Pope Francis and the treatment of migrants

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by DeGaulle, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    In his Easter Sunday address, Pope Francis seems to condemn those who prevent migrants from entering their countries. He does not seem to discriminate between genuine refugees and economic migrants, referring to those who are "fleeing from war, hunger, poverty and social injustice".

    This seems so broad, I wish to ask does this mean that the nation state has become an occasion of sin? Should we expect the Vatican to lead the way and become an epicentre of multiculturalism in this new free-for-all? Can we expect refugee camps in Saint Peter's Square? Perhaps the temporary usage of St. Peter's as a mosque every Friday? What were we doing sinning for so many centuries by fighting to keep the people of Islam out of our continent, when we should have just let them in? Were we blaspheming when we said all those rosaries looking for help and invoking Our Lady of Victory? Instead of fighting them at Lepanto, should we not have given them all those ships so that more of them could have travelled over.

    Are we obliged to believe and agree with this? Then again, it seems we can use barrier contraceptives to protect ourselves against the Zika virus. It is strange living with this pope.
     
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  2. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    We are living in a new world. An every changing world. A world where boundaries are no longer thought of in the traditional way. Those of us that have been blessed to have been born in a free world, a world of plenty, a world of pleasure and comfort had better wake up and realize that God is very close to neutralizing us all, because of sin. I understand sovereignty and order, but the free world has all but thrown God out of these blessings because of sinfulness. To whom much has been given, much is expected. For the past many decades now the free world has chosen to serve the Beast in lieu of God. Many prophecies tell us we are much much worse in moral decadence than Sodom and Gomorrah. We are much worse than those living in the time of the deluge. I think God is saying we no longer deserve to live in a world of isolation from the less fortunate and perhaps Pope Francis understands better than we realize that our little comfort world is about to change dramatically forever. We may well be the foreigner sooner than we think. We may be the one looking for refuge outside of our current environment. Will we be welcomed into a safer, a better place?

    I understand the sovereignty 'checks and balances' when allowing non citizens in our countries. But the system is broken. The world leadership is corrupt. In a world with corrupt leaders and governments what is the consequence? Be careful what you are asking for, as you and I may be the drifter before we know it within our own country that we will not even recognize. Best to take all things to prayer instead of hoping we will be on safe ground indefinitely in a world that will soon be chastised for our sinfulness.
     
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  3. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    No we do not have to support everything the Pope says. I fundamentally disagree with him on this one.

    Nation states have governments that have God given responsibility to protect their citizens. And that includes determining who should and not enter the country either temporarily or permanently.

    It is the undermining of nation-state that has got us into this mess.

    Multiculturalism is a failed experiment on so many levels.
     
    Heidi likes this.
  4. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    The Pope speaking today of the Pakistan suicide attack on Easter Sunday:
    "I appeal to civil authorities and all sectors of that nation to make every effort to restore security and serenity to the population, and in particular to the most vulnerable religious minorities," he said.

    Here the Pope acknowledges that the nation state has a duty to protect its citizens.
     
  5. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

  6. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    I recall St. Pope John Paul writing and speaking on the sovereignty of nations, which he defended. I live in a very diverse community in Midwest US. My kids are a minority in our schools (Catholic and public) in a town of 12,000 and perhaps another 10,000 non citizens. When you look at our county jail web site one would think we were living in a foreign country, but you could not determine what country that would be, as there are ethnic groups from every corner of the earth living here and working at a pork plant. Trust me, I have seen the challenges of multiculturalism and it is not all good and not all bad. I know what going to Mass is like when it is done in more than one language (3.5 hour Easter Vigil). All I know is that things are changing rapidly and we had better wake up an realize that our world view is going go change around us very fast. So fast it it will make your head spin what God has planned.
     
  7. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Agreed - great, great changes are happening before out eyes.

    Look to Syria as an example of where the world is headed.
     
  8. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    It is strange living with this pope, so strange that it borders on being weird. I think that if this pope could re-write the Bible, the Good Samaritan, rather than paying someone else to take care of the victim while he continued on his way, would have brought him home to Samaria, given him the key to the house, invited all the victim's relatives, and started a pressure group in Samaria to change the law to give the stranger more power while demanding that Samaritan taxes be used to fund their education, healthcare and lifestyle.

    I've decided that the best way to live with this pontificate is prayer for the Pope's safety and that his interference in world politics on the side of the globalists/one world government crowd won't infuriate ethnic Italians so much that they will turn against the Vatican.
     
