May 14 Pope calls all faiths together to pray

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by Child of God, May 8, 2020.

  1. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    I hope, and pray that you are correct DeGaulle. The MSM will of course spin everything as nationalism reawoken but I think that much of this is simply hyperbole. Time will tell.
     
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  2. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Ezdra,

    You very often are sensible and on the mark in what you share, but then sometimes throw in a statement that is far off the mark. I am puzzled by this. For example, in the above you rightly point out that sins of the mind and heart (ex. pride) seem to be given less attention. Yes, in a certain sense, pride, by which satan fell, is the worst of all. But then you state out-of-the-blue:

    ...let it be known that some sins in the lists are no more mortal ones since the time of St. John Paul II. Yes I mean masturbation.

    Yet the very Catechism which was promulgated by John Paul II states in paragraph 2352:

    2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action." "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."

    This means objectively speaking that every act of masturbation is grave and mortal. Of course, any mortal sin can be mitigated if one of the other two factors are not present: knowledge that the sin is mortal and full consent. But the truth of paragraph 2352 has never been rescinded.

    You went on to say:

    Or we want to wash our hands, after we didn't do our own homework both at home and in parishes in first place?


    Please be careful. I would cringe if you were to present your miscue to an audience of teenagers.

    Safe in the Barque of Peter!
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
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  3. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Another interesting fact of this day May 14th in 1948 Truman officially recognized the state of Israel on behalf of America.
     
  4. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Apart from your error in stating that masturbation is no longer a mortal sin, I cannot understand how you can tolerate that bishops of the Church can even contemplate bringing these matters up for public discussion. They should not even discuss them in private. These are moral doctrines, examples of absolute truths. What is a sin today cannot be declared not a sin tomorrow. This is simply relativism. You grant far too broad an interpretation of Christ's statement that 'what you loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven, what you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven.' Your interpretation implies that Jesus Christ gave licence to the Apostles and their successors to be the arbiters of morality above Himself. He most certainly did not do so. He had already firmly and uncompromisingly laid out the Law for them, correcting even Moses. This statement was the founding of the Sacrament of Confession, granting the authority to priests to either grant absolution for sins confessed, or not.

    These German bishops proposing masturbation, serial adultery and sodomy are completely upending Christ's own teaching and that repeated by His Church without question until the apostasy began in the sixties. If you consider that these sins are mutable, then nothing in our Faith is immutable and the only conclusion is we might as well pack it all in, as none of it could be true.

    It's not as if we haven't been warned. These heresies have been introduced in the Anglican Church and other liberal Protestant ones. These churches are rapidly heading towards complete irrelevancy and eventual extinction. The people abandoning them in droves show themselves quite perceptive. There is no point in following religions that cannot be true. Atheism for them would be more honest, but even Mohammedanism would be better for those who still believe in a God. The imams still believe in their religion and despite the error of a belief in a god who can change his mind, still hold fast to their laws.

    It's simple badness and defiance to persist in calling for priestesses. John Paul II condemned it unequivocally and authoritatively. It was beyond his pay-grade. How can it not be for Pope Francis or the aptly named aspirant Marx? Are these boyos superior or better evolved or what? If Christ approved of priestesses, He'd have appointed them. They were two-a-penny among the pagans, then. He can hardly be accused of being afraid of doing so-He couldn't have had a worse end, could He? The Truth is that He couldn't, as only a man can represent Christ as the Groom of His Bride, The Church. Not even God can contradict His own Being.

    Finally, can you please tell us what sins have stopped being sins over the centuries? I can only think of certain forms of usury, but that only changed because the nature of lending changed-the issue is extremely complex and nuanced and still generates heated argument, without definite conclusions and, as we know, there can be no mortal sin where there is doubt in the sinful matter itself. That being said, there is no doubt in the grave matter pertaining to adultery, masturbation or sodomy. And you're right that there's no doubt about the tendency, and not just in the US, to idolise money-that's a breach of the very first commandment. However, if the bishops can decide it is alright to masturbate, this implies the authority to decide it is alright to worship money.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
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  5. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Some sins are against natural law. They can’t be changed. Masturbation is in that category.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
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  6. Ezdra

    Ezdra Angels

    Seems I will have to answer one more time before retiring in expectation of the prayer on May 14. This post is not only answer of the above.

    First of all, I want to thank all posters who responded reasonably to my arguments, and even agreed partially with some of them. Of course, no one is 100% correct or 100% wrong, and I do not make any exception.

