One of the Four Cardinals Dies before the Dubia are Answered

Discussion in 'In Memoriam' started by Jarg, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

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  2. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    To those who don’t realize who is capsizing the Church, the enemy is the Modernists. Modernism is not a new foe. It is a condemned heresy and the Popes have been fighting it for a long time. We have been warned about its infiltration into the Church many times. St. Pope Pius X wrote an encyclical against it called Pascendi Dominici Gregis. It was written over a hundred years ago but it sounds like it could have been written yesterday about the troubles we are facing in the Church today. Here is an excerpt from the encyclical:

    The Modernists pass judgment on the holy Fathers of the Church even as they do upon tradition. With consummate temerity they assure the public that the Fathers, while personally most worthy of all veneration, were entirely ignorant of history and criticism, for which they are only excusable on account of the time in which they lived. Finally, the Modernists try in every way to diminish and weaken the authority of the ecclesiastical magisterium itself by sacrilegiously falsifying its origin, character, and rights, and by freely repeating the calumnies of its adversaries. To the entire band of Modernists may be applied those words which Our predecessor sorrowfully wrote: "To bring contempt and odium on the mystic Spouse of Christ, who is the true light, the children of darkness have been wont to cast in her face before the world a stupid calumny, and perverting the meaning and force of things and words, to depict her as the friend of darkness and ignorance, and the enemy of light, science, and progress.''

    [23] This being so, Venerable Brethren, there is little reason to wonder that the Modernists vent all their bitterness and hatred on Catholics who zealously fight the battles of the Church. There is no species of insult which they do not heap upon them, but their usual course is to charge them with ignorance or obstinacy. When an adversary rises up against them with an erudition and force that renders them redoubtable, they seek to make a conspiracy of silence around him to nullify the effects of his attack. This policy towards Catholics is the more invidious in that they belaud with admiration which knows no bounds the writers who range themselves on their side, hailing their works, exuding novelty in every page, with a chorus of applause. For them the scholarship of a writer is in direct proportion to the recklessness of his attacks on antiquity, and of his efforts to undermine tradition and the ecclesiastical magisterium. When one of their number falls under the condemnations of the Church the rest of them, to the disgust of good Catholics, gather round him, loudly and publicly applaud him, and hold him up in veneration as almost a martyr for truth. The young, excited and confused by all this clamor of praise and abuse, some of them afraid of being branded as ignorant, others ambitious to rank among the learned, and both classes goaded internally by curiosity and pride, not infrequently surrender and give themselves up to Modernism.

    -Encyclical Letter Pascendi Dominici Gregis, September 8, 1907
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  3. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I was praying last night about what is coming in the Church. With the recent statement by Pope Benedict at the funeral of Cardinal Meisner there seems very real concerns about were true spiritual leadership in the Church resides. Am I, for instance to listen to Pope Benedict or Pope Francis? Yes nightmare of nightmares it may even reach the point of schism with people even asking who the true Pope really is.

    I was fretting what would be the right course of action to take if it ever comes ot that, which I have to say seems daily more likely. Then I realised I would do what I always do when difficulties come in life, turn to Our Blessed Lady and do as she says. What could be simpler? :)

    But then I thought I was being more than a little selfish thinking of myself. What of the millions and millions of ordinary Catholics who are lost and confused and will become even more so? What of those who listen to false teachers unawares? What of them?

    Then it came to me at ponce God has the answer. God has to intervene to sort matters out, to put an end to all this wickedness in the CHurch..and with the 100th centenary of Fatima he is just about to do so!!
  4. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    EWTN's Papal Posse discussing recent events in the Vatican. They must feel like they're living in a nightmare.

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  5. AED

    AED Powers

    Oh Padraig "from your mouth to God's ears!" Only God can sort this out. It is on a human level terrifying but I must remember that with God all things are possible.
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  6. AED

    AED Powers

    This could have been written yesterday.
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  7. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    After reading Tossati's article on Meisner I got a very clear feeling that pope Benedict was not pressured into abdicating. He saw the papacy as a heavy cross because he had no physical strength nor managerial abilities to carry it, he saw himself as totally unfit for it:"You can't do this to me!" he told Meisner during the conclave of 2005. But he took that cross willingly because he understood it was God's will. I think his abdication was really the fruit of understanding again God's will. If he had been pressured people close to him like Meisner would have spoken in some way. This is a mistery that we are beginning to understand: somehow Benedict, as the contemplative pope (he has said so) continues to carry the heavy cross of the Church's growing apostasy that comes all the way from the 70's. What God is allowing with Benedict's obedient abdication is the unveiling of all the filth, of all the diabolical doctrines now working at full steam in the Church and presented as continuity, sensible, merciful, cohereant. I think the unveiling will continue, and Benedict will continue to carry such a heavy cross, because the Church needs to sink much more deeply for everyone to really see what's going on. We are going to somehow arrive to the end of this from the other side, the side of filth, from behind it will come the light, when all seems lost.
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
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  8. AED

