Medjugorje - true or false

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by garabandal, Oct 26, 2012.

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  1. bona fide

    bona fide Angels

    A different perspective from another exorcist...

    From the files: Bishop and exorcist Andrea Gemma on Medjugorje: "Absolutely diabolical"

    Here's a background item on the Medjugorje case, a May 2008 interview with Bishop Andrea Gemma from Gianluca Barile's website Petrus. It was reported in the press at the time, and some quotations did appear, but I never came across the full text until recently.
    Medjugorje: the accusation of the bishop-exorcist Mons. Gemma: "The apparitions of the Madonna? Completely false: the seers lie under the inspiration of Satan to profit economically"
    by Gianluca Barile
    VATICAN CITY - A mixture of economic and diabolical interests, with the alleged seers and their collaborators directly involved in profits related to the increased flow of pilgrimages and visits in the area, and the Evil One well content to sow discord between the faithful most convinced of the validity of the apparitions of Medjugorje and the Church, sceptical as ever in the face of what she has declared more than once, through the words of two successive bishops of Mostar during that time, "a great deception". Monsignor Andrea Gemma, former bishop of Isernia-Venafro [served 1990-2006], among the greatest exorcists living, does not mince his words: instead of the Virgin, so far only rivers of money have appeared at Medjugorje, a grave accusation that sums up not only the courage but also the moral and spiritual capacity of the prelate who agreed to respond to questions from "Petrus" on such a prickly event.
    So, Excellency, how do you define Medjugorje?
    "It is an absolutely diabolical event, around which numerous underworld interests revolve. The Holy Church, which alone can make a pronouncement, through the words of the Bishop of Mostar, has already said publicly and officially that the Madonna never appeared in Medjugorje and that this whole production is the work of the Devil."
    You speak of "underworld interests". Of what kind?
    "I'm referring to 'the Devil's dung', to money, what else? At Medjugorje everything happens for the sake of money: pilgrimages, overnight stays, the sales of trinkets. In this way, abusing the good faith of the poor people who go there with the idea of meeting the Madonna, the false seers have set themselves up financially, they have married and live a wealthy life, to say the least. Just think: one of them, directly from America, with a direct economic profit, organizes tens of pilgrimages every year. These people don't seem to be really disinterested persons to me. Rather, with all the people vulnerable to this noisy swindle, they evidently have a great material interest in getting people to believe that they see and speak with the Virgin Mary."
    Monsignor Gemma, is there no appeal from your verdict?
    "Could it be otherwise? These people claim to be in contact with the Madonna, but in reality are inspired solely and exclusively by Satan, are creating chaos and confusion among the faithful for the sake of absolutely deplorable interests and advantages. Think, then, of the disobedience they have fed in the bosom of the Church: their spiritual guide, a Franciscan friar expelled from the Order and suspended a divinis, continues to invalidly administer the sacraments. [NB: The interview took place in 2008, before the laicization of Tomislav Vlasic.] And numerous priests from all over the world, despite the express prohibition of the Holy See, continue to organize and participate in pilgrimages with Medjugorje as their destination. It's a shame! This is why I speak of a mixture between personal and diabolical interests: the false seers and their helpers are pocketing money, and the Devil creates discord between the faithful and the Church; the more fanatical faithful, in fact, aren't listening to the Church, which - I repeat - has, from the beginning, warned about the mendacity of the Medjugorje apparitions."
    And if the alleged seers were really seeing the Madonna?
    "In reality they would be seeing Satan under false pretenses. Because Satan has great interest in splitting the Church, setting the two currents of the 'pro' and the 'contra' Medjugorje against each other. Moreover, it wouldn't be the first time: St. Paul himself asserts that the Devil can appear as an Angel of Light and can, so to speak, camouflage himself. He did that, for example, with St. Gemma Galgani. But beyond his disguises, the Evil One has already intervened and I can assure you that it is he inspiring the false seers since the beginning with the promise of easy money."
    You're not exactly fond of those seers...
    "Please! It's enough to see how they act: they're disobedient to the Church, they should have withdrawn to private life and instead they keep on making propaganda for their lies, for the sake of money, and thus playing the Devil's game! My thoughts go immediately to St. Bernadette, the seer of Lourdes: that sweet creature wanted to shed her life and took up the habit of a Sister to serve the Lord. Instead, the impostors of Medjugorje continue to live comfortably in the world without showing any kind of love either for God or for the Church."
    The supporters of Medjugorje emphasize that the Holy See has never expressed any position on the matter.
    "That's another lie! As I pointed out before, the Vatican has forbidden pilgrimages by priests to the place and has spoken through the words of the two successive bishops of Mostar, Monsignors Zanic and Peric, with whom I have spoken personally, and who have always manifested their doubts to me. You see, even for Fatima and Lourdes, the Holy See didn't express any position directly on those Marian apparitions. So why would they have to make an exception in this case? The truth is that when the Bishop of Mostar speaks, the Church of Christ speaks, and is it to him, who speaks with the authority conferred to him by the Vatican, that we need to listen. Thus, the Holy See has already expressed itself with the words of the Bishop of Mostar, making evident that Medjugorje is a diabolical trick. But I will share a secret with you. You'll see that soon the Vatican will intervene with something explosive, to unmask once and for all who is behind this swindle."
    The same supporters note that at Medjugorje every year they report a record of conversions and miracles...
    "It's artificial. And who is counting all these conversions? You see, if someone has a conversion, it's because he had a certain predisposition, because he thinks to look inside himself, because he receives the gift of the Spirit. The place in which this conversion happens is completely relative. Let's think of St. Paul: he converted on the road, and now what should we do, all go out to the road and wait to be converted? As regards the miracles, I'll tell a personal anecdote. I owe the miraculous healing of a person in my family to the intercession of Our Lady of the Rosary at Pompei, but that doesn't imply that the Madonna ever appeared to me at Pompei. So, just from believing, or from being healed inside or outside, it doesn't necessarily mean that Mary is letting people see her."
    To the best of your knowledge, what opinion does the Holy Father Benedict XVI have of Medjugorje?
    "I'll limit myself to underscore what he did as Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, to send out official notes adverse to Medjugorje, such as the one which forbade priests and religious from going on pilgrimages in that country. Do you ..."
    Yet it is said that John Paul II was convinced of the goodness of the apparitions.
    "An unproven legend, considering that his opinions were personal and did not in any way represent an act of the Magisterium."
  2. Aviso

