This extract from an interview on LifeSiteNews with a man who left the gay lifestyle speaks to what I was trying to articulate in my earlier post: LifeSiteNews: What is the one thing faithful Christians need to keep in mind when dealing with the issue of homosexuality? Bailey: Christians need to know that this is by no means an uncomplicated issue. But that is no reason to fear engaging it purposefully and directly either. This idea of “live and let live” is not how Christ was in the business of loving people. He engaged them directly, and he never avoided talking about the real “issues” that were involved. For those people like myself who see the clear distinction between what we were doing, and “who” we are or desire to be, there is a very present guilt and fear of rejection when turning to ask people in the Christian community to help us — to help us to understand our own brokenness and sin in a biblical way that leaves a person feeling loved by Christ, rather than condemned by his followers. Christians should do this by realizing that homosexuality is just another human brokenness, just like our own individual brokenness in so many ways. There should not be this stigma where some “sins” are acceptable to talk about openly and deal with, while things like homosexuality are not. The Body of Christ should be a place of healing for issues like homosexuality, not a place of fear.
I have no problems with this. I agree with him. This person understands what sin is and can repent. Just like myself. However, someone has told him the "truth", something I believe that Brother Al/Pope Francis would call "fire and brimstone".
I have not judged you. If my words hit home I am sorry. The truth is the truth. Read my posts I have never denied truth. Is homosexuality wrong and evil. Yes Brother al
Not my question Brother Al. Do you believe that you should tell people you know that this is "the truth" or do you, like the Pope, believe in "holding the light under a bushel basket" under the guise of "who am I to judge"??
This is my experience as well with the exception being that I have two cousins who are involved and there is no mistaking their choice even from a distance to someone outside the family. A prophet is not welcome in his home town and so I pray for them and hope that God will call them and the Holy Spirit will soften their hearts. My entire family supports their choice or has become completely ambivalent to it and all support gay marriage. I once felt as they did. People want to become a Christian until it calls for taking a stand. This has been the case with the cry for marriage equality in our society as well as the new age movement with their all religions are equal cornerstone. I have told my family where I stand and that I only wish for their well being and peace but this is simply not ok. I believe that many support such things because they do not have courage and simply want to sit on the fence or are afraid of being criticized by others. It really reminds me of the days of Lott or Noah. The mob will have what it wants and if you stand in its way you will be trampled. It is a spirit that overcomes many otherwise good people. Peter was overcome by this himself when he denied Christ. I feel some empathy for them, being enslaved to sin and overcome with a spirit such as this is not what the heart craves. Sure, we can bury this and hide it so deep inside of us that we put on a good show and the world looks on and is in wonder but the truth is something completely different. I think about this when I spend time with them.
Thought this quote from St Anthony of Padua really appropriate to your discussion here: (A sermon against many preachers, and on the nature of the wild cow which strikes the hunter with its dung: Dost thou know that the Pharisees, when they heard this word.) Christ says, I am the Truth [Jn 14.6]. Whoever preaches the truth, preaches Christ. Whoever conceals it in his preaching, denies Christ. "Truth leads to hatred,"8 and so, not to incur anyone’s hatred, they cover their mouths with a veil of silence. If they preached the truth as it really is, as truth requires and as holy Scripture clearly commands, then (if I be not mistaken) they would incur the hatred of carnal people, and maybe these would ‘put them out of the synagogue’. But because they go by human standards, they fear human scandal; whereas truth should not be abandoned because of scandal.
Why do you think Akita prophecy is 'fire' falling from the sky? The sins of the flesh call down the judgement of God. Sodom & Gomorrah is not a fairy-tale but a warning should society pervert itself with abominable behavior it will happen again.
This is at the crux of true evangelization. Teaching the truth is not "condemning" or judging anyone's soul. Liberals use this language to stifle discussion by trying to make the person who is willing to speak the truth feel he is less than Christian for doing so. Truth presented in charity is love. Half truths, which progressives deal in, is lack of charity as it causes confusion, scandal to God's word and often times schism.
Sure most 'modernists' in the Church believe Sodom & Gomorrah is a fairy-tale. They think the same of Hell. A wee bit of fire and brimstone is only a reminder of the reality of Hell. It does exist and souls do go there. Fear saves as much as love does.
The truth be told that it is over these issues that you and I are going to be persecuted. For holding age old truths that: Marriage is exclusively between a man and woman that there are only two genders male and female that the homosexual inclination is objectively disordered that it is an abomination for a man to sleep with a man that abortion is the killing of a defenseless life it may even be that it is from within the Church that persecution begins because the 'church of nice' is a sensitive, kind, caring church that doesn't like to hurt people's feelings.
I think the Church calls us to reach out to any sinner "where they are at". Understood in its proper context it doesn't mean changing the truth or even watering it down. But everybody is at a different place in life. If a couple who is living in adultery comes to Church for the first time they should be greeted with compassion and not meant to feel out of place. The same thing with homosexuals. I think that is all that is meant by this. It is a tricky situation to deal with though. To use a personal example, my family was just confronted last week with one of my nephew's "coming out" as bisexual. He and his wife divorced and now he is "engaged" to a man. We were all quite shocked. Half the family are devout catholics and the other half is lax. Most of us are still not sure how to handle the situation. I imagine though that if I called him and told him he is going to hell if he doesn't straighten out it would cause a huge rift in the family. We are trying to gently show that we believe what the Church teaches without condemning him as a person. Are we doing it right? I don't know. The devout side of the family won't be attending the "wedding" if we are even invited. So far there is a hush that has settled over the family. We are pretty lost.
