Pope Yes to same sex blessings

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by garabandal, Oct 2, 2023.

  1. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

  2. Ang

    Ang Archangels

    It isn’t pastorally charitable to bless a same sex union. The abc article is so incredibly biased I could barely stomach reading it. Making the five brave cardinals sound like a bunch of persistent backwards twits. That are undeserving of any real response from this pope.
    Lord please continue to bless them with faith and courage. Please send us many more brave and devout, church leaders to stand with them.
    Saint Michael defend us in battle!
    Carmel333, Sam, Cherox and 7 others like this.
  3. xsantiagox

    xsantiagox Archangels

    every human has the right to be blessed, but actively parading your homosexuality makes it very inappropriate to bless you in public. (n)
    I mean to say: a man with SSA needs to get clinical help and he may request a priest's blessing. However here the Pope is making a explicit connection between the disordered behaviour and the blessing (which also reduces the man or woman to their own mental disorder- very disrespectful of the Imago Dei) :unsure:
    Byron and Jason Fernando like this.
  4. Ang

    Ang Archangels

    Blessing the individuals is much different than blessing the relationship of a same sex union
  5. Although the Pope used unclear language, and I will not defend it, the title of this thread is misrepresenting his words, and even misrepresents the 2 articles' headlines.

    There is a great difference between the Pope doing nothing about other Bishops blessing same sex "unions" in contridiction to Church teaching VS outright approving the blessing of such "unions".

    "Synodology" may be a way to, in practice, avoid the duty to correct sin, but it is not outright condoning and blessing sinful behavior, as some are doing.

    I suggest the thread be removed
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2023
  6. Ananchal

    Ananchal Vigilans

  7. any name you wish

    any name you wish Archangels

    Qui tacet consentit

    Mary's child likes this.
  8. True, but consent when dealing with Papal action does not equate to proclamation or official teaching.
    There is a profound deference when considering who is speaking and what that would mean.

    The case of Pope Honorius comes to mind.
    Some background here...

    I am often wrong so if someone could explain how the current case is different please correct me.
    any name you wish likes this.
  9. I do not believe in censorship.
    But I am a Catholic Christian who holds to all of the Church's teachings, including the following:

    2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:

    - of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;

    - of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another's faults and failings to persons who did not know them;

    - of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
    We must be vary careful about not spreading scandal by attributing to the vicar of Christ something that was not expressly said.
    No where in either article does the Pope say that same sex "unions" can be blessed, as the title of this thread suggests.
    joseph gregory likes this.
  10. any name you wish

    any name you wish Archangels

    It all has to do with validity, I think. It's tricky; it's a tricky juncture for all of us.
  11. Well, if you are suggesting by mentioning "validity" that we do not have a valid Pope, then that is another mater that also involves avoiding scandal.
  12. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Did he say no to same sex blessings?
  13. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    The title does not include the phrase same sex 'unions' as you impute. You added the word 'union' for effect.

    You are in danger of applying CCC2477 to me!!

    Read the title again - the Pope say yes to same sex blessings. He teaches it is allowable to bless same sex people and couples under certain conditions.

    See my response below.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2023
    Mary's child likes this.
  14. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Q2. Dubium regarding the assertion that the widespread practice of blessing same-sex unions is in accordance with Revelation and the Magisterium (CCC 2357).

    According to the Divine Revelation, attested in Sacred Scripture, which the Church teaches, “listening to it devoutly, guarding it scrupulously and explaining it faithfully in accord with a divine commission and with the help of the Holy Spirit" (Dei Verbum, 10), "In the beginning," God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them, and blessed them to be fruitful (cf. Genesis 1:27-28) and hence, the Apostle Paul teaches that denying sexual difference is the consequence of denying the Creator (Romans 1:24-32). We ask: can the Church deviate from this "principle," considering it, in contrast to what was taught in Veritatis splendor, 103, as a mere ideal, and accept as a "possible good" objectively sinful situations, such as unions with persons of the same sex, without departing from the revealed doctrine?

