LGBT in the Church

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by Fatima, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Well, it looks like we can now throw out the first chapter of Romans now too.

    Top Vatican and U.S. church officials back new gay-friendly book
    “Building A Bridge: How the Catholic Church and the LGBT Community Can Enter into a Relationship of Respect, Compassion, and Sensitivity” by Father James Martin. (Credit: Images courtesy of Harper Collins.)

    Father James Martin's new book, "Building a Bridge," includes several blurbs from top figures in the Catholic Church's hierarchy which is a surprising break from the past. This seems to indicate a sea change during the papacy of Pope Francis.

    The Vatican’s point man on family issues and a U.S. cardinal who is close to Pope Francis have both blurbed a new book by a Jesuit priest and popular author that calls on the Catholic Church to be more respectful and compassionate toward gay people.

    They called it “brave, prophetic, and inspiring” and a “much-needed book.”

    Such positive language from senior church leaders is extraordinary and another sign of how Francis is reorienting the church toward a more pastoral focus.

    Building a Bridge: How the Catholic Church and the LGBT Community Can Enter into a Relationship of Respect, Compassion, and Sensitivity, by Fr. James Martin of America magazine, does not advocate for any changes in doctrine nor does it touch third-rail topics like same-sex marriage; nor do the churchmen who praise the book, to be published by HarperOne on June 13.

    But simply using terms like LGBT to describe people is highly controversial for many in the church who insist that gay people be described as “homosexual” or “same-sex attracted” rather than by words that seem to affirm their orientation.

    Cardinal Kevin Farrell, who was recently chosen by Francis to head the Vatican office on laity, family, and life issues, praises Martin’s writing in his blurb: “A welcome and much-needed book that will help bishops, priests, pastoral associates, and all church leaders more compassionately minister to the LGBT community.

    “It will also help LGBT Catholics feel more at home in what is, after all, their church,” said Farrell, the former bishop of Dallas.

    “In too many parts of our church LGBT people have been made to feel unwelcome, excluded, and even shamed,” Newark Cardinal Joseph Tobin, who Francis personally picked for the New Jersey archdiocese, adds in a blurb.

    “Father Martin’s brave, prophetic, and inspiring new book marks an essential step in inviting church leaders to minister with more compassion, and in reminding LGBT Catholics that they are as much a part of our church as any other Catholic.”

    “The Gospel demands that LGBT Catholics must be genuinely loved and treasured in the life of the church. They are not,” writes Bishop Robert McElory of San Diego, also a rising star in the U.S. hierarchy, in another endorsement.

    McElroy says Martin “provides us with the language, perspective, and sense of urgency to replace a culture of alienation with a culture of merciful inclusion.”

    Francis himself sparked controversy when he used the term “gay” last year in saying that the Catholic Church should apologize to LGBT people, among others, that it has “offended.”

    The pope’s comments came in the wake of the shooting massacre at a gay nightclub in Orlando, FL, in June that left 49 dead, and Martin’s book also emerged from that tragedy.

    Martin, whose books about Jesus and Catholic spirituality and related topics have landed on the best-seller lists, has often written about the role of gays and lesbians in the church, and about the need for the church to do more to welcome them.

    But he was struck by the relative lack of compassion from U.S. bishops for gays and lesbians who were targeted in the Orlando shooting and elsewhere, and he voiced his concerns in a powerful Facebook video that went viral.

    The video prompted more than the usual level of anger and criticism of Martin, and prompted him to begin writing about how to address the rift between LGBT people and church leaders.

    He outlined his views in an October talk - an address that would become the basis of Building a Bridge - as he accepted an award from New Ways Ministry, a group for LGBT Catholics and causes that in the past has been condemned by church leaders who said it was not authorized to represent itself as a Catholic organization. (The talk was reprinted in America magazine.)

    A co-founder of New Ways Ministry is Sister Jeannine Gramick, whose views were considered so far outside the bounds of Catholic teaching that she was barred by the Vatican and her order from speaking about homosexuality. She transferred to another order and has continued to minister and speak and write on the topic.