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  9. CrewDog

    CrewDog Guest

    I've stated before that I believe that Pope Francis is just acting out his role as directed by God in the Divine Play called "The Storm". I don't have any other explanation for some of his statements and actions ... or at least explanations I care to dwell upon ;-(

    GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2016
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  10. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    The fact it is a pork plant speaks for itself. I would see no problem in a multiculture of Christians, because at the deepest level they are one. There is even much to share between Christians and Jews. But the immigration issue in Europe is entirely about the immiscible combination of Christianity and its greatest historical enemy. It can only lead to war, death and destruction. How can a pope advocate that?
     
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  11. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Apart from the narrow limits of magisterial teaching on faith and morals, is it wise to expect a pope to do the will of God? No man is an automaton and "acting out a role" seems perilously close to predestinationism. God's plan, it seems to me, is grounded on our free will, from peddler to pope, and it appears contra-indicated to me that He would stand in the way of Pope Francis being a gullible fool, or worse, no more than He forced St. Peter to not deny Him on Good Friday.

    From a personal perspective, as a Catholic trying to do my duty, I wish to know where the line is regarding the obedience to a pope. Am I siding with the sedevacantists if I express disagreement on this issue or should I blindly agree and obey? If his views contradict those of dead popes, what am I to do?

    Heading into this Storm it seems absolutely essential that we all know the lines of obedience to papal pronouncements, because loyalty and absolute obedience will become essential to salvation. Glib, politically correct pronouncements like this one, not to mention many others particularly the Zika one, have left me in an agony of confusion. What must I believe? I suspect this pope can be ignored in most instances, but this makes me feel guilty and I appreciate the feedback from the many here whom I know to be so genuine and well-informed.

    If my hunches are correct, and I try to pray three Hail Mary's for Pope Francis every day with the hope he be granted discernment and prudence, what effect is he having on those who lack any clue about their faith?
     
  12. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    I am tired about complaining about this pope. I believe he has blood on his hands.
     
  13. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I must humbly admit , I do not understand, though as I get older I admit I do not understand many things.
     
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  14. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    I must admit, I find myself on the other side of most of this pope's agenda. Don't get me wrong, I love the social justice and mercy elements that he most definitely brings to the table, but ,I find his agenda closely mirroring the globalists agenda which I oppose. What difference is there between Pope Francis and George Soros for example. Not much I would argue. Does this pope believe in Sodom and Gommorah? What is the difference between Pope Francis and your typical USA cathoilic, who is personally opposed to abortion but politically for it? Same goes for homosexual marriage/rights (please don't quote a speech he gave 10 years ago supporting traditional marriage). I wonder how he feels about all the rapes being committed by his "refugees"? Murders by them? What would he do to stop any ISIS/ISIL members from immigrating to the west? What about those who crucified that priest? How is Pope Francis different than President Obama? I would not even consider voting for Pope Francis as president of the USA. Easy choice for me to pick Donald Trump over him for president. Whatever happened to the scriptural verse "wise as serpents harmless as doves" Sure he has not violated any catholic tenet like Charlie Johnston correctly points out, but is he gutting them by emphasis or lack thereof like the liberals have done to our constitution? I don't see much difference between the two.
     
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  15. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    I view most of his political views the same way. My question is merely whether we have the discretion, as faithful Catholics, to think this way.
     
  16. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    The only blood on his hands is in the Eucharist consecrated by him at every mass he offers.
     
  17. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    For my part and that of my family we pray for our pope in our rosary and others prayers daily. This is God's will. He can make no new doctrine so I hold to all holy mother church has taught in this regard, which is unchanging truth. So where's the problem for some who's feathers seem ruffled? I feel we have exactly the pope for our confusing times, if for no other reason then for God to judge our fidelity to his vicar by our prayers for him. I think most all of us have failed in some degree or another in spending to much time criticizing him in lieu of praying for him. Which choice in front of us is of God and which course have we chosen? Did anyone ever think about God testing our faith through Pope Francis? I think God is testing the "orthodox" faithful in this moment as well as the unfaithful. Be careful what you say and what you do as all are being tested as we speak.
     
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  18. FatimaPilgrim

    FatimaPilgrim Powers

    This hit me early on in Pope Francis' papacy when I, like most had a few "what?!" moments over some of the things I read about Pope Francis and what he was saying. But the basic Truth is that no, he cannot change doctrine and yes he is a man like all of us and can make mistakes and has weaknesses, but he's the Pope and there's a reason that Pope Benedict stepped down (first time in 500 years that happened!) and we have Pope Francis now.

    The sheep are being separated from the goats and we are all being tested. I've said it before, but when you openly criticize and question Pope Francis over and over, you are doing great harm to your soul and to the souls of impressionable people who are listening to you or reading your words. We all need to pray for our Pope and each other, and stand together in the light of Truth! It's called Faith for a reason, people!
     
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  19. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

  20. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    How about answering some of my questions Joe. How are his political views any different than George Soros or Barack Obama?
     

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