Discussion in 'Books, movies, links, websites.' started by padraig, Sep 27, 2018.
What a blessing. God bless you. Thanks so much for the prayers.
Thank you. She is a special woman
Thank you so much for your prayers!
Again I am jealous. I have visited so few of these shrines. I haven't even gotten to visit Lourdes or Fatima yet! Shame. Maybe when I retire in a few years I wil do the Grand Tour of the Shrines of Europe.
Wouldn't that be quite something..and with the internet I could study up again to remind me for even entering the doors.
Sigh. I am a real stay-at -home, I suppose. But so many Shrines. There must be at least hundred I would love to see in France alone and that doesn't count the Cathedrals. Still, maybe in heaven.
I'm not really in a position to do any great tour myself. My husband decides where we go for our family holiday and then I see where I can get Mass!
Marie Julie's house is still just that, a house. What was the kitchen has benches and some beautiful statues, but it all really just reminded me of any Irish grannies house 20 or 30 years ago, it even smelt like that. Even the bedspread on her bed was a white version of an old brown one I got from my mother decade's ago!
It was hard to imagine that Marie Julie suffered so much, for so long in such a homely place.
Someone from an urban background might not be able to relate to it in the way I did, but for anyone in Ireland who visited elderly rural relatives in the 70's would feel right at home there.
Thank you for your prayers! I'm so impressed that you were able to complete an entire Rosary while you were there. I think that I would've been too excited and distracted to focus.
I am afraid I am in something of a time lapse myself and appear to be living very much in the past. I just read an article there in the, 'Catholic Standard' there about young/ new priests who are rejected by many of their Parishioners and there Bishops for being too old fashioned.
I read of one young priest, Fr Nicholas Rynne who got the boot from his Bishop in Tasmania after protests from some parishioners. Why? Well he asked that his congregation address him as ,'Father'.
He celebrated a weekly Latin Mass.
He wore clerical dress.
He even wore a collar.
A letter from an influential parishioner gives a taste of the depth of feeling,
'You know why you are spat on for wearing clerical dress...it is ridiculous to wear a cassock and collar in this day and age'
'Spat on', ..I mean really..'.spat on'?
But this makes me feel a billion years old. I thought, I honestly thought everyone addressed priests as , 'Father'. I never knew wearing a simple collar could cause such hate and disgust.
I mean if he had been a child molester I could see why people would want to spit on him, but for wearing a collar and saying the Latin Mass?. But then again if he had been a child molester the worst that would have happened to him would have been moved to another parish, if he had not been Bishop himself.
This kind of thing seems to be going on all the time all over the place.
So I am in a time warp. I never knew things had gone so far. But I am happy to stay in my bubble . I am happier that way.
What happens when a priest is too traditional for his parish?
Michael Warren Davis
13 June, 2019
It’s something of a trope these days. First, a young priest is assigned to a new parish, where he reintroduces elements of the pre-Vatican II liturgy. Younger, more conservative parishioners are thrilled; older, more progressive ones are outraged. Then, the bishop sides with the older folks against the priest and his more youthful admirers. The priest is removed, and what follows is an international uproar.
We saw the scenario play out recently when 38-year-old Fr Nicholas Rynne was removed as administrator of the Meander Valley parish in Tasmania by Archbishop Julian Porteous. He had rankled some of the laity by wearing a cassock, asking his congregation to address him as “Father,” and celebrating a weekly Latin Mass in addition to the regular Ordinary Form Masses. The story went viral on social media after a letter from one influential parishioner was leaked. “You know why you are spat on for wearing clerical dress and I am with those who do so as I think it is ridiculous to wear a cassock and even a collar in this day and age,” wrote one, before comparing Fr Rynne and his supporters to the Taliban.
It’s eerily reminiscent of a story that broke in February in the United States. You might recall the saga of Fr Eddie Dwyer.
