Pope Francis could be my last pope...

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by Stabat Mater, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    So now my friend, you make me want to ask. If I have a PHD in Theology, would you reconsider my views on your criticism of my Faith.

    You see, I smell a rat. And please find a way to open up in a transparent way if you are sincere in your posts.
     
  2. gracia

    gracia Archangels

    The alternative, as many have pointed out, is to apostate either into some kind of Sede Vacantist sect, or to run into an Orthodox Church. And while again, the Orthodox have much is common with us, they are not the Church founded by Christ, nor are their opinions on the Catholic Church really all that charitable, unbiased, or even accurate. They assume that many Catholic teachings are heretical, rather than examine the Church Fathers closely, to see whether or not there is an actual Apostolic origin to these matters.

    Purgatory is a great example. It is indeed Scriptural and Catholic, and orthodox, and Apostolic, but to the best of my knowledge, the Eastern Orthodox reject Purgatory, often with an exaggerated or feigned shock / horror, yet they also teach that a soul can leave Hell after a time, through the intercession of the faithful on earth and in Heaven. This is basically what Purgatory is, and truthfully, no one leaves Hell. So they get that wrong.

    Divorce and remarriage is another great deal. I was growing so enamored with the scholastic beauty and depth of their theology, that I was wanting to shove adultery aside for the more appealing and beautiful aspects. May God forgive me, there was no excuse for that. And yes, the Catholic Church has been (imho) way too liberal with annulments, and Francis seems to want to allow the Body of Christ to adulterers, but again, this does not change what the Church has always taught, even if Pope Francis wills something else.

    Being in communion with Rome, does not mean that the Pope himself is going to be faithful, and the Dubia Cardinals prove that we can be Catholic, faithful to the See of Peter, and yet have serious, serious issues with what the Pope himself is up to. The alternative is either heresy, or schism, friend, and I don't think that is truly what you want.
     
    Dolours, HeavenlyHosts and Julia like this.
  3. gracia

    gracia Archangels

    Stabat, if you want prayers, everyone here will pray for you. But you also have to want Truth. We can be there for you, pray for you, reply to you, but we can not pull you in a manner you seem determined to not walk in. I've been further along into Orthodoxy than perhaps even you. My husband and I actually attended a Greek Orthodox parish for a couple of months, weekly. I sense that God has pointed you to these on-line forums to give you one last chance. Will you embrace Christ, dying on the Cross, and stand with Him, or will you flee into what sounds, smells, and looks beautiful on the outside, but which is not the Church founded by Christ?

    Those who are born into Orthodoxy are on one level. A soul who knows perfectly well that Orthodoxy has some major problems and yet who still willingly leaves the Church for schism is on another page all together. Again, Stabat, your soul's salvation has nothing to do with whether or not the Pontiff sacrifices cats to Satan at night, has a hundred concubines, or privately rejects the existence of God. Or even pushes things that are wrong.

    We *all* need to pray for the Holy Father, and for one another, and keep our heads on, and stay with Truth. We are all sinners, and all need grace. No one here with any faithfulness or knowledge on the topic will encourage you to fly into Orthodoxy.
     
    Praetorian, Dolours, Julia and 2 others like this.
  4. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    Either we believe the Roman Catholic Church is the One True Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ; Christ being the Head and we His Mystical body on earth. Or we are not in communion with the Saints in Heaven and the holy souls in Purgatory.

    It is not a question to me as to what Lutherans believe or Orthodox for that matter. That is God's business. We pray and hope for the best for those of other denominations; but to stay safe in the Barque of Peter, yes even if it is taking in water on all sides and God forbid even if it capsizes. It is still the only true means of salvation. And after the storm, there will be time to rebuild, repair, recover and rejoice in surviving.

    You know the old saying.
    Whether the weather be cold, or whether the weather be hot.
    We'll weather the weather, whatever the weather,
    Whether we like it or not.

    So all we can do is 'Keep Watch and Pray.'

