Discussion in 'Video Blogs' started by Beth B, Feb 26, 2017.
Praetorian, lets start a petition with the SSPX for Maine!
Wow AED....you described it perfectly! This was what it was like to be catholic back then. It was beautiful....the churches, the liturgy, and the sacredness. There was an awesomeness that penetrated your soul. It is so sad that those who did not live to know or remember our church back then could never realize. Looking back at how they rolled this out, it makes me very sad. They turned the most beautiful church and liturgy into a shell of itself.
Malachi Martin documents much of this in his video diaries ...and the back story of how the manipulation of the Vatican back then pulled this off. It all makes sense in hind sight.
If you have not listened to all of his videos, please do. You will get the insight into the political inter workings of the Vatican and the motives of those pushing this progressive, Protestant agenda on our church. It is eye opening, especially to us who have lived through the changes of Vatican II. It's a bit harder to fully appreciate how bad things are now if you have never had the privledge to be alive when our church was fully catholic.
And Bty...the music at mass today is pathetic. The awesome ,beautiful choirs of the pre Vatican II mass could put you into heaven just listening to them! You have no idea!
My sister hired a choir to sing the sacred music in Latin for her son's wedding....everyone there said it was the best part of the celebration. Protestants that were there started attending mass for weeks after hoping to capture the spirituality it invoked in them.....only to be disappointed that the beautiful Latin hymns and music were not the catholic norm today.
Oh my gosh.....the Kleenex! Yes....I remember! Our catholic school uniforms had beenies that we wore into church....little rounded caps to cover our heads. If you lost or forgot yours, the nuns held out the Kleenex box and you knew the drill. You wore a Kleenex on you head as your hat. Catholic school girls knew the value of a veil. If you were poor, you dreamed of a long, pretty lace veil in white....but those of us who had a hundred sisters were lucky if you could get to mass with your ugly beenie. I had one sister that drove us all crazy. We could never find our beenie on mass day and when the nuns would ask why we simply said they were no where to be found. One nun solved the mystery. She opened the desk of my older sister and found about a half dozen of them. This sister never brought them home and when she needed one, she just helped herself to everyone else's. She's still like that!
You too describe it perfectly. It was an awesomeness that penetrated the soul. I remember when I was home with my small children in the 80's I had ordered a collection of Gregorian chant--a set of six records from some monks in France. My husband was out at a meeting and put them on and began my Rosary. They began to sing Salve Mater and I was literally transported. I can't describe it. I was lifted up into this alternate prayer state, tears streaming down my cheeks. I felt like Joseph who had been sold into Egypt. Like I had lost my very self and listening to that exquisite hymn to the Blessed Mother gave me back a little moment of it. I have learned to live with the sadness and the yearning and I'm grateful for the crumbs that fall my way--the Latin Mass sometimes, the reverent Novos Ordo Masses that I can attend--and Malachi Martin's clear eyed, articulate explanations of exactly what happened. A forum like this is a great blessing. I'm so grateful for it.
You've given me a great laugh this morning. Thank you!!! I can just picture it.
Yes...you described so well that beautiful feeling in the soul that the sacred music moved us to. They say that the music in heaven is so awesome that it's difficult to describe. When folks return from a near death experience, they say that they keep listening and trying to find or hear something that even sounds close to what they heard in heaven....but everything, even the most beautiful, falls woefully short. Won't heaven be great!
Yes, I too am grateful to this forum....I've been enjoying hearing and remembering the days of old with you.
Headed to mass....thank you!
At the school my son attends now, Chesterton Academy of Omaha, we are under the Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter. The day starts with the Angelus and Mass. The Mass is in English, but the liturgy is much more faithful to an exact translation of the original Latin. With exceptions for readings and the Gospel, we are on our knees for the entire Mass. We pause classes for the Angelus at noon. We say the memorare and the before meal prayer at lunch. At the end of the day they say an Act of Contrition. These were also common when I taught in the Diocese of Lincoln in the 90's. Like Fr. Martin said, it is possible to find the old ways, but expect to be one of a small remnant.
It's funny you mention that because I was thinking about that last night.
I don't know but I imagine now that they will have the church's blessing they may attract a lot of new people. I think there are many people who would like to attend but simply don't because of the confusing status they were in. They could probably double or triple their size overnight. I have only ever been to one of their Masses but it was wonderful. I think it must be like stepping back to 1960. They don't go in for innovations and changes. Their priests are so well trained and knowledgeable and full of faith. Honestly I think they must be better than the priests before Vatican II. I am excited Hopefully they will start something up here.
"For your mouth to God's ears" as the Jewish proverb goes. I know they have quite a presence in New Hampshire. Wouldn't it be wonderful? I'm going to start praying for it. Hard.
I don't think they are in New Hampshire anymore. They used to be in Manchester but the last time I looked I think they were gone. I thought the closest they were was in Boston...
I know the FSSP just opened a church in Nashua this past summer.
I came from a semi-practising household - Dad a Catholic, Mum not, and I can only remember one occasion when I was taken to a Mass before the changes were introduced. I was very small but remember the awe I felt. The church was just an 'ordinary' town church, like so many others I daresay. I agree with Dolours that the language is less of a problem for me than the attitude. I much prefer 'ad orientem' and for the priest to just get on with the liturgy without interjecting comments, dragging it all out like a bad play. our PP is in many ways a sweet man, he is orthodox, or at least doesn't subscribe to any big heresies, never leaves the altar for the sign of peace, but... we get three sermons. One before Mass, one at the right time (20 mins or so) and then the announcements at the end. Plus we have the palaver with the children when they gather to leave for their own liturgy. But at least we have a priest, unlike some parts of the world where they walk for hours to attend Mass.
