Pope Francis

Discussion in 'Prayer requests' started by padraig, Oct 26, 2019.

  1. padraig

    padraig New Member



    Can. office committed by the Lord to Peter, the first of the Apostles, and to be transmitted to his successors, abides in the Bishop of the Church of Rome. He is the head of the College of Bishops, the Vicar of Christ, and the Pastor of the universal Church here on earth. Consequently, by virtue of his office, he has supreme, full, immediate and universal ordinary power in the Church, and he can always freely exercise this power.

    Can. 1 The Roman Pontiff acquires full and supreme power in the Church when, together with episcopal consecration, he has been lawfully elected and has accepted the election. Accordingly, if he already has the episcopal character, he receives this power from the moment he accepts election to the supreme episcopal character, he is immediately to be ordained Bishop.

    §2 Should it happen that the Roman Pontiff resigns from his office, it is required for validity that the resignation be freely made and properly manifested, but it is not necessary that it be accepted by anyone.
  2. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Can. 1 By virtue of his office, the Roman Pontiff not only has power over the universal Church, but also has ordinary power over all particular Churches and their groupings. This proper, ordinary and immediate power which the Bishops have in the particular Churches entrusted to their care.

    §2 The Roman Pontiff, in fulfilling his office as supreme Pastor of the Church, is always joined in full communion with the other Bishops, and indeed with the whole Church. He has the right, however, to determine, according to the needs of the Church, whether this office is to be exercised in a personal or in a collegial manner.

    §3 There is neither appeal nor recourse against a judgement or a decree of the Roman Pontiff.

    Can. Bishops are available to the Roman Pontiff in the exercise of his office, to cooperate with him in various ways, among which is the synod of Bishops. Cardinals also assist him, as do other persons and, according to the needs of the time, various institutes; all these persons and institutes fulfil their offices in his name and by his authority, for the good of all the Churches, in accordance with the norms determined by law.

    Can. Roman See is vacant, or completely impeded, no innovation is to be made in the governance of the universal Church. The special laws enacted for these circumstances are to be observed.
  3. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    It seems clear that a pope has absolute power.
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  4. Lumena

    Lumena Archangels

    I think about all of this alot, lately. Benedict reminds me of the Grandfather of a family. Until a Grandfather dies, he remains a Grandfather. And in some cultures, that gives him a Patriarchal and possibly a highly respected role in the family. He can guide the Son to make wise decisions. He can thunder his dissaproval, at times. A Grandfather is a V.I.P.
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  5. Lumena

    Lumena Archangels

    Here in our Diocese, we have a Bishop Emeritus. He said Mass yesterday, in Latin, and conferred the Sacrament of Confirmation on several young people. He gave us a beautiful Sermon on Saint John Henry Newman, which he had prepared after the canonisation of J.H.N.

    He is frail and elderly but his mind is as sharp as a tack! He has all of his faculties and when our Bishop goes overseas/ away, I imagine our Bishop Emeritus stands in for him. And I forsee a time when Pope Emeritus Benedict may have to stand in , if the Holy See becomes vacant. Suddenly vacant.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
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  6. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Wow, well said Dolours!

    Lumena, I like this a lot, especially "A Grandfather is a V.I.P."

    I wonder about this also, we'll have to wait and see.
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  7. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    Actually, there is at least one Bishop who has not accepted the election - Bishop Rene Henry Gracida, Bishop Emeritus of the Diocese of Corpus Christi.

    If this is true, then the Catholic Church has been left handicapped?

  8. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Today is the feast of St Jude Thaddeus. Prayers and petitions to him for our Beloved Church and for us to remain steadfast. Amen.
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  9. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    To my knowledge though Bishop Gracida stops short of the position you take. His position is (in my own words) It appears something went wrong in the conclave and the there needs to be an investigation. I don't think he goes so far as to declare that Pope Francis is definitely not Pope. There is a world of difference between those two positions.
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  10. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Sadly you have put your finger on the major difficulty here. The Church has no definitive procedural way to remove a pope that is laid down in canon law. I think the idea that a Pope could be so far from the faith as to make more than one error was so beyond belief that the Church never saw the need to put something into law. I guess they figured that a pope's successor would fix any problems that arose during an errant papacy.

