My Loss of Trust in the Vatican

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by Mario, Jul 19, 2021.

  1. Mario

    Mario Powers

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/vatica...-priests-to-register-with-beijing-11561731404

    This abandonment of Chinese Catholics into the hands of CCP was for me a dagger in the heart for any confidence in Vatican discernment. China continues its horrific persecution unabated.

    How is this related to the latest Motu Proprio? This document signals the plan to significantly curtail and bring to an eventual end the freedom to celebrate the Traditional Latin Mass. Though I currently attend the Novus Ordo Mass, I was comforted to see young families participating in Holy Mass and remaining in the Barque of Peter in these troubled times. Why suppress what has proven to be such a magnet to attract the young? Is this truly necessary? Again, no matter what justification is presented, to me it is insanity.

    These two issues (I won't mention the third), are the final straws that grieve my heart and cause me to lose confidence in the Vatican of this pontificate. I weep. :cry: Pray and fast!

    O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
     
  2. non sum dignus

    non sum dignus Archangels

    Mario...

    God has this.
    It will not be long.

    Reading I
    Jer 23:1-6
    Woe to the shepherds
    who mislead and scatter the flock of my pasture,
    says the LORD.
    Therefore, thus says the LORD, the God of Israel,
    against the shepherds who shepherd my people:
    You have scattered my sheep and driven them away.
    You have not cared for them,
    but I will take care to punish your evil deeds.
    I myself will gather the remnant of my flock
    from all the lands to which I have driven them
    and bring them back to their meadow;
    there they shall increase and multiply.
    I will appoint shepherds for them who will shepherd them
    so that they need no longer fear and tremble;
    and none shall be missing, says the LORD.

    Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD,
    when I will raise up a righteous shoot to David;
    as king he shall reign and govern wisely,
    he shall do what is just and right in the land.
    In his days Judah shall be saved,
    Israel shall dwell in security.
    This is the name they give him:
    “The LORD our justice.”
     
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  3. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I caught this in today's Mass and had the same thoughts about it!
     
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  4. Michael Pio

    Michael Pio Archangels

    Dear Mario,
    My prayers are with you. I have experienced this loss of trust in 2018, after reading a book. Yes, I agree, praying and fasting are our only remedies. I need to lift my game here. Let us stay united in prayer and strong in our work areas, without giving in to the ever increasing pressure.
    Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless and the treasury of compassion inexhaustible, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.

    May God bless you abundantly, and protect us and this forum,
    Michael.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  5. Michael Pio

    Michael Pio Archangels

    How fitting!
     
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  6. Mario

    Mario Powers

    It was fun this past weekend.:) My Pastor invited me to preach (an infrequent event). Such beautiful readings: Jesus our true Shepherd!

    Feed Your flock, dear Lord Jesus!
     
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  7. miker

    miker Powers

    I’m so sorry to read this post as your pain is so palpable. And knowing your an ordained minister and you and your wife have raised two men who discerned vocations makes it extra hard. Know that I and many on this forum are praying for you.
     
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  8. Michael Pio

    Michael Pio Archangels

    Yes, I wholeheartedly agree.
     
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  9. RoryRory

    RoryRory Perseverance

    I attended my first Latin mass today in 60 years I guess. I am 72. Such a hard time for us spiritually but we must persevere. The wonderful old priest who said mass is to be commended- saved by The Blessed Mother early in his priesthood he told us.
     
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  10. Michael Pio

    Michael Pio Archangels

    Yes, this is awesome. Praise the Lord!
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
  11. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    The hypocrisy is simply stunning.

    'Priests should be shepherds living with the smell of the sheep.'

    Unless that smell is latin then we abandon the sheep. Who cares about the chinese sheep?

    I think at a future time the church will determine that this was an invalid 'pachamama' pontificate (the idol worship was the turning point for me)

    PF is a political Pope who doesn't care about the sheep just like politicians who don't care about the voters -- there are too many alarm bells ringing in my head under this pontificate - there is something deeply fishy in the Vatican, a pungent odour that is nasty, that smells of decay like a dead sheep floating down the Tiber river.

    Despite the millions of prayer being offered for PF he continues on his merry path of destruction of the faith like a wrecking ball.

    Incompetence, ignorance, vindictiveness?

    Which one is it? - it is not for me to judge!
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  12. andree

    andree Powers

    I see these painful events as part of God's hand in purifying His Bride. There is suffering for sure in the Body of Christ, but He has been trying for so long to purify His Bride. Have they/we listened and obeyed? Have we done everything possible for this purification? I cannot help but think of the many, many messages that I have read that reveal profound dysfunctions in seminaries, convents etc - and I'm not talking about the public scandals, but of the improper disposition of hearts that are not given over completely to the Lord. He says it over and over again through prophets who are viciously combatted within the Church. I discovered a French mystic through Sr Emmanuelle last year whose messages never got broadly distributed but who was supported by several priests. She was shown in 1930 that the Vatican was infested with Masons and she saw the Body of Christ filled with "mixture" - that is, people who are not 100% with God but partly in the world. And that was almost 100 years ago!

    It seems that it's very hard for a sick body to hear and accept the diagnosis of grave illness.

    We have to trust that God is cleaning house and pray for the souls of the consecrated to repent, humble themselves and for those who are truly with Him, to suffer and repair in union with Him.