    So the masturbation becomes the main issue? Then let read what is the entire paragraph 2352 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The missed part from the above quotation is:
    "To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability."

    It is clear that not everyone is married at 18, many are not married at 23, and quite large number are not married later or even their entire lifespan. Shall we revert back to medieval practice to marry kids at 13 only not to sin outside marriage? It is as absurd as it sounds, but people did it nevertheless back then. Everyone can figure it out, and I am surprised a question that is more medical than religious takes such a big attention (is it because actually everyone is doing it).

    Someone said that sins cannot stop being sins. Does it mean that sins can start being sins at one period in history, as a result of ill understood words of Jesus? Where did Jesus say a word about masturbation? (and here I will not talk of anything else, sorry, no matter how much you want me to say a wrong word). Jesus did not leave a list of mortal sins. The Church fathers composed them later, by interpreting Jesus' words. Maybe they got it right 98% of the cases. And the masturbation wasn't in the first lines of sins for long. All of that is NOT A DOGMA. That's why I say, the teaching of the Church on the morality has been changing in time (as of the example above, the marriage between 13 year old kids in the middle ages was permissible and encouraged by bishops, while now it sounds absurd to say the least). The morality is not a dogma. No, it is not, no matter how much cardinal Muller tried to coin new dogmas where they did not exist. (Maybe that was the reason behind his ouster).

    Similarly, one can reason for the need of priestly celibacy, if it is known that most of the apostles have been married. That the early Church had married priests. That the Oriental Churches and the oriental rites inside the Catholic Church have married priests. St Paul writes, 1 Timothy 3:2
    "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife,"
    It is clear that some of the traditions confirmed in the Middle ages that are not dogmas do not go back to the time of the Apostles. So to claim that those traditions, inherited from a very different time from ours, but not from the first Christian communities, are universal and unchangeable almost as dogmas, is very, very ill understood Christian tradition and history.

    Here I do not advocate anything more than that, I do not take side on the other questions mentioned here. One is sure, that the masturbation is NOT equal to Sodomy, Adultery, and has nothing to do with Abortion. Let make the difference. Priestly celibacy is not a law set by Jesus or by Peter.

    And one word about the quote of mine that we didn't do our homework at home. It is the families who didn't educate their children in a Christian way of life, who didn't do it good enough because many of them tried hard. How is it that their children start sleepovers outside home the moment they start driving car and having pocket money, and it is highly suspicious what are they doing and with whom. Let securely bet that a good number of sleepovers end up with unexpected/undesired by parents, unapproved/unholy for the Church sexual relations of any kind... It seems all prayers and teaching of the parents weren't enough to stop that from happening, even if the boys served at mass, at Tridentine mass. From the sleepovers to the abortion is also one small step that unfortunately many of our Catholic girls have taken or will take. I think my English is clear enough, and please do not infer other words that I have never said!

    Then it goes to the the parish priests, those who confess the kids, who are their first (and for many- last) spiritual counselors. So we end up with a massive withdrawal of our youth from the Churches, and their questionable doings in secret, that lead later "surprisingly" to abortions and other evils. It is not the German bishops (or the American, or the Argentinian) who are guilty of how we educate our children. What we did, is apparently not enough, if it ends up in such a dramatic number of abortions. A good portion of them is done by Catholic women of different age, who were educated in Catholic families and attended regularly Catholic Holy Masses. Some will say, that is because of the Liberal teachings and political views...Everything starts from the family. Including by imposing nearly dictatorial regime at home that results in the rejection of everything learned when the youth enters the age of independence.

    And now some want to wash their hands with the universal soup "German heretical bishops". Too easy to be true, or to ever work. It is rather dishonest to throw the guilt to a particular group of cardinals and bishops, and not to see that the devil who makes the abortions and other evils is closer than we think, in our own parishes, in our own grown up kids' relations. I think I am crystal clear even with my poor English. Thank you for understanding me correctly!

    As I said before, I remain in expectation of the final decisions of the German synod first, and what stance the Holy father will take on that, will there be a guiding document, will it be ONLY for Germany (as Amoris Laetitia is for diocesan level decisions) or for the Universal Church, etc. Until that time, to demonize dozens of bishops because they start a honest and open discussion of questions that have been discussed before too (as on the Amazon synod, and long before that since Vatican II Council) is just absurd.

    Rather, I'd repeat that maybe the several last Synods (on the family, on the youth, on the Amazonas, now the German one) lead logically to the need of a new Church Council, be it Vatican III or held in another place and name.

    Priestesses... I develop that in my previous post, and I do not intend to repeat it. I did not defend the female priests.

