Padraig says these Archbishops are evil

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by jerry, Jul 9, 2016.

  1. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    MMM was/is an older member who has been off of the forum for a while.
    I was just extending a welcome back :)
    djmoforegon likes this.

    SOLADY Angels

    That's why we have to go back to the true teachings of the church! we will help our families, the people, the priests of our communities by doing so.
    The problem where the popes are steadfastly refusing to exercise the authority that they rightfully have and that has been exercised in the past since apostolic times is part of the present crisis in the Catholic Church today. The popes are steadfastly refusing to exercise the authority that they rightfully have that has been exercised in the past since apostolic times. There can be no compromises on doctrine nor on the integrity of the Catholic Faith.

    Their defiance led the church to stray away from Apostolic Succession. “I believe in One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church" no longer is in today's catholic church because of the invalid new mass! Were not getting Sanctifying Grace; the supernatural state of being infused by God, which permanently inheres in the soul the temporary supernatural intervention by God to enlighten the mind or strengthen the will to perform supernatural actions that lead to heaven. Actual grace is divine assistance to enable man to obtain, retain, or grow in supernatural grace and the life of God, but because our popes have strayed away from Apostolic Succession we all suffer the consequences.
  3. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    I understand what MMM is saying and I don't feel comfortable judging these cardinals. In addition, I can't believe I referred to them as "these guys" but I do feel that something is not quite right.
    Booklady likes this.
  4. djmoforegon

    djmoforegon Powers

    Not everyone has a taste for Michael Voris who created Church Militant. He and his crew came up with a list of the 20 most damaging Catholics, Bishops and Cardinals included. I believe we have to acknowledge the players who may have a great deal to do with the downfall and degradation of our Church. We at least have to be aware of their existense, decide for ourselves what to make of their contributions, and at the very least, pray for them. But we must do so with our eyes open and defend the true faith.

    I'm most concerned about their impact on my children, my extended family and uninformed friends. I have had to debunk the "new Catholicism" that they leave in their wake. I do so with respect for their office; Christ created it!

    Part one: Feb. 4th, 2016

    Part two: Feb. 5th, 2016
  5. BrianK

    BrianK Proud2bRC Staff Member

  6. Clare A

    Clare A Archangels

    It's been interesting looking at the names and making one's own list. Unfortunately, Voris and co have focused on the US and ignored the rest of the world. My own list would be headed by Bugnini, and followed by the heterodox theologians, because those are the ones who were studied in seminaries, whose works have helped to 'form' the priests we have today - and those priests influence the person in the pew. I could remove some of the less well-known churchmen and add some Europeans. And why so many priests? Are there not some lay people and women who could add to the unholy mix (nuns are technically 'lay')? I'm thinking of people like Jack Dominian who have done so much to confuse people about what the Church teaches, following the spirit of the world in matters of human sexuality.

    It might also be a useful exercise to list those people in our time who have contributed for good in the Church. Some are already saints. But how about Mother Angelica, Alice von Hildebrand, Joseph Ratzinger? Just for starters?
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
    Booklady likes this.

    SOLADY Angels

    remember back in 1963 with the vatican ll? these priests are apostate and it was all done to destroy and scandalize the people and the true catholic church from within. the reporter also said it stems as far back as forty years, that would take us back to 1976; see what that brought us below.

    d) The claim that the pope possesses universal immediate jurisdiction, the limits of which are not clearly specified, is a source of anxiety to Anglicans who fear that the way is thus open to its illegitimate or uncontrolled use. Nevertheless, the First Vatican Council intended that the papal primacy should be exercised only to maintain and never to erode the structures of the local churches. The Roman Catholic Church is today seeking to replace the juridical outlook of the nineteenth century by a more pastoral understanding of authority in the Church. (what!)

    Thats disobedience to the Magisterium, and rejection of Church teaching!

    The word “pastoral” has taken on a new, unexpressed meaning. The new meaning is often related to the ideas contained in words like “permissiveness,” “pragmatism” and “relativism.” We hear calls for a “pastoral solution” to some problem. What does that mean? Sadly, it often means either bypassing ,or going against, Church teaching and Church law “for the good of the faithful.” (heaven help us all especially the innocent!)
  8. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    How We Misunderstand ‘Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin’

    A while back, an old friend of mine sat down across the table from me and looked up with the biggest smile on her face. "We finally had sex," she said. "And it has changed everything. We are so much closer now. It's like all of our problems just disappeared!"

    Now, our culture would insist that I be happy for my friend and her boyfriend. After all, she was happy with her actions, and that's all that matters, right? That's what I believed at the time, so I took the easy way out and put on a smile for my friend, fake though it was.

    We are becoming more and more interested in the idea of acceptance. For the most part, this is a great thing. The old, ugly theology of using love as a way to disguise judgement and hatred has given way to a warmer, healthier Christian community.

    But, as with many cultural shifts, there is a balance to keep in mind. In our efforts to “love the sinner, hate the sin,” we often find it easier to ignore the sin altogether, and confuse blind acceptance with genuine love.

