdai club is available in English. He says some interesting things again.


    We look in amazement at the processes underway in the countries which have been traditionally looked at as the standard-bearers of progress. Of course, the social and cultural shocks that are taking place in the United States and Western Europe are none of our business; we are keeping out of this. Some people in the West believe that an aggressive elimination of entire pages from their own history, “reverse discrimination” against the majority in the interests of a minority, and the demand to give up the traditional notions of mother, father, family and even gender, they believe that all of these are the mileposts on the path towards social renewal.

    Listen, I would like to point out once again that they have a right to do this, we are keeping out of this. But we would like to ask them to keep out of our business as well. We have a different viewpoint, at least the overwhelming majority of Russian society – it would be more correct to put it this way – has a different opinion on this matter. We believe that we must rely on our own spiritual values, our historical tradition and the culture of our multiethnic nation.

    The advocates of so-called ‘social progress’ believe they are introducing humanity to some kind of a new and better consciousness. Godspeed, hoist the flags as we say, go right ahead. The only thing that I want to say now is that their prescriptions are not new at all. It may come as a surprise to some people, but Russia has been there already. After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society. The destruction of age-old values, religion and relations between people, up to and including the total rejection of family (we had that, too), encouragement to inform on loved ones – all this was proclaimed progress and, by the way, was widely supported around the world back then and was quite fashionable, same as today. By the way, the Bolsheviks were absolutely intolerant of opinions other than theirs.

    This, I believe, should call to mind some of what we are witnessing now. Looking at what is happening in a number of Western countries, we are amazed to see the domestic practices, which we, fortunately, have left, I hope, in the distant past. The fight for equality and against discrimination has turned into aggressive dogmatism bordering on absurdity, when the works of the great authors of the past – such as Shakespeare – are no longer taught at schools or universities, because their ideas are believed to be backward. The classics are declared backward and ignorant of the importance of gender or race. In Hollywood memos are distributed about proper storytelling and how many characters of what colour or gender should be in a movie. This is even worse than the agitprop department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.
  12. AED

    AED Powers

    If I take this at face value I would have to say hd is the only leader of any stature who "gets it" but of course he goes against the narrative . "Bolshevicks were intolerant of all other opinions"
    To his statement I would add "When communism comes again...."
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  13. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Andree, Thank you for posting this. I heard a little bit about this on the news and I meant to research it for more details and then I forgot about it.

    I agree with AED's comment ("When communism comes again....") and I'll add that I am also reminded of what Our Lady of Fatima stated, that the consecration of Russia will be done but it will be done late (in 1984 by Saint John Paul II) and that Russia will have already spread its errors.

    I'm thankful that Putin stated this but I wonder how many people have taken notice.

    Jesus I trust in you.+
  14. jackzokay

    jackzokay Archangels

    I'm partial to an oul Bud myself..
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  15. Indy

    Indy Praying

    My thoughts on Putin and Russia recently are, yes there seems to be a resurgence of Christianity but if that country really converted would they not have asked for forgiveness from the eastern block countries that suffered so much under their rule for so long? I assume not which indicates a dangerous level of pride still exists.
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  16. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Indy, Ah, forgiveness! The asking and the giving of such seems to be very much needed and so difficult to find these days. Hate seems to be far more in abundance.

    There are a lot of reasons that Biden was elected president but I do wonder where we would be right now if only more people had forgiven Trump for his past errors along with his more current "mis-speaks" which we all have including Joe Biden. And at least Trump explained most of his statements that were misinterpreted.

    Back to your comment. When it comes to the rulers of the countries of the world, these past few years have been eye-opening, imo. I always new there are few if any politicians/government officials who are truly trustworthy but the level of corruption in the swamp of DC is far greater than I could have ever imagined. I do believe that there are good men/women who hold some of the positions that I am referring to but I believe that Russia is no different than the US, in this respect but the majority of Russians to seem to have converted which I believe that you do agree with also.

    I mean it is no more my fault that Biden is doing the things that he has done since 1/20 than we can blame the average Russian for the past errors of their president(s)/government officials. It does appear that the majority of Russians have converted but this, of course, is only my opinion.

    It seems that many of my countrymen are in the process of being red-pilled at the moment and I say this because of all the recent "Let's go Brandon" chants which are occurring lately (https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/a...s-go-brandon-reaches-top-spot-on-itunes-chart) but most of us have a long way to go yet, unfortunately.

    Jesus I trust in you.+
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  17. AED

    AED Powers

    LOL. When we were young its what we drank! Now my husband brews his own. I stopped drinking quite awhile ago and my sons love craft beers. No more Bud.;):(
  18. SteveD

    SteveD Archangels

    There does appear to be very little basis for your opinion. Whilst over 70% of Russians declare themselves to be Orthodox, only 7% of them bother to attend the liturgy once a month or more whereas e.g. around 40% of Poles attend Mass each week and even the Godless UK manages a figure of 5% regular church attendance. Orthodoxy is entwined with Russian nationalism and is less to do with religious belief and practice than being an additional national identifier.

    The levels of financial inequality and corruption, and rates of abortion, prostitution and alcoholism in Russia are excessive when compared with other developed nations and these do not signify a national conversion.
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  19. sparrow

    sparrow Exitus ~ Reditus

    Remember.. Communism is based on The LIE...
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  20. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    SteveD, I should have specified that I was not really speaking of a true religious conversion, although from other's posts on MOG besides Indy's above and the little that I know about Russia I did think that Christianity was on the rise. My comments about their conversion were really related to Putin's comments that at a time when a lot of the world is confused about many of the basics, the Russians seem to have converted from that way of thinking.

    Since I believe in Our Lady of Garabandal, I believe that Russia will have a true conversion when those prophecies have come to pass.
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