    AED Powers

    Very astute and hopeful analysis and very plausible.
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  9. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

  10. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    I think things will continue to get muddier and muddier, until the Warning comes. The Warning will be the only thing to correct the many errors within heterodox Catholic teaching, Protestant teachings and all other religions teachings. We must pray to hasten this day, so all with a sincere heart know His way's, His truth.
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  11. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Thanks be to God that he has not left us orphan, but has given us prophets for our time to keep the true faith and follow the true magisterium.
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  12. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Let us all be thankful that EWTN has picked up on and understands the errors that are spreading through the Church. To many this television station is their only link with what is going on in the greater Catholic world.

    At one point the U.S. Catholic Bishops tried to wrest control of EWTN from Mother Angelica but she fought to remain independent of them. Let us all be thankful she did!

    Slowly many of the other loyal Catholic journalists are coming to see what has happening too. I understand how difficult it must be for them to come to grips with all of this. I do not envy them their job.
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  13. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I believe what happened to Cardinal Meisner was he saw they were not getting anywhere with Pope Francis, so he offered his soul up to God as a victim to save the Church. God accepted his sacrifice and took him home but before he died he clued Pope Benedict in on what had happened. This has lighted a fire under Pope Benedict's posterior and here we are.

    I would say Pope Francis finds himself in a very,very uncomfortable place indeed at the moment. He must feel besieged. The lie that he and his henchmen are putting forward mainline Catholic thought is buried.
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  14. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
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  15. padraig

    padraig New Member

    If I have anything to do with it Cardinal Meisner will be canonised before I die.;):)

    What comes around goes around.

    Pay back

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  16. Sunnyveil

    Sunnyveil Archangels

    From the blog, akacatholic. This is divided over two posts due to word limits.

    The article makes 3 main points regarding Pope Benedict's written message delivered at Cardinal Meisner's funeral:
    1) Pope Francis controls Pope Benedict's public life 100%
    2) The dictatorship of relativism of which Pope Benedict forcefully spoke over a decade ago now exists within the Church
    3) Pope Benedict is calling for bishops to stand up to this dictatorship

    BREAKING: Benedict issues clarion call to all bishops

    Cardinal Ratzinger delivers sermon, Pro Eligendo Romano Pontifice, 18 April 2005

    The message sent by Benedict to be read aloud at the funeral of Cardinal Meisner is generating a great deal of buzz in Catholic circles, and for good reason.

    Even so, some very important aspects of the text don’t seem to be getting nearly enough attention. Before we get to that, however, let’s take a moment to consider just how extraordinary this situation truly is.

    We have good reason to believe that Benedict is a man “under wraps,” if you will. One might even suggest that he is being held captive to some extent.

    Yes, I know… It sounds like a Dan Brown novel, but let’s not forget yet another bombshell that Benedict managed to lob into the public record; this one dated October 2014.

    Recall that Benedict had responded by letter to an invitation that he received to participate in a Pontifical High Mass as part of a Summorum Pontificum pilgrimage in Rome.

    The Pope Contemplatus wrote:

    “My state as a ‘cloistered monk’ does not allow me a presence that is also exterior. I leave my cloister only in particular cases, [when] personally invited by the Pope.”

    Get that?

    Benedict plainly, albeit cleverly, informed the world that he is not “allowed an exterior presence” unless personally invited by Francis. Not allowed!

    This is a far cry from what Benedict said just 20 months earlier when he announced his resignation:

    “With regard to myself, I wish to also devotedly serve the Holy Church of God in the future through a life dedicated to prayer.” (Benedict XVI, February 11, 2013)

    How did we get from choosing “a life dedicated to prayer” to becoming a “cloistered monk” who can only leave his cloister when personally invited by the Pope?

    The solitary conclusion that can be drawn from this is that the veritable imprisonment of which Benedict spoke isn’t his own idea; it had to have come from his “superior,” that is, Francis himself.

    Let’s be clear:

    Benedict is not one to shoot from the hip. He chooses his words carefully. Of this we can be especially certain when it comes to a written text, and this applies to both the letter of 2014 and the one that we’re about to discuss.

    With this in mind, let’s now take a closer look at the message that was read aloud at Cardinal Meisner’s funeral.

