Message May 25th, 2009

Discussion in 'Marian Apparitions' started by Lee, May 25, 2009.

  1. Lee

    Lee Principalities

    Message of May 25, 2009

    “Dear children! In this time, I call you all to pray for the coming of the Holy Spirit upon every baptized creature, so that the Holy Spirit may renew you all and lead you on the way of witnessing your faith – you and all those who are far from God and His love. I am with you and intercede for you before the Most High. Thank you for having responded to my call.”
     
  2. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Here I am, Lord!

    Lee,

    I'll take my cue from you:

    If you want something you never had, you must be willing to do something you have never done.

    How we all need the Holy Spirit! Two lessons I learned while in the Charismatic Renewal: God moved where there was expectant faith for him to work and the Holy Spirit looks for not thrill-seekers, but obedient hearts willing to act. I have too often limited God's work in and through me by my little faith! :(

    Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
     
  3. Lee

    Lee Principalities

    Mario, what a beautiful nugget of truth, thank you.

    The part that grabs me in Our Lady's message is "I call you all to pray for the coming of the Holy spirit upon every baptized creature,". Wow, that opens so many door ways in my mind. God is already at work, all we have to do is fan the flames with prayer. The trick for me is to hold on to that and believe it, especially when I see evidence to the contrary.

    I send the Messages to my sons and my husband via email because I know they will read them even though they don't want to talk about it or really acknowledge it in any way. Often they tell me not to send them God things, I do anyway. But this time was different. My recent graduate wrote back and thanked me for continuing to usher in the presence of God in his life.
    See "Oh me of little faith!" Perhaps if you throw enough spaghetti on the wall, some of it finally sticks.
     
  4. CRW

    CRW New Member

    This is a message that leaves some increasing doubt in my mind concerning the messages. I clarify by saying that I would consider that our Mother would refer to God's children as not creatures (especially the baptized) and that she would pray that the Holy Spirit would come to all or at least pray for those who have not been baptized.

    Cecil
     
  5. darrell

    darrell New Member

    Cecil, Read the message again. As for calling us creatures, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, 337-354.

    I'm not sure, but I don't know if the Holy Spirit would be poured out on those who have not heard the Gospel. In Acts 10: 44-49, the Holy Spirit came upon those listening to Peter speak -- a Baptism of Spirit before the Baptism with water. If we look at this message, Our Lady asks us to pray for the coming of the Spirit (second Pentecost) so that He may lead us "on the way of witnessing your faith." In the first Pentecost, the Spirit did not come upon all, but on the disciples gathered together waiting and praying as Jesus instructed. Then they went out and preached the Gospel.

    I think this is what Our Lady is asking us to pray for the coming of the Holy Spirit so that the He may renew us and lead us on the way of witnessing our faith. After all, the Church teaches that this work is the sacred duty of all the baptized.

    I do believe the messages from Our Lady of Medjugorje are authentic.
    http://darrellbowles-climbingthemountai ... 13960.html
    However, either way, we all of us here have been Baptized and Confirmed, and we should be using the gifts we've been given to spread the Kingdom of God. It's our duty. :)

    Darrell
     
  6. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    There have been continuous problems with translation and accuracy
    over the years in Medjugorge so we need to take that into account.

    I read the messages prayerfully and they are pregnant with theological
    depth and purpose. Our Mother has been teaching us in these messages
    but how many have genuinely responded?

    If we listen with our hearts the messages are from a mother. Those who
    reject Medjugorge are missing out on so much good spiritual teaching.

    As to the authenticity of Medjugorge. There are only two possible
    explanations.
    1. They are authentic and our Lady is appearing and the power of the Holy
    Spirit is upon these events.
    2. The are a deception and the source of the deception can only be satanic.

    Jesus said we can judge a tree by its fruit. The fruit of Medjugorge has been
    an increase in fasting, prayer and Marian piety and devotion, and a great
    return to the sacrament of confession/reconciliation. Many have had
    conversion experiences and returned to the Church. The lukewarm and
    indifferent have been inspired to live the gospel to the full.

