Pope Francis : Abortion

Discussion in 'Video Blogs' started by padraig, Sep 3, 2015.

  1. padraig

    padraig Powers

     
    Mac likes this.
  2. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    Once again the media presents its own slant on what our pope has actually said by incomplete and out of context quotes. Does God's Mercy really need such analysis? All it really needs is grateful acceptance. "Pope Francis is not going to change any of the dogmas of the church" is said at the end of the interview and the priest does a good job of defending the pope and presenting his true attitudes and intentions.
     
    miker, Denise P and Bonaventure like this.
  3. miker

    miker Powers

    I stopped the video at the 2 minute mark when the guy said the church is out of touch on all sorts of sexual issues and with this act the Pope wants the church to be more inclusive. Thats complete BS and if this guy is Catholic it's calumny. Plain and simple, the Pope did this to extend the mercy of God to individual men and women who separated themselves from God and the Church through their sin. It's not really that complicated. But it us ever so joyful.
     
    Torrentum and fallen saint like this.
  4. Scolaire Bocht

    Scolaire Bocht Archangels

    Unfortunately, going by his accent, I think that was an Irish Catholic too.
     
  5. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    I was intrigued to see Mac 'liking' this video. In actual fact, the discussion is quite informative and while the presenter tries to extract from the guests his own 'liberal' agenda, he fails to do so.

    Prior to this matter being mentioned by Pope Francis, I had not known that someone wanting to confess the sin of abortion could only get absolution from a bishop, not a priest. Pope Francis' decision to allow priests to give absolution to those repenting of this terrible sin is surely absolutely correct and to be applauded by everyone. Hopefully, Mac agrees.
     
  6. Charity

    Charity Mercy

    Priests have been able to forgive the sin of abortion- it is the excommunicated that had to be forgiven by a bishop- this is the current confision with the medias reporting
     
  7. Charity

    Charity Mercy

    2015
    An Invitation To Mercy- Sounding The Trumpet
    The Popes letter to priests concerning the year of mercy and its reference to abortion is causing quite a bit of ruckus in the media. The secular press has made it appear as if the Catholic Church is just [​IMG]now offering forgiveness for abortion in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and even those of us who are Catholics became a little confused at what he was telling the clergy.

    As someone who works in post abortion ministry, my phone and email were busy yesterday as many women questioned the forgiveness they received in the sacrament, wondering, if in fact, they had been forgiven.

    I am no theologian, but the letter as I understand it, is that Pope Francis has now given priests the ability to lift excommunication as a result of abortion which in some places only Bishops were able to do.

    Now, just because you have had an abortion does not mean you were excommunicated. As with all mortal sin many factors come in to it. Did you know about the excommunication? Were you coerced or did you freely want an abortion and also know the seriousness of the sin? These are things that can be discussed with a priest, but chances are many women do not fit the mode of excommunication.

    Here in New York, and across the country priests were given the faculty to lift the ban over 20 years ago, so if you have gone to confession with a contrite heart, no fears, your abortion has been forgiven!

    There is a beautiful prayer of reconciliation in our church which says “God of love and mercy, you are always ready to forgive; we are sinners, and you invite us to trust in your mercy.”

    December 8th marks the beginning of the Jubilee Year of Mercy in the Catholic Church. Does that mean that the church will now forgive abortion for the first time as the secular press would lead people to believe? Of course not! The mercy of God has always been there, inviting us to trust in His love for us. During this special jubilee year the church will be loudly sounding the trumpet calling people far and wide, inviting them back to the heart of Christ who is Mercy Himself!

    If you have had an abortion and hear the invitation, do not be afraid, He is, as He has always been, lovingly waiting for you!
     
    Jeanne, Mario and Praetorian like this.
  8. Charity

    Charity Mercy

    Revelant Radio shows discussed this in depth with the confused faithful yesterday
    as well.
     
  9. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    The situation in North America may have been different to elsewhere. Here is an article that provides some background on the 'technical' side:
    http://ncronline.org/news/people/priests-us-canada-can-already-absolve-women-who-had-abortions

    Regardless of the 'legal' aspects, once again Pope Francis has shown his faithfulness to the ways of Jesus when He scandalized the Pharisees in forgiving Mary Magdalene.
     
    jnice :), Torrentum and Andy3 like this.
  10. Jonah

    Jonah Angels

    Please help me to understand, if a woman has confessed the sin of abortion to an ordinary priest and has received absolution, but was not told she should go to a bishop, not ever told she had been excommunicated, has she been in a state of mortal sin and receiving sacreligeous communion while believing herself to be in a state of grace? Many, many women will be very confused and won't know if they should stop going to communion until they've met with their bishop.
     
  11. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    This is where it gets sticky...the Church gives the rules. They hold the keys to heaven. Their job is to suffeciently teach rules to the world.

    But if there is lack of knowledge by sinner and/or the great unknown of the persons intent. Only God is final judge.

    But if you know it is wrong and you still do it...then you are held accountable the full extent of Church law.

    Brother al





     
    jnice :) likes this.
  12. Andy3

    Andy3 Powers

    Correct Fallen Saint. To be mortal sin you have to know it is wrong and then still willingly choose to do so. God knows our hearts.

    http://www.saintaquinas.com/mortal_sin.html

    So what kind of Sins are Mortal?

