Prophesy - GSWYL

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by padraig, Mar 14, 2018.

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  1. Christy1983

    Christy1983 Guest

    Alas, Fatima, I fear the misunderstanding is all on your part.

    The quote from Verne's book contained no mention of ripple effects, only of an understanding of the effects of one's personal sins against the commandments:
    "Only at the general judgment is an ungodly soul aware of his sin committed against my commandments."
    Allow me to point you to information that will help you better understand the meaning of Verne's message. From Catholic Answers comes this explanation:

    "Yes, we must believe as Catholics that there is what the Church refers to in the Catechism (CCC 1022) as the “particular judgment” immediately upon the death of each human person:

    Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven—through a purification or immediately—or immediate and everlasting damnation.

    "This truth is attested to in texts of Scripture like Hebrews 9:27: “it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment.” And it is implied in Luke 16:19-23, when Jesus gives us his famous parable of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man lived lavishly in this life, while poor Lazarus languished in poverty, but upon their respective deaths they each went immediately to their eternal reward. Poor Lazarus entered into paradise while the rich man entered into eternal damnation (CCC 1021, footnote 593). The particular judgment of each is a necessary inference in order to make sense of the text."

    The gospel of Luke gives insight into the rich man's awareness of the direct consequences of his deadly sin through this famous exchange;

    22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

    25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

    27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

    29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

    30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

    31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

    The only way to make sense of this parable, Fatima, is to acknowledge the rich man knew that his actions on earth--his offenses against the commandments--had led to eternal torment. He begged Abraham to help his brothers avoid the same fate, which they could do by reforming their lives.

    Thus, this parable, Luke 16:19-31 precisely and completely explains the meaning of the sentence in question. Nothing concerning the General Judgement, with its "ripple effects" need be invoked.

    I took the long way around in my response, Fatima, to assure you I do understand the particular judgement, the general judgement, and the passage from Verne's book, to the degree necessary to engage in this discussion. I'd hesitate to assume anyone who opposed my point of view is ignorant; please return the favor.

    (BTW, Fatima, did you take the idea and phrase of "ripple effects" from the Catholic Answers article? For clarity, it would be most helpful to cite the sources you use in discussion.)
    WTW likes this.
  2. "Quis ut Deus"

    "Quis ut Deus" ADMIN Staff Member

    Thread locked... Enough...
    AED, Julia, Catherine L and 3 others like this.
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