One of the Four Cardinals Dies before the Dubia are Answered

Discussion in 'In Memoriam' started by Jarg, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    But we can't forget there have been heretical popes and anti popes before, even if just for a very short time. St Peter was indeed the first pope to become an antipope of shorts. He joined the crowd and without even realizing it became part of the mob persecuting Christ. Ventura never spoke of a specific pope, he is just making a supposition based on private revelations, church fathers and the book of revelation.

    I also wonder when the Virgin has said that it will be the lay people that will save the church. That however has already happened at least once. In Bl. Cardinal Newman's Arian you can see it was the lay people who saved the church from Arianism. The vast majority of the lay faithful were against the vast majority of the bishops and political authorities, including the Emperor and the bishop of Rome, who for the sake of unity sided or conceded to the manichean Arian theological propositions. Only st Athanasius and about 8 other bishops of more than 300 were firm against all the rest. And the faithful didn't err by remaining inside the barque of Peter - rather the other way around. Even though they were helpless and the non Arian bishops had been suppressed, their resistance was fearless, and God turned things around in the most unexpected of ways because according to human logic standards the Church should have remained Arian.

    What Ventura is saying is that at some point there could be a heretical pope (not an evil pope but one that without even realizing it sides withe the mentality of the world and acts like the world expects him to). Then a mystical pope, not a pope that starts an alternative church, just a validly elected pope that will be a lay person, which would be a way of pushing aside the official Church (meaning not the Church but the 'Sanhedrin,' that is the Church 'high priests', academies and other Vatican institutions that by then would have been totally corrupted) .
  2. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Ah, now I understand. Thank you Jarg.

    I'm still of the opinion that the FP will be a high profile bishop. Perhaps he will be excommunicated by a holy Pope or perhaps he will simply leave and take many of the hierarchy and faithful with him. Looking at some of them, faced with the choice of no fixed abode, public transport and derision from the mass media if they choose to obey the Pope, or a well appointed residence, a BMW (Audi or Merc for the Germans) and acclaim from the mass media if they choose to oppose the Pope, the barque would be empty before you counted to ten.
  3. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Thank God for old Churches, how I love them:) How blessed they are in Italy to have Churches dating back to not so long after the Early Martrys...and in Rome so many Churches with the body of a saint... just imagine.

    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  4. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I believe the poor man hangs on the Cross, I don't envy him. I can see why people often cry when elected Pope. Who would want it?
    AED likes this.
  5. padraig

    padraig New Member

    The Exorcists tell us that prayers said in Latin are much more powerful than those said in the secular. I believe this to be true. But why , then is it true. Perhaps it is in a sense because the devils are essentially Conservative. That they are Conservative in the fact that they have a sense of history. Were then does Latin lead them to in history. Why, I would have thought if I were a devil the fist place it would take me is to Pilate and the crucifixation, the sing for instance on the Cross that proclaimed Jesus , King of the Jews. If that were not bad enough the first 34 Popes who died martyrs all spoke Latin. These are the very Latin Foundation of the Church.

    We might forget, the devils don't.


    SgCatholic likes this.
  6. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I have a relative who is an Irish priest and when I was about 20 years old I took a trip to Europe and he took me and a few close friends of his to Rome. One of the most amazing memories I have is that he took us into a building that was used for something else, I forget what. It was a store or a restaurant or something, but he knew the owners and they let us in the basement. When we went down there a part of it was a first century hidden chapel with a stone altar and "fish" designs all over. He celebrated Mass there and we all got to attend. It was amazing being able to actually experience a Mass in the same hidden room that early Christians did while they were still in hiding from the Romans. Unfortunately I was too young to fully appreciate it, but I understood it enough to know it was a very special and sacred place even though it was currently just a basement.
    Carol55, sterph, padraig and 2 others like this.
  7. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I think one of the Churches in Rome was actually a house that belonged to a Senator and his daughter who both converted. This was a time of persecution so they let their house be used in secret. Just imagine. Of course in places like China this still goes on today.

  8. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    Another of the four dubia Cardinals just passed away, at only 79...great loss for the Church.

    Cardinal Caffarra, one of the ‘dubia’ cardinals, has died aged 79
    by Staff Reporter

    posted Wednesday, 6 Sep 2017
    Cardinal Carlo Caffarra (CNS photo/Paul Haring)
    He is the second 'dubia' cardinal to die in the space of two months

    Cardinal Carlo Caffarra, one of the four cardinals who submitted the ‘dubia’ to Pope Francis, has died.

    The cardinal served as Archbishop of Bologna for 11 years from 2004 to 2015, and was created Cardinal by Pope Benedict XVI in 2006.

    Cardinal Caffarra was one of four – along with Cardinals Joachim Meisner, Walter Brandmüller and Raymond Leo Burke – who presented the ‘dubia’ to Pope Francis asking him to clear up controversies surrounding Amoris Laetitia.

    His death comes just two months after that of Cardinal Meisner, leaving just two living ‘dubia’ cardinals.

    In June, it was revealed the four cardinals had sought an audience with the Pope after he failed to answer their questions, but did not receive a response.
  9. Pray4peace

    Pray4peace Ave Maria

    What a sad least I hope it's merely coincidence.

    I wonder if he had a prolonged illness or if his death was sudden.
  10. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

    I have a hard time not finding any coincidence! My first inclination is believing a untimely demise. But will place it in God's hands. Ugh:(
    SgCatholic likes this.
  11. CrewDog

    CrewDog Guest

  12. Dean

    Dean Archangels

    understand but they are 80 year old men. Not a shock
  13. AED

    AED Powers

    Think how powerful his prayers will be from "the other side"
    It may be that God is simply bringing him home before the hard times get here in earnest.
    Don_D and Mary's child like this.
  14. padraig

    padraig New Member

    The French Betancourts are pouring in dough to support Port Francis...... the 10th richest in the world...


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