    And in a lot of ways that’s a good thing—we should humble ourselves to listen to, love and accept others. But in a culture where "Only God can judge me" is a common phrase heard among believers and non-believers alike, it's easy to wonder: Are we getting love and acceptance all wrong?

    The Harsh Reality
    The word "acceptance" as seen in our world today is really just a flowery covering for another not so beautiful word that none of us really wants to say: superficiality. Nobody wants to be or have a fake friend, and yet we're all buying into a mindset that does nothing but foster surface level relationships.

    So, when a friend has a real problem—perhaps an unhealthy addiction, a prideful attitude or even a problem with judging others—we're tempted to leave them be. We don't want to come across as unloving, so we use love as an excuse to avoid difficult conversations.

    Love is messy and hard, while acceptance is clean and easy. Love sometimes means telling your friends they're wrong. It sometimes means calling them out on their behavior.

    I'm guilty of it too. In the aforementioned conversation, in my effort to be accepting of whatever made my friend happy, I was straying further and further away from the type of friend God calls us to be. In spite of what the world tells me, the Bible tells me that I am to hold my brothers and sisters accountable. This doesn’t mean I should have shamed my friend or launched into a lecture about purity, but given our level of friendship, I could have asked some questions or voiced loving concern.

    True friendship, especially among believers, means we don’t just look the other way when a friend is doing something that may be harmful in the long run. Saying, "Yes you are sinning, but it's making you happy. So just keep sinning!" may be easier and a lot less messy than the alternative, but it is ultimately destructive. So while you may think that just accepting someone's sinful behavior makes you a good friend, the harsh reality is that it actually makes you a selfish one.

    Love vs. Acceptance
    "Love the sinner, hate the sin" has meant different things to different generations. Sometimes, it’s been used as an excuse to essentially ostracize people we view as “sinners” from the Church. But I often see our generation leaning too far the other direction: most of us take the phrase to mean, "Accept the sinner and their sinful behaviors, and just secretly hate the sin."

    The truth is, love and acceptance are not the same thing. The even bigger truth is that love is messy and hard, while acceptance is clean and easy. Love says, "Your actions are hurting you. And because I love you, I am going to hold you accountable."

    Love sometimes means telling your friends they're wrong. It sometimes means calling them out on their behavior. Love sometimes means disagreements and arguments, but those ultimately lead to personal and spiritual growth.

    The alternative would be allowing your friends to participate in behavior that is harmful to them and their salvation. I think we often forget the reality of Romans 6:23, which says that the consequence of sin is death. It is very straightforward and clear about that. It then goes onto say that in spite of this, our gift from God is eternal life. I say that acceptance of a friend's sin is allowing them to go down a destructive path because of this truth spoken in Romans. The continuation of sinful behavior results in death. The acceptance of Christ—that is, leaving your earthly desires behind to pick up your cross and follow Him—leads to eternal life.

    True love does not simply accept sin, because true love wants the best for our brothers and sisters. True love doesn't just accept because true love cannot accept death for our brothers and sisters. So yes, love can get messy. It can be painful because it makes for more vulnerable relationships. But these are the relationships that are real. These are the relationships that encourage change and foster growth through the promotion of truth.

    Grace on Grace on Grace
    The thing about love is that it is so tightly tied to grace. Because real love is vulnerable and sometimes painful, grace is always necessary on both sides. Grace is necessary when a friend calls out your sinful behavior. We are all sinners in need of accountability, so there will inevitably be times when our own sins will be brought to light. Grace in these moments is realizing that you are being called out because you are being loved.

    We are all sinful—no one person more sinful than the other. We should be coming from a place of love, rather than judgment or condescension.

    And on the other end, grace is necessary when calling out a brother or sister. Grace in this situation is also realizing that we are all sinful—no one person more sinful than the other—and in that, we should be coming from a place of love, rather than judgment or condescension. This practicing of grace on grace on grace over and over again is the key to the growth and change that happens in real relationships. Grace is what makes us. It is what shapes us. And through Christ's death on the cross and in our day-to-day relationships, grace is what saves us.

    It is important to love all of God's children. From the tax collectors to the Pharisees to the priests, we are all sinners.

    Christian love says, "I love you for the broken, sinful person that you are. And because I love you, I will encourage you to be the man or woman you are called to be in Christ."

    Don't just take the easy way out by condoning the continuation of sin, but rather, speak the truth in love and see real change and growth happen.
    Jeanne likes this.
  9. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Again there has been use here of the misunderstood line in Scripture, ' Judge not less you be judged'. This does not mean we are to self administer some kind of lobotomy in which we vouluntarily remove a good portion of our brain and have our eyes , tongue and ears amputated in some false pietistic penance. What jedue not lest you be judged means is how you judge is how you wil lbe judged.

    In other words be careful that your judgements are fair and just. Not that Jesus wants to turn us into some kind of robotic zombies who see no evil, hear no evil or speak no evil

    A lot of evil monsters out there would be happy to see us turn into zombies by that is not what Jesus wants.