    Jumping ship is for cowards and traitors in my book.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
    gracia and Seagrace like this.
  5. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Are you going to run as all the apostles did when right after the received the body of Christ they went into the garden and then panicked when the hard part of being a Christian comes? Only John stayed faithful. One out of twelve. Perhaps this is this is the same percentage of faithful today when things are not so good go run and hide in fear. If you want to play Judas, its your free will in doing so. As for me, I want to stand with Mary when the going gets tough as St. John did. Thing is you have no guarantee once you walk away from the one and only true faith that you will be given a second chance.
     
    Mary's child, Booklady, Shae and 2 others like this.
  6. Dean

    Dean Archangels


    Sorry but if you are willing to head to a church that already accepts remarriage anyways, then you are already in the wrong church now.

    Real men/women fight for what is good and right, they don't tuck tail and leave.

    There is ONE true church that Jesus founded. The gates of hell will NEVER prevail.

    Period.

    I know there is three pages of responses here, someone already probably typed something like this.
     
  7. Dean

    Dean Archangels

    I present to you.... your "Orthodox" Church

    ” Orthodox Church recognizes the sanctity of marriage and sees it as a life-long commitment. However, there are certain circumstances in which it becomes evident that there is no love or commitment in a relationship. While the Church stands opposed to divorce, the Church, in its concern for the salvation of its people, does permit divorced individuals to marry a second and even a third time.
     
    Mary's child and Praetorian like this.
  8. David Healy

    David Healy St Pio Son

    Think carefully and pray before making any move. Sleep on it. Know that sometimes on the Barque of Peter it can be wise not to look too closely at what is happening in the engine room. Focus on going to mass, prayer; especially the rosary, Adoration and confession when appropriate. Focus on tending as best you can to the little patch of the Lord’s vineyard you have been allocated.
     
    Mary's child, Shae, AED and 3 others like this.
  9. Mea Kulpa

    Mea Kulpa Principalities

    Stabat you know how highly i think of you and i know how passionate you are about the faith and about truth

    There have been some fantastic responses but A word if i may to those who are questioning stabats integrity as he is new here and you do not know him like one or two of us do... i will say this if only more clergy had his passion and zeal for the true faith this crisis would be very short lived.. he has also been a very strong suport for me personally and i know for gracia too we all have our good days and our bad in these times of ours and this is why we need to stick together and help each other through it. Having said that i have seen such strong and empassioned catholic responses with no regard for any ( i am coining a new phrase) "ecumenicaly correct" wording that i am sure stabat, myself and everyone of us will get the help we need from members on this forum... no wishy washy plesantrys

    Back to you stabat, i think your looking at this all wrong its kind of a confused muddled perspective. Now it is time for our witness to give our example of faithfulness for our persecution our betrayal our condemnation our struggle to golgotha and our own crucifixion....and our resurection because we are his church, you and I and the members of this forum and all who hold to the true faith passed down to us today.... this is a great privelage this is the moment of crowning glory for us this is our destiny this is the fullfilment of the churches mission... these heretic bishops priests and popes these are not members of the true faith...YOU are the true faith YOU are the church when you hold to tradition when you hold to those truths passed down you become one body one blood with Jesus Christ flesh of his flesh bone of his bone and as we have glorified him he is about to glorify us... you take those heresies as lashes against the truth as lashes against yourself those peircing false teachings as nails in your hands and those words of condemnation ridged pharise and cry out "why have you forsaken me" and unite it all and yourself your entire soul to the cross of christ for a servant is not greater than his master and as they persecuted him they now persecute the church as the father sent him he has sent us... do not give up your crown of glory stabat do not pass over this cup but say to the lord "thy will be done"
     
    Mary's child, AED, Praetorian and 3 others like this.
  10. gracia

    gracia Archangels

    Amen.
     
  11. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Julia, you are a spitfire at times and I love your vim and vigor, but let's be a little gentle with Stabat. He is one of the lost sheep and at this time he is in a very delicate spiritual state. We must leave the 99 and go out in search of him with gentle guiding hands. Let us not scare him away.
     