    I have not been to Medjugorge [hope to go this Summer] but I have spoken
    to many who have gone. They are consistent in their testimonies that the grace
    of God is there.
     
  7. CRW

    CRW New Member

    I surely respect all who do visit and I believe that positive can result from negative. Just as many have gained from the false predictions at Catholic Planet for the warning this year. Within days, everyone is on board for next year, don't be late for your ticket. Don't plan a trip from New York in fear of an A bomb. All may happen one day and it will be said I told you so. If you remove enough members from the forum, recruit new members, while restricting objections, you got a winning forum.

    I do pray to our Mother asking advice concerning all the above. I read so many books and all the messages. I discovered that I could, within a little while, construct my own messages that would be blessed by any Church doctrine review. I am not saying that this is the case, I am only human with an opinion. I put my trust in holy scriptures and try my best to live what I know the Church has approved. I would think if our Blessed Mother would vist ten children dailiy, monthly, annually for so many years, the effects of their personnal life would be somewhat different. The latest message is a perfect example. I would bet anything before its release that it would have the Holy Spirit as the focal point - why would one think that - Pentecost Sunday, Yes the CCC may refer to us as God's creatures; however, I don't think Our Blessed Mother or any mother would say I love you my dear little creature, listen to me.

    I am not trying to take a negative side or insult anyone who believes that the ten are 100 percent faithful to the truth. Reserved humility is missing as I see it.

    Cecil
     
  8. darrell

    darrell New Member

    Hi Cecil,

    I certainly respect your opinion.

    When you consider the miraculous healings, the countless conversions of faith, and the strengthenings of faith, if Medjugorje is of Satan, then he has made the most monumental blunder in the history of the world.

    This is a valid point – almost always the messages from Medjugorje simply reiterate the teaching of the Church: pray, repent, convert, pray the Rosary, go to confession, go to mass, visit Jesus in the Most Blessed Sacrament, make God the center of our lives, etc…

    However, I think if the world were listening to the teaching of Christ’s Church on earth, Jesus wouldn’t have needed to send His Mother…

    I’m not sure what you see negative about Medjugorje?

    In what way? From what I can see, the visionaries are faithful, devout Catholics who lead prayerful lives. No they’re not perfect – they are sinners like the rest of us…
    Again, in what way? I met Mirjana, and she was very down to earth and humble.

    Is it he length of time the alledged apparitions have been ongoing?
    The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard "delay," but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

    Like I said, I do respect your opinion, and I won’t debate you as whether any of us believe in any private revelation is not a requirement of our faith. It’s certainly NOT central to my faith. I am curious as to what you find so negative. If you don’t care to elaborate on the above, that’s fine.

    I’ll close with one thought and then say nothing more about it. The peace and grace I personally experienced in Medjugorje was incredible. I came away thinking this is how the whole world is supposed to be. If the entire world were living their faith the way it’s lived in Medjugorje, well, the world would be a much, much better place…

    Peace be with you,
    Darrell
     
  9. CRW

    CRW New Member

    Darrell,

    I do respect all that believe and from that belief, I believe that good has come. I think it is the commitment ones makes during the trip, maybe the influence of all the believers, and Love of Christ that can bring this about.

    I would offer that healing, strengthening of faith, conversions, and maybe saints were born in parishes that housed priest and religious that were and possibly still are part of the sexual abuse scandal. Satan, we know without doubt, is alive. I cannot and will not judge them as sinful, deceptive, or fake. I personally just have a hunch that what I see is not what I want it to be.

    BTW, I get the same feeling each time I receive the precious Body and Blood of Christ, without the roadtrip. I do believe that Christ sends His mother daily to all who offer up the heart. She is our Mother regardless of location and sins.

    Cecil
     
  10. padraig

    padraig New Member

    cecil

    I was praying tonight about your posts tonight and I got this message back, that your concern was not so much for yourself but for a very good priest friend of yourself who has deep reservations and concerns..as indeed did my own mother and father had, about Medugorje,

    as a small comment in prayer it was pointed out to me that the Good Father himself, who is concerned, was hurt, himself one time when he was young, in his foot, and I was shown Mary holding him in her arms and healing him.