    Pope's response

    a) The Church has a very clear conception of marriage: an exclusive, stable and indissoluble union between a man and a woman, naturally open to the begetting of children. Only this union is called “marriage”. Other forms of union are realized only “in a partial and analogous way” (Amoris laetitia 292), which is why they cannot strictly be called “marriage”.

    b) It is not a mere question of names, but the reality that we call marriage has a unique essential constitution that demands an exclusive name, not applicable to other realities. It is undoubtedly much more than a mere “ideal”.

    c) For this reason the Church avoids any kind of rite or sacramental that could contradict this conviction and give the impression that something that is not marriage is recognized as marriage.

    d) In dealing with people, however, pastoral charity, which must permeate all our decisions and attitudes, must not be lost. The defense of objective truth is not the only expression of this charity, which is also made up of kindness, patience, understanding, tenderness and encouragement. Therefore, we cannot become judges who only deny, reject, exclude.

    e) For this reason, pastoral prudence must adequately discern whether there are forms of blessing, requested by one or more persons, that do not transmit a mistaken conception of marriage. Because when a blessing is requested, one is expressing a request for help from God, a plea to be able to Live better, a trust in a Father who can help us to Live better.

    f) On the other hand, although there are situations that from the objective point of view are not morally acceptable, pastoral charity itself requires us not to treat as “sinners” other people whose guilt or responsibility may be attenuated by various factors that influence subjective imputability (cf. St. John Paul II, Reconciliatio et Paenitentia, 17).

    g) Decisions which, in certain circumstances, can form part of pastoral prudence, should not necessarily become a norm. That is to say, it is not appropriate for a Diocese, a Bishops’ Conference or any other ecclesial structure to constantly and in an official way enable procedures or rites for all kinds of matters, since everything “that which is part of a practical discernment in a particular situation cannot be elevated to the category of a norm”, because this “would give rise to an unbearable casuistry” (Amoris laetitia 304). Canon Law should not and cannot cover everything, nor should the Episcopal Conferences claim to do so with their various documents and protocols, because the life of the Church runs through many channels in addition to the normative ones.

    My analysis:

    I am not a theologian but in my reading the Pope says it is ok under certain circumstances to bless practising same sex persons and couples. This is a response to how the church should deal with practising same sex attracted persons - so he is always here referring to same sex attracted persons -

    The Pope, in his own words, says that pastoral charity should permeate all decisions - therefore we cannot become judges who always deny and exclude people including same sex attracted persons. He says from an objective point of view one might conclude that same sex (couples) live in 'sin' we cannot conclude that they are 'sinners' because of attenuating factors that influence subjective imputability (maybe due to immaturity, cultural acceptance of such lifestyles etc). And when a blessing is requested then they are asking for the help of God in order to live a better life and should not be denied this.

    However, he suggests that these blessings should not become the norm in the Church nor can a diocese or episcopal conferences make independent decisions in this regard (perhaps in codifying a ceremony for same sex blessings).

    However, a priest through pastoral discernment and in some cases may bless same sex people/ couples.

    Conclusion. The Pope does not say No we can never bless same sex people/couples.

    He says yes it is possible after 'discernment' and with pastoral prudence.

    Therefore I stand by the title of this thread 'Pope says yes to same sex blessings' even though initially it might be done under limited circumstances.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2023
  15. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I hope the Cardinals don't hang about in responding to this.

    What can we do really but wait on the Lord in prayer

    I am fascinated to see what other Cardinals, Bishops and Catholic commentators say about this, it will show us more clearly how things stand.

    I think though the waiting game is over
    Mary's child likes this.
  16. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    I am not holding my breath.

    It is no coincidence that the Pope's response came on the eve of the synod - the vast majority at the synod will be supportive of this development.
    Mary's child likes this.
  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Yes it is a you go this away I'll go that a way moment.

    As St Paul informs us good can not be yoked with evil

    The Restrainer has been lifted.

    I have no doubt that God is about to intervene directly. It us a hold your breath, wait and see moment
    Mary's child likes this.
  18. padraig

    padraig Powers

    As you say I am not counting too much on courage from the clergy. You could die waiting
    Mary's child likes this.
  19. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Thank God my parents are dead and never lived to see this. It would have broken their hearts.

    It is breaking mine
    Mary's child and maryrose like this.
  20. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

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