    Aviso Guest

    You are right to beleive in Garabandal and please do not link it to Medjugorje, I understand your position and respect your faith about Medjugorje but it's not possible to use one of our greatest seer Sister Lucia to confirm the authenticity of Medjugorje, if it's was the case I'll knew it myself so we must be aware, you must understand that before to confirm the hoax of Medjugorje, I had myself checked all the possibilities, why should I go against our Holy Mother, as I said she saved me, why I should deny her words, unimaginable, the reality will be knew in 2013, mystery but I am not worry for most of you, as you already said, if the Commission deny the authenticity of Medjugorje you will respect the decision and I will do the same if they confirm the authenticity, so let's talk about something else, the more important currently are the sign of times.

    PS : now if I read again an other false rumor, I'll be pleased to give back my opinion but always with evidences, in doubt I am quiet.

    October 25, 2012 Message to Marija
    "Dear children! Today I call you to pray for my intentions. Renew fasting and prayer because Satan is cunning and attracts many hearts to sin and perdition. I call you, little children, to holiness and to live in grace. Adore my Son so that He may fill you with His peace and love for which you yearn. Thank you for having responded to my call."

  3. Mary's child

    Mary's child Guest

    Aviso. do you think that we will indeed have a bad pope, or do you think this will be the government/one world order sitting itself on the throne of Peter?

    This is a genuine question, I am actually really interested in hearing your views and the understanding of others. :)
  4. jose

    jose Angels

    The Medjugorje Seers and an Unescapable “Conflict of Interests”

    by Marco Corvaglia

    It is quite clear that in the absence of a recognition by the Church, if the "apparitions" and the messages ended, it would lead to a gradual decline in interest in Medjugorje.
    This concept seemed somehow clear to Vicka by 1983 when, for the interview-book of Father Janko Bubalo, she stated:

    VICKA: Think about it: how would all this seem if the Virgin had appeared only ten or twenty times, and then disappeared. Why, in the hustle and bustle it would have been forgotten by now.
    [Janko Bubalo, A Thousand Encounters with the Blessed Virgin Mary in Medjugorje. The Seer Vicka Speaks of Her Experiences, Friends of Medjugorje, Chicago, 1987, p. 187]​

    In 1991, the then "official" historian of Medjugorje and a great advocate of these apparitions, Father René Laurentin, speaking of the "spiritual risks" that the seers had to deal with, stated that Marija "had gone from the poorest family among all the visionaries to a condition of wealth that led her to a very different culture and to an easy and brilliant life" ["Eco di Medjugorje", No 84, July 1991, p. 6] and Ivan "has begun to like playboy clothing and has developed an exaggerated care for his own person" [ibid.].

    In 1994, Father René Laurentin wrote:

    Ivan now owns a beautiful new house, which will allow him earn a living by hosting pilgrims. This is already the source of income for Mirjana, Ivanka, Vicka and soon Jakov.
    [René Laurentin, Dernières Nouvelles de Medjugorje, No 13, O.E.I.L., Paris, 1994, p. 24]​

    Well, here is the problem: if the apparitions ceased, the visionaries (and many of their relatives) would find themselves deprived of the current sources of income, which support their families. Actually, like many people there, they own guesthouses, in which they accommodate pilgrims.