    Currently the CHurch is being driven towards a cliff at high speed. Asking the driver to tuRn or stop is exercising Good Judgement. Keeping your mouth shut , closing your eyes and hoPing it is all going to end soon is excercising Bad Judgement.

    What esle can I say?



  10. padraig

    padraig New Member

  11. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Sigh where's my high blood pressue tablets.

  12. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Maranatha

    I believe there is some debate about who Mutter Vogel was, and whether her 'revelations' were ever approved by the Church.
  13. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    My web search threw up loads of questions about Mutter Vogel and a Pieta prayer book. The general consensus of replies seems to be that the prayers in the book were good but other content was not on grounds that it was either heretical or not approved by the Church.

    According to someone on the EWTN site, she is not listed in the old Catholic Encyclopedia or in the Dictionary of Catholic Biography

    My search also produced an old Catholic Answers thread asking about her. Someone called Deacon Harry gave this response:

    "She actually existed and was a member of my wife's family. She is buried at the Waldfriedhof in Munich,Germany. She devoted her life to praying for priests. There was a book written about her life called "Mutter Vogls Weltweite Liebe" first published in 1961 in Germany. Unfortunately it was not translated into English, but we have a copy."

    Most likely a very pious lady but I can find no evidence that her "revelations" were approved by the Church. Perhaps they were never submitted for approval.
  14. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Regarding Mutter Vogel, it appears that the book about her life Mutter Vogls Weltweite Liebe was written by a priest named Alfons Maria Weigl. Here's a link to a "Kathpedia" page about him which is in German I don't know what "Kathpedia" is - a German version of Wikipedia perhaps? On second thoughts, it could be some kind of online Catholic encyclopaedia in the German language.
  15. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I think I understand where Mutter Vogel was coming form , she was talking about petty gossip like, The Priest is too fond of the house keeper or the Bishop hits the whiskey too much. This rather than the awful situation we are confronted with ,arch heretics and paedophiles.
  16. MMM

    MMM Archangels

    This is closer to the point I was making. Obviously calling out motal sins and obvious errors and preventing them when possible is the right thing to do, this isn't even debatable. But all too often we think we are right, think we know more than we actually do and this can be dangerous if our intentions arn't pure.

    My only point really is when we meet Jesus and he asks what we did to help our brothers and sisters... (and no I have no idea what He will ask but I see Him more like this) saying I spend untold time highlighting and exposing the sins and errors of your consecrated souls isn't likely going to get you much credit, it could even work against you depending on your motives. It could create negative effects on other souls despite good intentions. He may ask did you spend time praying for them? Did you implore my mercy on their souls? Why did you spend so much time talking about others instead of with Me about your worries and fears? Did you not trust Me and my plan for salvation? Did you build up or tear down my body?

    I don't know the questions or the answers but do find debating can become a fruitless spinning wheel getting no one forward. I am trying to spend more time than I ever have before asking for divine mercy and the flame of love mercy upon all sinners. Frankly there is little else most of us can do.
  17. padraig

    padraig New Member

    At he minute I'd be more concerned about Jesus punching me on the nose for keeping quiet and keeping my head below the parapet at a time when I should have been hollering my head off about what;s gone on. The Good Lord knows I 've done some good sound solid 90 decible hollering about what's going down in the Vatican at the moment, what concerns me is I should maybe have been hollering a lot harder.

    Recall there are not only sins of commision but sins of ommision , of not doing things like hollering when you should have been hollering thw house down. If there ever was a time in the entire history of the Church needed some good hollering it is this one.

    Probably the best person we ever had at hollering was St Catheirne of Siena, she certainly knew how to kick Bishops and Cardinals and Popes fat asses. I just wish she were around now to do it now when we need her most.

    ..and of coure Mother Angleica hollered like crazy at the rotten devils done up in purple and scarlet and told them were to get off to their faces, bless her.

    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
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  18. any name you wish

    any name you wish Archangels

    Vogel is a German last name, but it seems funny that she's being called means 'Mother Bird', sounds a lot like 'Mother Goose', doesn't it! :D:D:D

    Seriously tho, I looked into it and can't find much aside from the above link, but noticed there that it was spelled "Vogl", without the 'e' is weird but maybe it's a local dialect (German has lots of those).

    It seems like the only information about her comes from Weigl, and I can't find an online version of his works (although it's in a couple libraries in Germany, which doesn't help me much in California). Closest I could find is this excerpt : .
  19. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Well here's Mother Angelica giving old Mother Vogel something to worry about, letting some of the clergy have it with both barrells. My hero. :D

    Totus tuus likes this.
  20. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Ah how I LOVED THAT OLD SAINT Mother Angelica. What an example. I might take an occasional side swipe at them with a baseball bat, Mother Ageclica let fire a whole fleet of ICBM nukes in their direction.

    Sigh. When will we see her likes again? Just when we needed her down here Too!

    Booklady likes this.

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