    I know sign for sign is not good, Its could be like domino's falling. but I hope this helps.

    He himself is a very holy man, who loves the rosary, with a very special chilld like quality about him.... I see him as an infant, his mother and one particular aunt were very holy......... these are signs..................but wrong about medugorje
     
  11. CRW

    CRW New Member

    Padraig,

    I thank you for your prayers and will pray on it for I do not know a priest, young or old that has expressed an opinion one way or the other. My spiritual director, my best friend, who is 88 in August, I would say favors the children. I have prayed to our Mother for guidance and numbs the word, on the contrary, after prayer on the subject my feelings have grown in the wrong direction.

    I pray with all my heart that it is true and that the blessings continue for all - believers and unbelievers.

    I just read this night John Chapter 5:

    We know that no one begotten of God commits sin; rather, God protects the one begotten by him, and so the evil one cannot touch him. We know that we belong to God, while the whole world is under the evil one. We know too, that the Son of God has come and has given us discernment to recognize the One who is true. Just before this, John says that we should pray for sinners unless their sins are deadly? I would think that those in deadly sin need prayers the most. I quote John here because I think that our Mother would be restricted to visiting only those who did not commit deadly sin or mortal sin as taught by our church. It is possible that the 10 have lived a most chaste and sinless life.

    Please pray to Our Mother that she will let me know.

    Cecil
     
  12. Mario

    Mario Powers

    CRW,

    I will pray for your discernment. I'd like to mention that God has used what I would call three movements of grace to help form me in my Catholic life: the Charismatic Movement, Medjogorje, and the Regnum Christi Movement. Each in their own way have experienced testing, with the last undergoing great challenges at the present time. But I'm extremely thankful for all three because in each I have personally seen authentic fruit. It is for God's glory that we have been created and it is fruitfulness that best glorifies Him:

    Jn 15 He who abides in me and I in him, he it is who bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing...By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove that you are my disciples.

    When my young family visited Medjugorje in 1987 we were impressed by so much: local families that would rise early in the morning to pray together, local youth that would spontaneously prostrate before the Monstrance during adoration, our hostess who went out of her way to see to our needs at midday, hundreds going to confession, a taxi cab driver who gave us a free ride to Church so we could arrive on time for Holy Mass, another taxi cab driver who sought me out the day after giving us a ride in order to return a pair of gloves I had left behind...There was an aura in the valley that exuded joy and generosity; it has left a permanent impression in my mind.

    While we were there every other member of our tour group, apart from my family, experienced the miracle of the sun. But we received a far greater grace since returning to the States that twenty-one years ago: the grace of daily family prayer. Truly, I could not have asked for more! I hope I don't insult either Our Lady or the visionaries, but it is the lived messages that have impacted me more than any written words could. As Paul said to the Corinthians:

    2Cor 3:3 You show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on the tablets of human hearts!

    It is wonderful that the Lord has chosen more immediate aids for your conversion. In fact, your heart open to God, is a source of great encouragement to me. May the Lord raise up more fruitbearers like yourself, for His glory and honor. :D

    Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
     
  13. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Cecil, you are on the right road asking our Blessed Mother for the grace
    of discernment and right judgement. She is all grace herself and will never
    fail you.

    Flee to her maternal protection, implore her help, seek her intercession for you are
    a special child of the Madonna.

    I feel like adding here as I write about Mary, most pure, Mother of God that I
    owe all to her for I was on the road to perdition but she won a most perfect grace of
    conversion for me. May God grant me the grace to love her more for in loving her
    more I honour her Son, Jesus Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Prince of
    Everlasting Peace.

    Ave Maria, Gracia Plena, Dominus Tecum
     
  14. Rain

    Rain Powers

    Hmm . . . I don't think I agree with this one. Mary visits sinners even when they can't see her. I was in mortal sin when she interceded in my life. I'm not sure about the state of Padraig's mortal soul when she visited him in prison, but the way he describes himself, he sounds like he was in a bad way at the time, spiritually speaking. Also, it was Mary who took the children of Fatima to hell, so if she isn't restricted from going to the place of the damned, I don't think sinners are off limits to her.