    In fact, Gramick also blurbs Martin’s book, writing: “Father Martin shows how the Rosary and the rainbow flag can peacefully meet each other. A must-read.” That she is endorsing the same book as senior church leaders is an indication of the sea change under Francis.

    “I was delighted that Cardinal Farrell and Cardinal Tobin found the book helpful,” Martin said in an email to RNS. “To me, it’s a reminder that many in the hierarchy today support a more compassionate approach to LGBT Catholics.”

    In his talk, as in the book, Martin called on church leaders and all Catholics to treat gays and lesbians with greater respect and sensitivity.

    He said church leaders should address LGBT people by the term they call themselves, and he called for an end to the indiscriminate firings of church employees who are discovered to be gay or who make their sexual orientation public. Such firings selectively target LGBT people, he said.

    But he also called on gays and lesbians to be more considerate and respectful of the hierarchy, saying both sides must listen to each other and learn from each other.

    “This may be very hard for people who feel beaten down by the church to hear,” Martin writes in the book.

    “One gay friend recently told me that this mockery comes not from a place of hatred, but from a sense of betrayal. But being respectful of people with whom you disagree is at the heart of the Christian way. And part of this is surely about forgiveness, an essential Christian virtue.”

    The book also includes biblical passages and meditations for LGBT Catholics and their families.
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  2. Mario

    Mario Powers

    I've always thought that the Church clearly teaches that any sexual activity or lifestyle outside of the realm of marriage is sinful. This would include masturbation, passionate kissing, viewing pornography, premarital sex, adultery, homosexual sex, etc. The persons engaged in such lustful activity need to repent and seek God's mercy. The Scriptures condemn lust, even in the realm of marriage:

    Tobit 8:8 Thou madest Adam of the slime of the earth, and gavest him Eve for a helper. 9 And now, Lord, thou knowest, that not for fleshly lust do I take my sister to wife, but only for the love of posterity, in which thy name may be blessed for ever and ever.

    Certain individuals exhibit strong tendencies toward some of these sins. When such tendency is toward someone of the same sex, we have coined the phrase, same-sex attraction. The Church teaches that this is disordered and steps should be taken to exercise self-control.

    Is it wrong to use terms such as LGBT? Not always. Yet, the culture promotes the position that sexual activity, among persons who choose LGBT terms as identifiers of their own identity, is licit and morally good. States such as New Jersey have gone so far as to make illegal, therapies to help combat such sexual tendencies. And, of, course, same-sex unions, under civil law, are now called marriages.

    But in this regard, I am a Catholic first, and a citizen, second.

    If I have insulted, made fun of, mocked, or condemned people with such tendencies, then I must repent. And if my lack of charity was directed toward an individual, then I must apologize, also.

    But it would demonstrate a lack of charity and a dismissal of moral law to teach that any sexual activity outside of marriage, or any nurturing of lustful desire, is pleasing to God.

    I believe my position is clear, correct, simple, and understandable. Have I always lived up to God's call in my life concerning these matters? No! And may the Lord have mercy on me.

    Help me, Jesus, to be more bold in sharing the wonderful and holy freedom that everyone can find in You alone!

    Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
  3. 4unborn

    4unborn Angels

    Another example of the deconstruction of Catholicism and immorality of Pope Francis.
  4. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    I think it is safe to say in our current culture the only group that is no longer protected from attacks is the Christians. The worst is yet to come, but the trend is to put a bubble around every sinful behavior and call it good and to condemn and even prosecute the "hateful" Christians who oppose what used to be outlawed even by our government.

    In the end, who wins by opening the Church doors to sodimites? The answer is quite clear. They do! The church, or whatever is left of it, becomes a mockery of Christ and God's teachings. The Church of False compassion through false tolerance will rule the day under the deception of Freemasonry. These fake clergymen are out to destroy what is sacred and turn it into the whore of Babylon.