The old adage judge the sin not the sinner comes to mind. See it as a test of love. Pray and make sacrifices for his conversion from darkness to light. In doing so you will grow to love him and desire his salvation. God will honour your prayers and sacrifices in His own good time. PS - It is not something to take on lightly. God might also test your love by sending additional personal sufferings (as I know from personal experience). When we pray and make sacrifices for a healing or a conversion God tests our faith and tests if our desires are self-less.
Thank you Garabandal, It is a difficult situation Right now prayer is the only avenue that seems open.
Nothing is impossible to God. If you truly desire his conversion then it will take prayer, fasting and sacrifice (no one needs to know). But as I posted earlier this is not an easy path to take.
That is the great balance...there is some places you make a stand. Not going to the wedding, not going to engagement party. Not being put in situations that go against you and your Families belief. But if you see him at family function... a polite hello and hug is not a bad thing. We lead by example. Brother al
I am in 100% agreement with your beliefs. It is also 100% my belief. That is our religion and what God has taught us.
I love reading about Ancient Rome. All Ancient Civilisations really but Rome in particular. I remember one time reading an account by a historian of the period about what it would be like to wake up in Rome back then and what sights and sounds we would see and hear. Well as we leave our residence the first sound we would have heard would have been the sound of crying abandoned babies dieing all about, left our by mothers who were too poor too feed them, babies who were ahdnicapped or unwanted. This would have been our fist clue to a savage world outside our experience, a pre Christian world savage and brutal beyond our comprehension. We now in a post Christian world the babies now left to be murdered in antiseptic abortion mills. But still left to die. We live in a world we go from light into Darkness . Whereas our Chrisitan Fathers lived in a world that emerged from darkness to light. In times past sexual perversion was utterly abhored by our Spiritual grandparents the Hebrews, so much so that they would not suffer those who indulged in sexual perversion to live. Our Fathers in the Christian Faith abhorred sexual perversion too. So much so that anywhere sexual perversion is mentioned in the Bible it is utterly condemned. Nowhere, not for one single instant anywhere in Scripture is any tolerance for it shown whatsoever. In the Teaching of the Church in its entire 2,000 year history has it ever been tolerated for an instant. Once again utterly condemned. The Fathers of the Church , the Saints and Popes in long line entirely and utterly against it. Why then do we in this Post Christina world , unlike our fore Fathers, find it difficult to come to terms with this vice? Why simply because in the Darkness of this amoral, dark , decadent post Christian world sexual immorality is everywhere accepted , just as the dying babies in Ancient Rome were everywhere accepted. The Christian who wished not to part of this darkness must be a person of prayer and light. The Christian who does not pray becomes part of the darkness by accepting it. To put it simply, the Catholic who is a person of prayer will have an active conscience (conscience being grace aided reason) . This active conscience wil show him clearly that sexual perversion and immorality is a great evil. He or she will walk in the light. The Catholic who no longer prays will have blinded their conscience and no longer differentiating between good and evil will embrace evil. It is not a matter of the reason but of the heart. Either we have grace in our hearts and reject evil; or not have grace in our hearts and embrace it. Sheep one way. Goats another. As simple as that There is a Holy anger. If a Catholic does not experience a holy anger and loathing for sexual perversion, I would be concerned. I really would. The Fathers of the Church had it. Scripture teaches us it. The saints were full of it. Pope after Pope was on fire with it. The path Our Fathers in the Faith walked we should walk too. We should come out from among them. The path of the pervert is not our path. Hopefully their final destination not ours. https://www.tfpstudentaction.org/blog/12-quotes-against-sodomy-that-every-catholic-should-know
Thanks Fallen Saint. It feels like we should be "doing" more, but it is like walking through a minefield. Recourse to prayer for now seems the only option as well as the types of "resistance" you mentioned.
Very well stated Padraig. As you know, our Lady of Fatima said, "more souls go to hell, because of the sins of the flesh than for any other reason". This being said, when was the last time, if ever, you heard a homily on this? Now we know why the Church is in such dire need. It has lost its salt, it's unwillingness to speak the truth.
A few years ago, I made a bus trip with the bishop and many others to the only approved US apparition site in the US (Our Lady of Good Help shrine). I drove 3 older ladies from my town to meet up with the others 3 hours away for the bus ride. Oddly enough, I found out that a couple of the old ladies (in their 80's) who went to daily mass, said the rosary etc.... had no problem with gay marriage. "Well their God's children too", she said! Being the calm person I am I said nothing, but internally was shaking my head in shock and awe! The reason I bring this up, is it is a demonstration of how false compassion/tolerance has entered into the most innocent of them all within the Church. Clearly, we are in the era when good intentions are being usurped by the masses who have sold their agenda to the most vulnerable. How fast, has those living in this period of history been convinced that what was wrong is not right and the what we knew to be right is not wrong.....and most are swallowing the bait, hook - line and sinker. No wonder our Lord said, "when I return, will I find any faithful".