    Mary's child, dcana, Shae and 4 others like this.
  12. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    When someone disrespects the formal title of the Holy Father, I would not be thinking 'delicate' anything.
    It is a known fact that the devil can not bare to say the name of Jesus respectfully, and would refer to the Holy Father in a derogatory way, just like our very delicate friend.
    Funny isn't it. The Holy Father can be trashed; but we have to walk on rice paper around the delicate souls. I'll do my best. But I smell a rat.
     
    Mary's child, Seagrace and Praetorian like this.
  13. Mea Kulpa

    Mea Kulpa Principalities

    At this moment in time we all carry the cross but we are also called to be simon of cyrene and help others carry theirs also
     
    Mary's child, gracia and Praetorian like this.
  14. Mea Kulpa

    Mea Kulpa Principalities

    He is one of the good guy's. He has been very trusting to open up with his internal conflict. He has asked for prayers which we should offer but also reassurance encouragement hope and try to inspire a holy conviction because i fear we will all need a strengh of conviction as strong as the holy myters to withstand what is coming
     
  15. AED

    AED Powers

    Yes indeed!
     
  16. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I agree with you Julia. I am sure you know that I am one of those on the forum who is often cautioning against going to far and disrespecting the Pope and especially denying the fact that he is the Holy Father or calling him names. Whatever we may think of him personally he is still the Vicar of Christ on Earth and who am I to second guess God's judgement in allowing that appointment?

    That being said I understand (as many of us do) the feeling Stabat is having. I have no love for what is going on in Rome. I think once we have gotten Stabat through this crisis and safely back on board the Barque we can discuss the other issues.

    Right now the cry has just rung out "Man overboard!"
    It isn't time to chastise him for not wearing a life preserver while he is being tossed about in the sea.
    We have to get him back in the ship first ;)
     
    Shae, sterph, AED and 1 other person like this.
  17. AED

    AED Powers

    Yes!!! Prayers going up.
     
    Shae, Praetorian and gracia like this.
  18. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    .
    This is where I believe that those of us born and raised in the Faith have an advantage. Well, those of us raised in the Faith at a time when a Catholic education did what it said on the tin. We never expected things in the Church to be perfect because we were taught otherwise. We learned about bad Popes and bad Bishops just as we learned about saintly Popes and Bishops. We also learned about the role some saints played in getting the Church back to the straight and narrow when the shepherds weren't up to scratch. Our faith was never in a Pope or Bishop but in Our Lord Jesus Christ who chose a sinful man to lead His Church until He returns and, knowing man's sinfulness, promised that the Church will always prevail because His protection is our insurance policy.

    A convert might see everything falling asunder with no hope of getting out of the mire. I see four brave Cardinals (two now gone to their eternal reward) and a number of Catholic theologians who are saving the Deposit of Faith by their witness that what is being promoted now can never be claimed to have been believed always and by all. What's proposed as changes in discipline or pastoral practice can be reversed. It will take a strong Pope to oversee the reversal and we need to have sufficient trust in God to know that in the future we will have such a strong Pope. Then the bad will be jettisoned and the good retained. There's no point saying "Jesus I trust in you" unless we really mean it.
     
    AED, josephite, Shae and 5 others like this.
  19. Mea Kulpa

    Mea Kulpa Principalities

    What is happening stabat, is the harvest... the chaff the weeds are being uprooted its causing all sorts of disturbences in the soil and we can see the weeds getting lifted up and are even members of the clergy after the weeds have been piled up the wheat will be taken into the barn and the chaff burned... just make sure you are not uprooted in the first phase of the process

    These words of our lord stabat we all need to embrace them and impress upon our hearts as tightly as possible and hang on for dear life...

    "he who endures to the end shall be saved"
     
    AED, Shae, Dolours and 2 others like this.
  20. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Yes, being a Catholic is a bit like being married I guess.
    Sometimes there are good times. Sometimes there are bad times.
    Sometimes we are healthy and sometimes sick.
    But leaving really isn't an option.

    I understand it might be more difficult being brought up in a religion where you really aren't tied to one church and a lot depends upon personal discernment. That is not how we cradle Catholics were raised.
     
    AED, padraig, Shae and 3 others like this.

Share This Page