    In order for a sin to be mortal, it must meet three conditions:

    • Mortal sin is a sin of grave matter
    • Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
    • Mortal sin is committed with deliberate consent of the sinner
    This means that mortal sins cannot be done "accidentally." A person who commits a mortal sin is one who knows that their sin is wrong, but still deliberately commits the sin anyway. This means that mortal sins are "premeditated" by the sinner and thus are truly a rejection of God’s law and love.

    The first condition, that a mortal sin is of grave matter, means that certain premeditated offenses against God are more severe than others. We know that some sins are graver than others (e.g. it is a graver sin to murder someone than to lie to someone). St. John tells us, "If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly." (1 John 5:16-17). Thus St. John distinguishes between mortal and venial sin. Jesus also warns us that "Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned" (John 15:6).
     
    Jeanne and Joe Crozier like this.
  13. kathy k

    kathy k Guest

    I believe that Bishops have delegated the authority to forgive the sin of abortion and restore the person to full communion with the Church. If a priest did this without the authority, it seems to me the culpability would be on him, not the one seeking forgiveness.
     
  14. Jonah

    Jonah Angels

    If the bishops have delegated the authority to forgive the sin of abortion then why has Pope Francis come out with this statement that during the year of mercy there will be the special new exception to the rule, does he not know that it's there already? It's all so complicated. Also, a woman who has had an abortion is hardly going to make an arrangement to see a bishop who is totally inaccessible to the ordinary person. By the time she gets to the point of seeking forgiveness she has probably been away from the church for a long time and wouldn't know how or where to the find a bishop. More bishops would have to be ordained just to hear the confessions of the huge number of women who have had abortions, and they would need to be out among the people, not hidden in their palaces.
     
  15. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Jonah, you have answered your own second question by pointing out the difficulty of someone needing to find a bishop to confess to. This is why Pope Francis has done what he has.
    That priests seem to have been delegated the power to give absolution applies only to America and Canada and, in any case, how many people would know this anyway?? The Pope has done what has to remove all these problems so that anyone guilty of this sin and wanting to repent will be encouraged to do so.
     
    fallen saint likes this.
  16. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Let me clarify things as I have done extensive research on this topic because I had questions over whether I committed the sins of apostasy and heresy which have the same reservation attached to them. First off there are 2 things going on when one gets an abortion or participates in any way (getting it, giving personal support, paying for it, performing it).

    1.) If someone commits one of these sins ANY priest has the ability to forgive the penitent.

    2.) However, IF you were aware at the time you committed the sin that there was also an excommunication from the Catholic Church attached to it, you must also go to the bishop (he delegates this to priests, you don't actually go to see him) and ask that the excommunication be lifted. This second part is what Pope Francis is talking about. So if you never knew there was an automatic excommunication attached to the sin, you do not need to see the bishop only a priest.

    Automatic excommunication for abortion (CIC 1398) applies not only to the woman who has the abortion, but to "all those who commit this crime with knowledge of the penalty attached, and [this] includes those accomplices without whose help the crime would not have been committed" (Evangelium Vitae 62).

    No one is automatically excommunicated for any offense if, without any fault of his own, he was unaware that he was violating a law (CIC 1323:2) or that a penalty was attached to the law (CIC 1324:1:9). The same applies if one was a minor, had the imperfect use of reason, was forced through grave or relatively grave fear, was forced through serious inconvenience, or in certain other circumstances (CIC 1324).

    Here is a relevant article:

    http://www.catholic.com/quickquesti...her-sins-that-incur-automatic-excommunication
     
    Jeanne and jnice :) like this.
  17. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    This is the difficult part to understand...we take for granted everyone has the same knowledge of sin as we do. Every path is different therefore everyone is at a different level of spirituality. The main reason the Pope is sending the message is to tell those that have had an abortion (and are in spiritual solitude and despair) to come back to the church. This is were many of us loose site of Gods mercy. The official rules say it has to be done by Bishop. Some countries with approval of the Holy Father have been allowing priests to engage in this activity. But now Papa Francis is openning this blessing to every country.

    I think this is where many of us get confused. Because we are not God...we will never have full understanding of salvation. All we can do is continue to follow our spiritual path...and hopefully we help others find it.

    Brother al



    Thi
     
  18. Jonah

    Jonah Angels

    What the Pope is doing for the year of Mercy is great, I agree, but I'm thinking of all the women who have not received their absolution from a bishop during the last 40 years, who never heard before that they were required to seek out a bishop, they all have to find a bishop if they want to receive communion before December 8.
     
  19. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    Intent versus letter of the law.

    We will never know intent...if they confessed sin with open heart then let us pray God has accepted them back to His fold. It is not really us to judge. But someone like you Jonah (who knows the law) better not use the excuse... if they can do it, why cant i. You actions would have a different intent.

    Brother al




     
  20. Jonah

    Jonah Angels

    Only women who are theologians or experts in church laws would have known that they would be excommunicated for having an abortion. My honest opinion is that we'd be better off if the Pope never said anything about bishops or excommunication or anything like that, he should just have invited women who have had abortions to come to Jesus for forgiveness because He loves them. Hurting people don't want to know about the hoops that they need to jump through, that they didn't even know about, being removed. They just want to come home, don't bother with the hoops!
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015

Share This Page