    On 16 June 2011, Italian TV (Rai News, L'Inchiesta - I misteri di Medjugorje) made known what follows:

    Given the large flux of pilgrims, Mirjana has recently expanded her hotel with a new wing.​

    The new wing built by Mirjana, mentioned in the Rai News report, is a Class A guesthouse, which opened in the spring of 2011, and offers double and triple accomodations. Its name is Mirjana i Marko (ie, "Mirjana and Marko", after the name of the visionary and of her husband, Marko Soldo) and is located between Mirjana’s house and the one of the visionary Ivan's parents.
    Through this page people can book a stay in the new Mirjana’s guesthouse.
    On 18 August 2010, the BBC, during the program Newsnight, broadcasted an interview with Ivan Dragičević in Medjugorje. Here are two short fragments of the report:

    If it is true that the visionaries have to eat, it is equally true that – whether they like it or not – they are, in fact, inextricably in a "conflict of interest."

    The entrance to the residence of Marija Pavlović-Lunetti, in Bijakovići

    In 2010, Marija Pavlović, who divides her time between Italy and Herzegovina, founded the Antares Association (reg. R-1003/10 of the Cantonal Ministry of Justice), with the aim of collecting, among the devotees of Medjugorje, funds for contributing to the construction of a center named "Magnificat" (for donations, also a bank account, titled “Antares Association”, has been opened at Banca Prossima, agency of Milan, Paolo Ferrari Square, 10 [IBAN IT42Q0335901600100000015985]).

    The "Magnificat" is being built on the land owned by Marija Pavlović, in back of her house in Bijakovići (the opening is scheduled for September 2012).
    It is presented as follows by the Italian newspaper L'Arena, in an article that advertises a meeting of Marija with the faithful:

    With the support of trusted persons Marija founded the Antares association, recognized by the local government, through which she intends to support the building of the center of hospitality and spirituality. It was conceived as a large conference room, chapel and rooms for seminars, courses and retreats, and accommodation for up to 120 people, with a staff dedicated to the practical needs and the assistance of the pilgrims.
    [Arriva la veggente di Medjugorje, by V. Zambaldo, "L’Arena", 21 August 2011]​

    All this led the Diocese of Alessandria, in the person of the Bishop Msgr. Giuseppe Versaldi (now Cardinal), to issue, on 16 June 2011, a Clarification on Medjugorje by Msgr. Versaldi:

    As also in the Diocese of Alessandria some faithful and faith groups are involved in the events that have happened in Medjugorje since 1981, and go on pilgrimages there and meet here to practice their devotion to Mary and since recently in these meetings there is an alleged seer [...] I [also] ask the priests to not allow, during celebrations within our churches, offerings to be given to private persons (even if they are alleged seers), intended for private works, in order to avoid exploitation and suspicion.
    [La Chiesa e Medjugorje. Precisazioni del Vescovo, "La voce alessandrina. Settimanale di informazione e opinione della Diocesi di Alessandria", No 23, 17 June 2011, p. 12]​
    Marco Corvaglia
    Updated on 24 March 2012
  5. Patty78

    Patty78 Angels

    Hi Aviso,

    I think most of us cannot be absolutely certain in regards to the supernatural, at least not until we cross the line between life and death, that´s why we have to rely on the church to guide us, by this I mean to put our trust in the Holy Pope.

    Yes, evil is everywhere and our church is not the exemption, the smoke of satan has been present since the time of the Gospel, just look at Judas who heard Jesus day and night and could not resist to temptation, we have many Judas on these days, I am one when I succumb to temptation, I betray Jesus when I don’t love the neighbor.

    However I feel like the next Pope will be even holier, I believe we are living in the last times, and the devil already has plans to defeat the Pope and the next Pope, but it is not going to happen.

    You´re right about not talking about this anymore, as long as we have faith in God and work hard to run the race for Jesus with the help of our mother we should be fine and ready to give everything for Christ.

    Jesus said to Saint Faustina that “Even the devils glorify my justice but do not believe in my goodness”

    This world needs to know how much God loves them, let´s pray together for unity and for love so we may say a humble prayer to God for the ones who do not know God.

  6. padraig

    padraig New Member

    As I mentioned on the announcemetns thred. I'm closing down debate till after Christmas to give it a rest. Folks have been complaining its kinda throwing the forum off focus.
  7. padraig

    padraig New Member

    As I mentioned in the Announcements section I am closig down the Medugorje is it true/ false thig til lafter Christmas. Their have been complaints it is kinda dominating the forum too much.

    So lets all give it a rest till then.
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