I'm not sure about the SSPX. I like the idea of them more than what I am hearing on the coalface. A friend of mine knows some lay people who attend an SSPX chapel and says they are extreme. Women have to wear skirts or dresses and wait on their husbands, even on one occasion after coming home with a new baby. To be honest these people as described to me sound like a cult. And... there is the ugly matter of anti-Semitism.
And on another matter... people posting here are calling out the Vatican. But the terrible liturgies and abominable 'reordering' were going on during the pontificate of St John Paul II who certainly didn't mandate this, and his successor Benedict very definitely would hate much of what we have to endure on a Sunday. At my church it is still guitars, banal hymns, and a couple of banners for 'decoration', the place looks like a 70s timewarp. I got onto the parish committee in the hope of getting something done (at least to get rid of the ghastly and indecipherable modernist Stations which don't match the traditional ones and are thus unfit for purpose). But all that happened is that I have to say what I think about cake sales. They are good, lovely people and I feel more part of this parish than any other, but I don't know what to do about the dire music. A friend said to 'pray it away' and I guess that's the answer. We do now have Exposition for an hour with the Divine Mercy chaplet ever first Friday, which I had pushed for, though can't claim the credit. It's a start.
So I am not sure that it's all about 'Rome'. Vatican II never proclaimed a vernacular Mass in buildings devoid of beauty - Latin and plainchant were recommended. But we know that the whole thing was railroaded by Bugnini and his modernist cronies. The only way is to get better bishops who won't stand for any more of this garbage. To put real Catholics in charge of seminaries and to ensure that the young men coming out of them know the faith and appreciate our wonderful and rich traditions. If the SSPX will help with this, I am delighted. As I said, I like the idea of them very much, but what are they like in reality?
As far as plainchant goes, I have a number of recordings but my favourites by far are those made in the 1950s by the monks of Clervaux (note spelling). This one has been remastered, I used to have the LP over forty years ago. And it's still marvellous. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Salve-Fest...482&sr=1-3-catcorr&keywords=monks+of+clervaux
Good for you Clare for caring enough to try to bring your church back to tradition. Don't worry about what you didn't accomplish at the moment. You having done this will accomplish all of the changes you "think" you didn't get done
"We do now have Exposition for an hour with the Divine Mercy chaplet ever first Friday, which I had pushed for, though can't claim the credit. It's a start."
That's just amazing!
It's encouraging that FSSP is in Nashua. Several years ago (before Bishop Malone)they were looking to establish themselves here but the then Bishop wouldn't go for it. Sigh.
The nice thing about the SSPX is that they will be in what is called a "Personal Prelature" meaning they answer directly to the Pope instead of the local Bishop.
You raise some interesting questions about SSPX and some good concerns too. I guess I don't know a whole lot about them except their devotion to the traditional liturgy and understanding of the sacraments, doctrine etc. I always steered clear of them because they were not in unity with the Pope. What you are describing sounds a bit like Opus Dei that has also been accused of being a cult. Who knows? We have a sedevacante "chapel" in our area that has the traditional Mass but I will not go near them. Our Bishop has forbidden it and has given good reasons for it. What a sad time for all of us. So many Catholics trying to do the right thing and be devout and getting sandbagged at every turn. I'm glad that God will sort it out in His own perfect time.
Clare I understand your concerns, I had them too. For the most part I would say the worries are unwarranted. I think most of the "bad press" the SSPX receives is because of anonymous web bloggers and posters who can be extreme in their views. It is true that they encourage women (and men) to dress modestly etc. but I will take that any day when compared to the yoga pants and tank tops etc. that I see in church all the time.
On a personal note I went to live in St. Mary's Kansas this past summer for a while. That is the center for the SSPX right now. They have a church there, a wonderful bookstore, Angelus Press is located there, etc. I was the guest of the most lovely family I have ever met. I honestly fell in love with all of them, they were so sweet. I never encountered anything strange while I was there at all. In fact it was actually like stepping back into 1955 So in that sense it was a little "strange" I guess The local stores had religious pictures up etc. Everyone did dress modestly and was polite and friendly, but I found that very refreshing. So for what it's worth there is a little personal anecdote.
Just as an addendum to my already over-long and rambly post, I have found the link to the finest Gregorian chant album ever. In my opinion. I had to rummage to find it as Amazon didn't bring it up. It's cheap enough for everyone to have. Quite simply, you can feel the Holy Spirit moving here. It's also by the monks of Clervaux. If you read the amazon reviews you will see what I mean.
The Te Deum apparently has birdsong, though I've never heard it. It is so remarkable that it seems that even creation wanted to join in.
This was beautiful...
I have family there. I visited twice. I loved that chapel and all the relics. And I spent way too much at the chapel store. It was so beautiful.
It really is a special place. Yes, the relic collection is quite amazing I probably could have spent a whole day in the religious store. The original church burned down I guess Hopefully they will be able to rebuild one now. I loved the whole town. I honestly felt like I stepped back in time. I am from the liberal northeast and haven't been to the heartland much so there was that culture shock as well. But it was a good kind of shock
The only thing I didn't like was the humidity which was very high when I was there. I live in Maine (right next to Canada) so the summer heat and humidity in Kansas was something I wasn't used to.