    What is an abomination, is that apparently our pope does not see the end result to this false compassion and if he does it is worse yet. It is his hand picked buddies coming up with this stuff.
  5. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    Made possible by Pope Francis. My very catholic grandmother used to say the road to hell is paved with "good intentions." Pope Francis is full of "good intentions".
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  6. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

    Anything "sister"Gramick endorses cannot be good! About New Ways Ministry:
  7. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Just like so many causes today, those practicing sinful acts do not want the Churches 'good will' they want total acceptance of their gravely disordered sinful actions. They want nothing of the Churches doctrine within their choices. They use all this 'guilt language' to get those who sympathize with their cause to build a hatred and persecution for anyone or any Church that dares oppose them. Among these sympathizers are those at the highest levels within the Church. If anyone dares speak against them they will be sued, fined and soon to be locked up in jail. Sodom and Gomorrah have nothing on today's LBGTQ, especially now, that from the highest offices in the Church we are told we must now accept their choices to live a life opposed to God's will. This is truly what is meant by "building a bridge".
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  8. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    I have never read about any pink pearly gates in Heaven, and wasn't the rainbow given as a sign of a Covenant from God that He would not drown the people on a vast scale again. The rainbow has been hijacked by the delusional as a sign that was never intended by God. Ironically the same delusional group who want to hijack the act of procreation in a way that was never intended by God either.
  9. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Lucifer perverts everything the Eternal Father has created
    But Lucifer can't create
    He's a thief and a liar and a murderer
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  10. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    And what is sad is he has plenty of accomplices with the Church :(
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  11. Virtue

    Virtue Angels

    I don't think it's coincidence that the rainbow has 7 colors, and 7 is the Biblical number of perfection--but the gay flag has only 6 colors in it, which is the number of imperfection.
  12. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    The creep, creep, creep of incrementalism seeping into the Church. It seems like it always starts off with redefining words and their meanings. Making way for the softening of convictions and teachings.

    If this is the official stance on how the Church should proceed with regard to this issue it is taking the wide path. I had other serious issues as a young man but I am so grateful that nobody treated me this way. I would have surely been lost to my sin.
  13. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    In hindsight, I think the reason for the current pope´s statements is now clear: "Who am I to judge" and "the Church should apologize to gay people".

    It is clear now where all this is going.

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  14. Elisa

    Elisa Powers

    Perhaps in Church some persons have condemned in hard words gay persons leaving them no way out. Perhaps this is what the Pope means. The Pope asks us not to condemn the gay persons as individuals but to condemn only their sexual acts as gay persons towards the same sex. If we do not act this way, gay persons will never return to the Church and miss the opportunity to receive salvation. Condemnation is a weapon because it kills without mercy. Mercy means: give the sinner an opportunity to convert.
  15. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Can you see where this church of apology has taken us? Scripture, while teaching forgiveness and mercy, also talked about the sinner repenting for sins of sodomy, abortion (killing), adultery, fornication etc.... Where is this message for those practicing these horrid sins of the flesh to repent from them so they can live in God's grace?
  16. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    I see your point, Elisa. I and probably every member of this forum completely agree with Pope Benedict´s quote below:


    What seems to be missing now is the follow-up that is strangely absent from the Vatican these days:

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  17. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Before the Gay Lobby, all homosexual acts and all acts of pedophilia were considered objective disorders and were catalogued as such in psychiatric manuals.
    I can still remember vividly the day a Christian friend in my workplace came up to me and let me know that pedophilia had been removed from the books as an objective disorder. We were so shocked!!! (In my heart, I still kind of believe in PizzaGate even though the MSM calls it false news.)
    The evils we see today are the result of the "creep, creep, creep of incrementalism" as Don so clearly put it. I think someone else on the forum mentioned it as likened to the boiling frog effect: just a gradual killing off of God's laws, both natural laws and Catholic Church tenets. The frog is blissfully unaware of its fate.
    The shocking thing is that it is happening in the Church as well as the world. Where did I read this: "When the Church and the world are one, then shall come the end?"
  18. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

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  19. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come


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  20. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    My problem with lgbt terminology is that it classifies a person by his/her sexual orientation. That destroys the idea of male and female. I can give a hoot of what your sexual orientation is. lgbt dehumanizes a person.

    Brother al
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