Fr Dwyer served as chaplain of Saginaw Valley State University in Michigan, where his liturgical traditionalism was popular with students. The 36-year-old wove Gregorian chant and Latin prayers into the Ordinary Form: a compromise between the Novus Ordo and Tridentine forms common in university chaplaincies. Fr Dwyer was also pastor of Our Lady of Peace parish in Bay City. There too he attempted to incorporate pre-Vatican II elements into one of his Sunday Masses. Again, it was popular with the younger, more conservative elements of the community. But some of the older parishioners were furious.
Eventually, their complaints filtered up to Bishop Walter A Hurley, who was appointed as the Diocese of Saginaw’s apostolic administrator after the death of Bishop Joseph Cistone last October. “This is a serious concern in that our worship should draw us together, rather than divide,” Bishop Hurley wrote in a letter to the laity of Our Lady of Peace. “It is important that we seek ways to unite the parish in our common mission of being evangelising disciples and grow in our relationship with Christ, each in our own way.” Fr Dwyer was removed as parochial administrator.
To date, he’s received more than 600 letters of support, sources close to Fr Dwyer told the Catholic Herald. Bishop Hurley has even stated on television that the priest “has done nothing wrong”. And yet Fr Dwyer has yet to receive a new assignment. “A week ago, there were three parishes with no priests. Yet no one, especially Fr Dwyer, has been assigned,” the Herald’s source notes. “Obviously, we have a shortage of clergy here. Now, a few days after another Saginaw priest has been accused of sexual misconduct, there are four parishes without a priest.”
Fr Dwyer’s supporters claim that Bishop Hurley told the priest he would only consider returning him to active ministry if he agreed to a one-on-one meeting. Fr Dwyer insists that his canon lawyer, the diocese’s vicar-general, or a trusted senior priest also be present. Bishop Hurley refuses. (A diocesan spokesman didn’t reply to requests to confirm or deny the source’s account.)
Individuals closely involved with Fr Dwyer’s case said they appealed to the Apostolic Nuncio, but to no avail. They said they wrote to Archbishop Christophe Pierre requesting a meeting, but were told that that it would be “inopportune and unnecessary”. Archbishop Pierre reportedly insisted that he does not “interfere with the inner workings of a diocese”. Fr Dwyer’s allies hope that Bishop Robert D Gruss, the newly appointed Ordinary of Saginaw, will address Fr Dwyer’s situation. (The nunciature in Washington, DC also didn’t respond to requests to confirm or deny the source’s account.)
In the meantime, he’s keeping himself busy. Currently he’s living in the rectory of Holy Family parish in the City of Saginaw, where he celebrates the 9am Mass on Sundays. He’s said to have brought the average attendance up from 75 to 150 – at times, more than 200. You can also follow his series of “Lunch Break Homilies”, posted daily on Facebook. “Nothing will keep him from leading people to the Lord,” a source told us. And yet, until he’s given a permanent assignment, Fr Dwyer remains in canonical limbo.
However his situation is resolved, this is one case that won’t simply go away. Clearly, Fr Dwyer has hundreds – even thousands – of vocal supporters. There are several highly influential Anglophone conservatives in the College of Cardinals, many of whom no doubt take an interest in Fr Dwyer’s case, too.
But look at the bigger picture. The gulf between young traditionalists and older progressives continues to grow, especially in the priesthood. A source in the Archdiocese of Boston says that more a third of St. John’s Seminary Class of 2019 is interested in celebrating the Old Mass. And that number will only grow. If bishops continue to side with the Novus Ordo-only parishioners, we should expect resistance to intensify among the priesthood and the laity. It seems unavoidable now: a parish-level “liturgy war” is only just beginning.
It is merely the continued protestantization of the church - the laity are like protestants a la carte diners.
Most Catholics today have a protestant, secular pick and choose mentailty.
Also in Ireland I have noticed in some parishes that a good priest is defined as one who can say a quick Mass on Sundays. That says a lot!
Things are almost rock bottom.
