Padraig says these Archbishops are evil

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by jerry, Jul 9, 2016.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Proud2bRC Staff Member

    "Then again, Archbishop Cupich of Chicago, a notorious archliberal whom Francis elevated to this major episcopal key, has already gone beyond mere sacrilegious Communion for public adulterers in “second marriages” to declare that even those involved in “homosexual unions” involving the habitual practice of sodomy may approach the Blessed Sacrament if they “come to a decision in good conscience” and that the Church should “help them move forward and to respect that.”"
  2. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Well, Brian has shared on three threads this LIE from Christopher Ferrara's website so please allow me to respond in turn on the three threads.

    "Then again, Archbishop Cupich of Chicago, a notorious archliberal whom Francis elevated to this major episcopal key, has already gone beyond mere sacrilegious Communion for public adulterers in “second marriages” to declare that even those involved in “homosexual unions” involving the habitual practice of sodomy may approach the Blessed Sacrament if they “come to a decision in good conscience” and that the Church should “help them move forward and to respect that.”"

    Note that the text in red was NOT said by the Archbishop and the Archbishop would be strongly against Holy Communion being given to such unions.
  3. jerry

    jerry Guest

    i think i am correct in stating that you have already stated in this thread that Abp Cupich is an evil bishop. But to state that Abp Cupich IS evil is ( in my opinion - which i am ready to find is mistaken) a huge step up in magnitude. Can you state like Padraig that Arp Cupich IS evil? If so do so please.
    It is my opinion that few in this forum would be willing to do so.
  4. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    What exactly does the term "homosexual union" mean then?
    Are they playing Tiddly Winks with each other?
  5. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Well of course Ferrara's article is very 'free' with its wording. His article is based on a report from the NCR which states:

    Asked if he would likewise accompany homosexual couples into receiving the sacraments according to their consciences, Archbishop Cupich replied: “Gay people are human beings, too; they have a conscience, and my role as a pastor is to help them to discern what the will of God is by looking at the objective moral teaching of the Church.”
    The Archbishop's words are totally consistent with the Catholic Catechism:

    2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

  6. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    And while we are at it, here is another relevant quote from the Catholic Catechism:

    2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. 278 He becomes guilty:

    - of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;

    - of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another's faults and failings to persons who did not know them; 279

    - of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.​
  7. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Here is a much less biased and mainstream periodical:

    It says essentially the same thing.
    Stop mincing words David.
    And this this is not the teaching of the Catholic Church. As always it is PART of the teaching.
    The Church does not teach that conscience is "everything".
    Under Canon 915 ministers have a duty and an obligation not to give communion to these couples.
    This is Church teaching!
    First of all any homosexuals who are a "couple" are at best constantly putting themselves in a near occasion of sin. They would need to remove themselves from that "couplehood" before receiving the Body and Blood of Our Lord.
    Should they be accompanied gently and with great care?
    But the Body and Blood of Our Lord should not be defiled!
    Dolours likes this.
  8. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

  9. BrianK

    BrianK Proud2bRC Staff Member

  10. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Don't worry Brian, my words 'finished with this' were in reference to Ferrara's LIE that you have been promoting or dare I say 'spamming'. I will remain doing my best to encourage faithfulness to Jesus' Church led by the Holy Father. Whether I'm helping or hindering only God knows but I am praying that He will guide me to stop if the latter.
  11. BrianK

    BrianK Proud2bRC Staff Member

    God can and will use that - if you let Him.
  12. SOLADY

    SOLADY Angels

    "my role as a pastor is to help them to discern what the will of God is by looking at the objective moral teaching of the Church.”

    pastor? thats the problem! its the vatican ll issue again! vatican ll turned the church into a pastoral church the men who implemented this non-Catholic Council were not true popes of the Catholic Church, but antipopes. Paul VI did not infallibly promulgate any of the Vatican II teachings but, promulgated the apostate documents of Vatican II,

    )Pastor:sort of like a principal of one school and it is a job title. In most Protestant denominations it refers to a job title or job function of being a working religious leader.

    )Priest: a priest is your basic ordained clergyman who can provide the standard range of church services and sacraments.