    Please, do not put additional words in what I have said. Do not use my posts as a universal soup available immediately in this forum, similar to the German bishops' soup of consciences. I am not here in this forum to become the whipping boy. I am here to exchange ideas, as all of you are I hope, and above all to check the course of contemporary prophecies. All the rest is a lost time for me.

    I will not be back until May 14, and my returning to discussion will depend on the event that will/will not happen on that day. Thank you!
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
  7. Mario

    Mario Powers

    May our Rosaries on Thursday, through the grace of God, impact the world for good!:):cool:

    Safe Under Mary's Mantle!
     
  8. Jason Fernando

    Jason Fernando Archangels


    So what do you think will happen on that day?
     
  9. non sum dignus

    non sum dignus Archangels

    Actually everyone is not doing it. And even if that were true, the prevalence of the sin does not determine it's severity. As another poster ponted out, the Church has always been consistent in teaching that mastrabation is a serious (grave) sin.

    The moral capability of the sinner is (as always) possibly mitigated by the maturity of the sinner, and addictive nature of the sin.

    "Everyone is doing it" does not give us license to commit sin.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
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  10. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I totally agree. The Church teaches that
    any sexual activity outside of a valid sacramental marriage between a man and a woman is mortally sinful. That includes impure thoughts. It most definitely includes masturbation.
     
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  11. Child of God

    Child of God New Member

    Seems we have gotten off track
     
  12. Jason Fernando

    Jason Fernando Archangels

    so what do you think will be the surprise in May 14?
     
  13. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Ezdra, just because people cannot resist sin doesn't mean one abandons the effort for goodness and gives in, declaring the sin a non-sin. The Church in Her Mercy and Wisdom over the years has wisely divided the notion of mortal sin into 'grave matter', 'full knowledge' and 'full consent'. The Church has also recognised the phenomenon of 'habit', long before there was ever psychology. One with a habit has not 100% consent, so although there's grave matter, there's no mortal sin-that's how I understand it. Of course one must keep trying and with the Grace of God, the habit will eventually be shed. Christ said to forgive 'seventy-times-seven', the vernacular way of saying 'indefinitely'. Christ and His Church have already been jumping through hoops to forgive sinners-why give up now and throw the baby out with the bath-water?

    I would suggest to you to ask yourself if the intentions of those trying to eliminate these sins are as pure as they claim. They claim to be the merciful ones. But, as I say in my first paragraph, The Church has never lacked for real Mercy and the motive has always been to get as many as possible into Heaven. It is satan who wants us to give up the struggle and the best way to do it is to persuade us that the things we find most difficult to overcome aren't sins at all.

    Apart from that, you introduce some piercing questions regarding where responsibility for our grave problems lies and you are perfectly right that it isn't enough to simply scapegoat this group of bishops, although I will continue to be more critical of them than you. Just because there are other contributors to the problem, such as myself, doesn't exonerate these bishops, either. It is possible that their intentions might be genuine and good, but they would still be in error. I simply am unable to say more about these points yet, because there is too much material for me to formulate anything approaching a coherent response, but when I do, it will not be to disagree with you.

    God bless.
     
  14. Jason Fernando

    Jason Fernando Archangels

  15. Child of God

    Child of God New Member

    I have no idea about any “surprises “ I think a comment from Ezdra May have suggested something, but he didn’t give any specifics. I am more curious over the “One World Religion” creeping in on us , as well as the date selection of May 14, as this day marks Israel’s Independence Day and other events in Israel as well.
    In Pedro Regis messages, the Blessed Mother warns of something that will “SHAKE our faith” happening in the church. It would seem to me that it would be something quite extreme, and the one thing unique to our faith as Catholic’s is the Holy Eucharist.
    We’ve already been shocked wit sexual issues in the Church. I don’t think any thing else in that department would “SHAKE” our faith.
    Also, I don’t have any idea at all if this message is related to May 14.
    Who knows if maybe May 13, the anniversary of Fatima, will have any revelation for us. Perhaps the rest of the third secret? Who knows.
     
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  16. Child of God

    Child of God New Member

  17. garabandal

    garabandal Powers


    "Wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it, and right is right even if nobody is doing it." -St. Augustine
     
  18. Child of God

    Child of God New Member

    Today is the Anniversary of Our Lady of Fatima. Pray for graces on this special day!!!
     
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  19. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    U.S. Rep. Ilhan Omar reads the Quran and praises Allah in St Peter's Catholic Church in Washington

     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
  20. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Are any of those that permitted this believers?
     

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