    But, I'm totally with you on having doubts about Medjugorje. I follow it in a casual way, not dismissing it, but not embracing it either. People are attracted to Mary at Medjugorje, but she's supposed to lead them away from herself and Medjugorie, to Christ Himself. This is why I feel there's no reason for Catholics to try to push faithful Catholics into accepting Medjugorje is a true apparition of Mary. And I'd also shy away from pushing those who are already outside the faith or struggling to accept the messages. If their faith is shaky, the last thing they need to do is build a foundation on an unapproved apparition. If down the road the Church declares it false, they might be devastated.

    While I think the apparition is worthy of discussion, I don't think anyone should worry themselves over not believing it. Nor should others pressure them into accepting it as genuine as if their faith in Christ is weak if they don't.
     
  15. Seán

    Seán New Member

    The best thing about claimed apparition sites is that we don't have to believe in them if we do not want to, or cannot for some reason.

    Speaking personally, I believe Medjugorje to be true, because so many graces have been given to souls around the world from there. The apparitions, even almost thirty years after its beginning, still stand the test of time and are all theologically sound. But of course it's faith that is needed for belief, not reason alone.

    Sean
     
  16. padraig

    padraig New Member

    As far as I know Catholics are not even bound to believe in even in Church approved apparitions, even the great one's such as The Sacred Heart, Fatima and Lourdes or Divine Mercy.

    The Church simply says they are 'worthy of belief, not the same thing as 'have to believe' and I suppose many Catholics do fine such things a turn off and so don't believe.

    As far as new apparition sites and locutions go, I like to have a three strike rule, like baseball. So I don't look to one single mistake but instead look for a general pattern of putting their foot in it. Its the same as listening to a singer, the fact he hits a wrong note now and again doesn't necessarily mean we reach for the switch off button. However if he keeps hitting howlers its time to reach for your jacket.

    Read any of the great mystics and you'll find them putting their foot in it now and again, its par for the course. No more would we expect doctors, lawyers or dentists or whoever to have a 100% correct score all the time.

    I suspect Cecil is strong minded enough to believe or not believe ,all arguments to the contrary. My own father and mother never believed in Medugorje and you could talk yourself hoarse without changing their views and iota. Still its been fun trying. :wink:

    http://www.medjugorje.org/weiblep.htm

    Catechism of the Catholic Church:

    66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ." Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

    67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called "private" revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

    Christian faith cannot accept "revelations" that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such "revelations."


    Still as Cecil says if they lead to the feet of Jesus what harm? Often much good.

    I always liked the Declaration of Pope Urban on the subject:

    In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not to believe, for, if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe, and it should be proven false, you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because you believed it to be true."(Pope Urban VIII, 1623-44)

    Also:

    Although an assent of Catholic faith may not and can not be given to revelations thus approved, still, an assent of human faith, made according to the rules of prudence is due them; for, according to these rules such revelations are probable and worthy of pious credence." (Pope Benedict XIV, 1675-1758, De Serv. Dei Beatif.)
     

    Attached Files:

  17. CRW

    CRW New Member

    I agree that Our Mother does intercedes in the life of sinners. Hence my statement that those in deadly sin need prayers the most. John chapter 5 however, sheds a different light on the subject. Fatima was a truly different case - the most holy children that our Mother entrusted secrets, two die almost immediately and one became a religious without additional secrets. Christ said to enter heaven you must become like the little children. It is most difficult for adults to live their life without deadly sin. Now multiply that by ten, the influence of money, a jet set life style, speaking engagements, etc., life becomes most difficult.

    I do apologize to Lee for jumping on his thread concerning the latest message. I should had opened anther thread; SORRY Lee.

    Cecil
     
  18. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Our lady at Fatima said that Francisco would have to say many
    rosaries before he could enter heaven so he was not perfect or
    holy but given the grace to become holy through prayer.

    As for Medjugorje there is a lot of propaganda against the seers
    and the apparitions so it would be easy to find negative criticisms
    being propagated that are false.
     
  19. Lee

    Lee Principalities

    No, no, Cecil, it keeps us all together this way. No need for an apology.
     

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