    The Magisterium is a teaching authority whose teachings are “irreformable” (de fide definita, Vatican I, Denz. 1839). Since they are irreformable, they are unalterable from the date on which they are declared. If Antipope Paul VI had been a true Pope, Vatican II was irreformable and infallible on Dec. 8, 1965. Nothing said or done after Dec. 8, 1965 could undo (if Paul VI were a true pope) that which was done already, for then the Magisterium’s teaching would become reformable. Hence, the speech of Antipope Paul VI in 1966 (after the council was closed) has no relevance to whether or not Vatican II was infallible.

    the Catholic Church teaches that it’s impossible for a heretic to be elected pope, since a heretic is not a member of the Catholic Church. this was defined in Pope Paul IV’s Apostolic Constitution Cum ex Apostolatus Officio.

  13. BrianK

    BrianK Proud2bRC Staff Member

    28 September 2016, 16:30
    Schönborn: No understanding of opposition to Pope Francis

    Cardinal in prayer for peace in the cathedral: People are grateful world that Francis "exemplifies the Gospel", within the church, there are hostile - Call for "patience" for Vatican ruling on Medjugorje

    Vienna ( Cardinal Christoph Schönborn has expressed shock at the resistance from church circles against Pope Francis: "It hurts me that he is so much hostility - within the Church What is this He is the successor of Peter.? ! He's the pope! "said the Archbishop of Vienna on Tuesday in his homily during the Medjugorje peace prayer" Message for you "in the cathedral. Many people in the world are grateful for the witness of Pope Francis, "for his kindness and his love for the poor and the fallen. It is the gospel that he teaches us," said Schoenborn. That the Pope doing "so much resistance" from its own ranks learn, was completely incomprehensible to him. It is important to pray for the Pope.

    Regarding the so far not carried out confirmation of the Vatican for the reported Marian apparitions in Medjugorje, the Cardinal called on the faithful to be patient. You should "persevere and remain faithful in prayer and intercession," said Schoenborn, and continued: "I think to myself, God knows why he is linked to Medjugorje, so patient requires of us thus our heart is willing.. " As one of the positive consequences of the events of Medjugorje Schönborn called the emergence of numerous prayer groups around the world and also in Austria. It was particularly noteworthy that these groups since their inception in the 1980s - the Viennese Dominican church was then a starting point - would largely continue to exist to this day, the Archbishop of Vienna.

    The Medjugorje prayer groups were the focus of this year's peace prayer, to which again approximately 4,000 believers had come to St. Stephen's Cathedral.Currently I am tempted to link the dozens existing groups in Austria with each other more, explained Christian Stelzer of the prayer community "Oasis of Peace", which has organized the peace prayer.

    Copyright 2016 Catholic press agency KATH PRESS, Vienna, Austria
    All rights reserved
  14. BrianK

    BrianK Proud2bRC Staff Member

    Cardinal Schönborn’s Website Promotes Gender Theory Amidst Papal Praise
    A Google translated screen capture of – the official Archdiocesan website of Vienna, Austria. The title appears confusing in English, but the two uses of “equality” stem from words with different meanings in German: “Gleichberechtigung” (equality) and “Gleichmacherei” (a levelling down).

    On the official website of the Archdiocese of Vienna, Austria – whose reigning archbishop is Cardinal Christoph Schönborn – two different articles, though not explicitly related to one another, will likely be of great importance for Catholics in the world today.

    First, there is to be found the report that Pope Francis himself has just written a supportive letter to Cardinal Schönborn on the occasion of his 25th anniversary as a bishop. Francis praises this cardinal for his leading the Austrian Bishops’ Conference as its President “in a praiseworthy manner” and for his “concordance of word and work” that is so manifest in his personal witness. The pope also highlights that Cardinal Schönborn in his office as archbishop – and especially in his “care for the Sacred Doctrine” – is notably attentive that the sheep entrusted to him may “follow the path which you [Schönborn] show them with help of your words and your example.”