    I think the same way as Mirjana about the Pope and clergy. He is Christ's Vicar and he is doing Christ's will even if we can't understand it.

    "I believe, with all my heart, that holy spirit always gives us a pope we need. When we needed a pope like John Paul II, it was him. When we needed a pope like Benedict XVI, it was him. Now we need Pope Francis, and that’s him. We must pray to help him. We are used to commenting everything, because we think we know everything. But we don’t know anything!”
     
  13. Michael Pio

    Michael Pio Archangels

    Mirjana of Medjugorje says we need Pope Francis because the Holy Spirit gives us the Pope we need, and that is Francis at the moment, the Pope we need, according to the Holy Spirit?
     
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  14. Clare A

    Clare A Archangels

    Earlier in this pontificate, when confusion was starting up, a friend of mine wrote on Facebook "I'm sitting this one out". I have felt the same for a long time now. As a laywoman and a sinner, a lot of things are above my paygrade, and until a higher authority tells us, we must accept that Francis is a valid pope. That doesn't mean I have to be enthusiastic about what he does and says. Much of the time I feel dismay - the Pachamama incident being the most unsettling, since it broke the first commandment and so flagrantly, over the very bones of St Peter. My response has been not to think much about our current pontiff and continue in my Catholic life as I always have.

    Reaction to the new Motu Proprio (even its title seems intended to insult and wound: what 'custodian' would be so intent on destroying what they are supposed to protect?) has been swift. One source said to just ignore the MP and carry on as usual. I don't know if this will be possible, since liberal bishops don't have very liberal tendencies when demanding obedience. I attend my local parish church which doesn't offer any Masses in Latin, either the NO or the TLM so I really don't have any personal stake in this. However my father was greatly comforted by being able to attend a Tridentine Mass in the years up to his death. What was so wrong in that? How can anything that was considered so sacred now be anathema?

    So now it's not just 'Cardinal against Cardinal' but Pope against Pope.

    Not good.
     
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  15. AED

    AED Powers

    My sometime confessor--when I can get to his monastery--told me very clearly that God is permitting this as part of the purification of the Church. He is a very old and very holy priest well seasoned in spiritual warfare. It is bitter medicine but like the people of Israel the Catholic Church has strayed from Christ. I don't know about the mystic you mention but Pere Lame at the beginning of the 20th century was shown the seminaries by the Blessed Mother and he was appalled and shaken. This had been an ongoing assault by the enemy and his minions. St Pius X saw the seeping in of modernism and fought hard to contain it. He fretted about what would come after his pontificate. Pope Leo was given that frightening vision of the Church and what was to lie ahead. I think our generation and our parents and grandparents have bit by bit incrementally become very comfortable with the world. I know I have even as I practice the Faith very seriously. My parents were devout Catholics but I suspect they made their compromises. And on back it goes. "The good life" here in America is not the Good Life of the gospels. I expect Europe is similar. Purification is ongoing and probably will intensify. From within the Church now even as outside forces increase in malice. God help us! (I believe and know He will)
     
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  16. AED

    AED Powers

    You hit the nail on the head Clare.
     
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  17. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    So much sense in a lot of these posts.

    So much truth.

    Thanks to all for powerful reflections.

    We are living through a great spiritual chastisement. But reform must start with me in my heart and in my prayer life.

    The Rosary is the weapon.
     
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  18. andree

    andree Powers

    The name of the mystic is Filiola, she is a forgotten mystic. She saw the appalling condition of the Church in the hearts of its members and suffered tremendously as a result. But she also saw how God was going to renew His Bride through purification and how a great period awaited her when she would be the Light of the world again. And Pere Lamy saw the same things decades before Filiola did, so the problems go way back.

    I agree with you about the compromises that have crept into the Church. As you say the good life of materialism has weakened the faith and made us think that the world can give us all the comfort and help we need.

    Yes, there are problems in the convents for sure. Several years ago I heard Mgr John Esseff, who was Mother Teresa's spiritual director at one time, recount a story about how the superiors in Mother Teresa's orders were not respecting the orders to live by trust on God's providence for the supply of food. They were supposed to give everything to the poor, and pray and trust that God would provide for them, but they often didn't do this and would store the food. When she visited the missions, Mother Teresa would inspect the kitchens and when she found hidden food, would order that it be given away. Mgr Esseff told a story about how she lead the nuns into prayer for a few days - then the UN trucks showed up unexpectedly and delivered massive amounts of food to the mission. When Mother Teresa died, a friend of mine told me that she knew several nuns from that order who openly said the order would be much better off without their founder. :cry:

    So there is rebellion in the ranks which doesn't show up in photos and news articles.

    Only God knows where there is need for deep cleaning before the new springtime . My guess is that this approach is the last straw and not His preferred method, but then His people didn't do the spring cleaning when asked to do it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  19. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

    Yes AED….I believed your confessor was correct…and I agree with your entire post. It is where we’re are now in church history. Our hope…..The gates of hell will not prevail….ever. The judgement on those who do evil and are unrepentant will not go without justice. If we who know our faith remain faithful, we need to trust that God is always in control and not the Vatican or any pope. They serve at His will….and yes, just like we get the government we deserve, we get the pope that we deserve. God is and always will be in control regardless of what those who hold the reigns of “ power” may think.
    God wins and justice will be served.
     
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  20. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie


    “But reform must start with me in my heart and in my prayer life.”…..thank you for the reminder that I need to up my game.
     

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