    I generally agree with what Dolours and Padraig have posted in the above documents, though it may not be quite as entirely cut and dry as they lay out. We may have options. While a Pope cannot be removed very easily (short of calling an imperfect council) he could be declared a heretic. Even one man could do that if it is done properly. In that case, we are into something entirely different. I believe that some older canons cite that a pope cannot be judged...unless it can be proven that he has deviated from the faith. In which case he would not truly be pope anymore and thus could be judged by proper Church authorities. I am not sure if these canons are still in force though in the new canon law. And any judgment, of course, would have to be done by some or all of the cardinals, not the laity and certainly not by individuals.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
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  11. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    Wow the world will be inherited by us deplorable yokels who cling to our guns and bible!!!
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  12. "Quis ut Deus"

    "Quis ut Deus" Powers Staff Member

    Well my three year old just handed me a book and he had opened it on page 65 the book is called Our Lady at Garabandal by Judith M Albright

    In her message on June 18th 1965 the Blessed Virgin told Conchita
    "many cardinals, bishops and priests are on the road to perdition and are taking many souls with them"
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  13. AED

    AED Powers

    Your 3 yrs old brought you that message on pg. 65? Wow. Out of the mouths of babes. A very excellent insight on our current mess. Or should I say tragedy?
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  14. AED

    AED Powers

    And have children instead of pets. Truly the meek do inherit the earth.
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  15. padraig

    padraig New Member

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  16. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Just to clarify. In my post above I wrote: "Even one man could do that if it is done properly."

    I should have been more clear. What I was thinking and should have written was that this would have to be a cardinal or at least a bishop, preferably a group of them. It cannot be a layperson.
  17. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Understood, but thanks for the clarification.
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  18. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    It isn't cut and dried but the solution is a minefield. At least that's the best sense I can make of it. We have had discussions in the past about Papal Bull "Cum ex Apostolatus Officio" issued by Pope Paul IV on 15th February, 1559. Here's an English translation: http://www.sedevacantist.com/encyclicals/Paul04/cumex.html
    Note that one of the reasons Pope Paul IV gave for issuing the Bull was his concern "lest it may befall Us to see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by the prophet Daniel, in the holy place".

    I'm sure that the St. Gallen group and the people behind the Catholic Spring have their strategy well worked out to make sure that Pope Francis couldn't be found guilty of persisting in heresy. That Abu Dhabi statement was probably the closest he'll ever come to taking such a risk and he got away with it just like he got away with every other anti-Catholic statement he has made. He always makes sure that he has plausible deniability or has covered his tracks by making some orthodox statement when preaching to a very small choir. See attached from a Canon Lawyer: https://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2017/09/28/can-a-pope-commit-heresy-heresy-defined/

    We're stuck with him. Our best hope is that he will have a miraculous conversion or that a future Pope will anathematise him and his cohorts as happened in the case of Honorius 1. We have to give him the benefit of the doubt and try to convince ourselves that his motives are good. That kind of mental contortion is more than I can manage but others seem to have no problems with it. Should the Anti-Christ appear in their lifetime, they will have had plenty of practice at passing off evil as good especially now that Pope Francis and his cronies have turned doctrine into a dirty word. God help us.
  19. padraig

    padraig New Member

    We're really off the field on this one. It's completely new ground.Thime to go away and pray about it all.

    I'd love to know what the Cardinals are thinking.
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  20. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers


    A big minefield, which is why I think the laity should not even bother with trying to sort out some of these big theological issues at this point. We don't have the required skills and learning for it and it isn't our job anyway. We just accept him as pope and if something comes out of the Vatican that is not Catholic we have to ignore it. Sad that it has come to that, but that is the situation.

    If some form of formal correction comes along we can reevaluate at that point, but for now we just have to accept the situation and keep praying and plowing along.
    gracia, HeavenlyHosts and Dolours like this.

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