I can understand in a vague distant kind of way why they might not, 'like', a priest returning to Traditional Catholic dress and Liturgical forms. I can distantly understand it while knowing they are wrong. The reason why they are wrong is that Traditional practices conform us to the Will of God, rather than conforming God to our Will, rather as Adam and Eve did in the Garden of Eden.
But alarms me is the venom with which they reject young priests who wish to return to Tradition. Wishing to , 'Spit', on him...I mean really?
This makes me suspect a truly diabolical element here. What I very much suspect here is that if they are landed with a good young priest the real isk is that he might call them all out on their sins, he might in other words act like a true Pastor instead of just getting along and this is at the root of their anger.
I read somewhere that someone posted a message that her prophecies was not recognised by the diocese that a person wrote to.
Cos I was wondering for a long time as to why she wasn't venerated or called blessed nor a Saint yet. Yet she seems to be very authentic to me.
Her then Bishop approved her but it doesn't mean it approved her prophecies. Cos apparitions and prophecies are two different things.
Also it's a private revelation as well. It can't be taken at face value unless she becomes a Saint who knows?
A bit like Luisa Piccaretta, there is so much material I could read related to Marie Julie that I end up reading very little.
I think it is the fact that her suffering, stigmata and numerous spiritual charisma seem genuine that catches my attention.
I have some friends I consider very holy and they seem to be genuinely convinced by Christina Gallagher, but I went to the house on Achill and heard her talk but couldn't relate to Christina. It's as if she doesn't have answers to my inner unknown and unspoken groans, but there is something of MJJ that does speak to the inner me.
.... I'm sure that all makes perfect sense to you !
Now you mention C Gallagher as I never met her. Heard a story from a friend that I knew well from school. She went to medugorje with C Gallagher, even shared a room with her in a house for a week back in 80's. She was normal housewife before she went. After medugorje C Gallagher changed into a different woman. Medugorje spawned a lot of false visionaries in my view although I could be wrong there. I was there twice as it didn't convince me except for first time.
A friend drove me to Achill and also to see her home along with her 2nd property fully walled up with 6 ft gates. Went into the church in Achill as I couldn't feel anything. I found out later that a Bishop removed the tabernacle. Rosary was said there when I arrived at first. It was sort of whole damp squib feeling.
A friend was saying to me that she believed very early prophecies of C Gallagher at first before it became discredited. Its possible that she had fallen. Nobody is perfect but I don't believe her at all now after paper S World came out with full story plastered all over.
MJJ is authentic as I see it but the Vatican doesn't recognise her prophecies which was strange but I agree prophecies and her apparitions are two different things. She suffered as victim soul is quite compelling which sounded real authentic to me. It spoke volumes re description of her sufferings along with other special gifts. Still the Vatican not recognising her as such which was baffling. Perhaps they know something that we don't.
Have you visited the wonderful, yet lesser known shrine at Kerrytown, in county Donegal. Its near Dungloe. We went up there last summer and met the people that bought it, to keep it going.
Google it, Padraig.
Well worth the visit...
Yes I did visit it. I made it there anyway. I aslo read about it when I came home. I do beleive it to be authentic. There was a little book I read one time, long out of print of modern appartions in Ireland. Really they were all over the place. I have visted a few and to be honest I have not found one yet I do not believe in
(Though it may be I am very,very gullible)
Kerrytown I believe in because of my reading of events there and the testimony of the locals. But also ; I think when you vist a Marain site there is a certain something that stays there,,a sens eof the Marian.
Here are some photos from the various Marian Sites in Ireland.
...and an account of Kerrytown
Thank you for sharing!
You're very welcome
I think Vatican "approval" is a very nuanced thing. Two things I take as genuine don't have the stamp of approval - Knock & the Sr. Josefa Menendez visions ref The Way of Divine Love.
Even if every apparition and prophesy was proven false I still trust the Bible & Eucharist, the rest is in some ways interesting but only that.
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