    In the midst of such praise, however, another post on the same official website of Cardinal Schönborn seems to throw some doubt upon the assurance that this cardinal is leading his sheep in the right direction and for the right reasons. That is to say, his own website has now published an article about a theologian, Professor Gunter Prüller-Jagenteufel, who recently presented a strong attack on those Catholics who are at all critical of the “Gender Theory.” The Viennese Professor Prüller-Jagenteufel had just helped to organize a conference from 22 to 25 September 2016 at the Catholic Theological Faculty of the University of Vienna about the Gender Theory, and he afterwards gave an interview to the Austrian Bishops’ news agency (whose own article is the same as the one on Schönborn’s website). According to Schönborn’s website, this theologian criticizes the “anti-genderism,” which is widely spread within ecclesial circles, for its unacceptable generalizations, which are: that gender [or sex? – Geschlecht] is merely a social construction; that heterosexual relationships shall be dissolved and the traditional family destroyed.

    The website further reports on the claims of this Austrian theologian and professor, as follows: “These often intentional misunderstandings and attacks against the purported ‘left-wing’ movement, which itself comes out of feminism, are in themselves ‘highly ideological’.” Prüller-Jagenteufel is also being quoted here as saying that “gender aims at equality and not at a leveling down.” In his eyes, therefore, it is wrong to disavow the whole Gender-Theory movement.

    In summing up the discussions from his own 22-25 September conference, Prüller-Jagenteufel says that many people claim that those who support the gender theory want “to create a new man,” just as Marxism strove to do. Interestingly in this context, he explicitly makes a demeaning comment on Poland and on Hungary – two prominently earnest countries which still try to resist the implementation of the gender theory in their own beset homelands.

    According to Schönborn’s website, Prüller-Jagenteufel just intends to “deconstruct” certain (unspecified) roles for men and women, but, purportedly, not to destroy them. Summing up the theologian’s ideas, the article supportively says:

    It is mostly about questioning labellings and about making individual freedom more possible as to how we lead our own lives. Additionally, ambiguities that come to us through trans-and-intersexuality are only now being better perceived by us today – contrary to earlier times.

    Prüller-Jagenteufel then also speciously insists upon the fact that both man and woman are made in the likeness of God and that this fact should have (again unspecified) consequences upon our ways of thinking. In this context, he therefore says, according to the article: “There is a reason why Pope Francis just recently initiated a commission studying the history of the female deaconate.” It is also worthwhile noting in this context that this theologian teaches theology at the University of Vienna and thus has his license to teach theology from Cardinal Schönborn himself.

    Under the guidance of the president of the Austrian Bishops’ Conference, Cardinal Schönborn himself, the Austrian news agency had also additionally published an article on 23 September concerning the above-mentioned conference about the gender theory. In this article, several feminists who spoke at this conference are quoted as promoting the idea of a feminist theology and further promoting the influence of women in general within the Church. They also discredit the gathering resistance against the gender ideology and compare “anti-Genderism” with “other right-wing populist movements.”

    With just these few statements to consider and to reflect upon, a Catholic can easily recognize that the Viennese Archdiocese is here giving inordinate scope to a strong undermining of those orthodox Catholic prelates and laymen – such as Cardinal Robert Sarah and Cardinal Carlo Caffarra – who try to defend the traditional Catholic teaching on marriage and the family in its entirety. It sheds additional light upon what Cardinal Schönborn is progressively promoting, not just allowing, in his own diocese. Thus, it seems doubtful to say that he is leading his sheep in the right direction, although that is the express opinion of the pope.
  15. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    Thank you, Brian, for confirming, with the above two posts, that Pope Francis and Cardinal Schonborn are both very much on the same page with regard to discerment, beliefs and pastoral practice. Although we hardly needed this confirmation. All Medjugorje lovers should rejoice that the Cardinal's invitation to the visionary, Ivan, to witness in his cathedral (see the information at ) is indeed a confirmation that Pope Francis is fully supportive of Medjugorje and will never allow harm to come to it from the Vatican.

    As to the onepeterfive website article, goodness me, they really must be struggling to find material to attack Pope Francis and his supporters if this is the best they can do. It requires quite a bit of effort to actually find out what their problem is but it seems to be that they think Cardinal Schonborn is too open to listening to views about gender theory but maybe it's something else.

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