    First, it seems obvious that the two men had a close relationship and spoke rather regularly. We are told, in fact, that they had spoken just the day before the cardinal died.

    Benedict further relates:

    “What particularly impressed me from my last conversations [NOTE: plural] with the now passed Cardinal was the relaxed cheerfulness, the inner joy and the confidence at which he had arrived.”

    From the content of the message, one gets the impression that the two men had a “fraternal” relationship.

    Benedict went on to relate concerning their final conversation that Cardinal Meisner was pleased to be on vacation. This is just the kind of thing one might expect to come up when good buddies shoot the breeze, right?

    Sure, but don’t be fooled.

    In spite of however many years their friendship went back, Cardinal Meisner was “old school” enough that there is little doubt that he saw his relationship with Benedict primarily as one of Holy Father and son.

    In other words, Benedict was someone from whom the cardinal could seek guidance, and we can be certain that it was always carefully considered when given.

    Note that Benedict wrote of the cheerfulness, joy and confidence at which Cardinal Meisner had arrived.

    Evidently, he was Meisner’s confident even prior to this point; presumably in the lead up to the dubia.

    One wonders what kind of advice, if any, Benedict may have given to Cardinal Meisner in those days…

    We can only speculate, of course, but two things seem very unlikely:

    Firstly, that Meisner would have failed to seek Benedict’s counsel before participating in the dubia, and secondly, that he would have added his name to the text had Benedict counseled against it.

    At this, we come to the money quote:

    “What moved me all the more was that, in this last period of his life, he learned to let go and to live out of a deep conviction that the Lord does not abandon His Church, even if the boat has taken on so much water as to be on the verge of capsizing.”

    I get the sense that Benedict may have been speaking of himself to some extent – learning to let go in this last period of life; arriving at a place of relaxed cheerfulness, inner joy and confidence in spite of the unprecedented turmoil in the Church (to say nothing of one’s own contribution to it).

    Either way, I think it’s safe to say that Benedict had a hand in leading his son, Cardinal Meisner, to this point of resignation (no pun intended).

    Before we discuss the capsizing Church and the extent to which it represents a cleverly delivered critique of Captain Bergoglio, I’d like to focus on that portion of the text that was read just prior as it is critically important:

    “The Church stands in particularly pressing need of convincing shepherds who can resist the dictatorship of the spirit of the age and who live and think the faith with determination.”
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  17. Sunnyveil

    Sunnyveil Archangels

    Akacatholic blogpost Part II:


    Again, let us be certain that Benedict has chosen his words very carefully.
    From this, we can glean a couple of things.

    One, in the eyes of the world, the Church is fast crumbling to the point of irrelevancy; so much so that her detractors are moved to taunt the faithful in the manner of the Pharisees:

    Your Church is beaten and bloodied. Where is your Lord now; sleeping?

    Through the eyes of faith, however, while we recognize the severity of the ecclesial crisis as much or more than anyone, we know that it only appears as if Our Lord has left us to perish. We know that He is ever the true Head of His Church, and He will not let her fail.

    More specifically as it concerns Dictator Bergoglio, this scene from the Gospels is highly relevant.

    In the interest of space, I invite you to read (or reread as the case may be) the following post from June 2015: The Church will doubt as Peter doubted…

    There you will find a treatment of Our Lady’s warning as given at Fatima and the commentary of Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli (the future Pope Pius XII) concerning it:

    “This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a divine warning against the suicide of altering the Faith, in Her liturgy, Her theology and Her soul … A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. She will be tempted to believe that man has become God.”

    In the above-mentioned scene described in Matthew’s Gospel, Bergoglio is represented (if you will allow) by Peter who is among those who ask of Jesus, What manner of man is this?

    Long story short, he knows that Jesus is a man, but he doubts that He is God.

    As I argue in the post linked above, the entire Bergoglian menace rests upon just such a Christological heresy; namely, doubt concerning the divinity of Jesus Christ.

    In conclusion, it seems as if the most profound aspect of Benedict’s message as read at the funeral of Cardinal Meisner has been overlooked by many:

    Having painted this dreadful and stunningly accurate portrait of the Dictator Bergoglio, Benedict issued a call directed at the entire episcopate:

    “The Church stands in particularly pressing need of convincing shepherds who can resist the dictatorship…”

    Bishops of the world, are you listening
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  18. AED

    AED Powers

    I pray you are right. Clearly something profound happened.
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  19. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

    In order for God's plan to come to completion we need a Judas moment. Remember in order for Jesus to walk the road to our salvation, Judas betrayed him. In our time in order for God's plan to come to fullness he is being betrayed again. I am praying for the spiritual strength to be able to know and understand so that I can avoid failing our Lord.
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