Knock - the lanterns

Discussion in 'Ireland' started by Indy, Apr 27, 2019.

  1. Indy

    Indy Praying

    A close friend of mine is trying ton convince me the Knock apparitions are a hoax and were created by Magic lanterns were early projectors.

    See this:

    I am fully convinced that this story is some kind of hoax.

    Here is an example lantern.


    I want to be able to defend the truth, but has anyone here had to defend knock before or have you heard people try to debunk apparitions using magic lanterns.
  2. "Quis ut Deus"

    "Quis ut Deus" Powers Staff Member

    So nobody noticed a guy with a magic lattern standing very close to the gabel wall?? Given the fact that it would be powered by candle light? And the vision itself was truly heavenly no theologian could have depicted or put together such a scene enough said brother indy ;););)
  3. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

  4. Indy

    Indy Praying

    I am on the side of the apparition, 'but I know someone who is completely convinced by the magic lantern tale he even thinks the lantern was either concealed or hidden in the ground. I think we can really only pray for him at this stage. But I will argue wit also, I was hoping for some more facts from here to back the truth up.
  5. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Where could a lantern be hidden in the ground? The sceptics' website suggests in the grass. That picture you posted of a magic lantern suggests that it would have taken meadow length grass to hide it. The Telegraph reporter described the area between the church and the stone wall as a yard. On this side of the Atlantic a yard is not a grassy area but a hard-surfaced area near a building - the hard surface often being gravel, concrete or tarmac. School playgrounds were often called the schoolyard, and probably still are. At the time of the apparition, most likely the yard was a mix of stones/gravel and well trodden soil. The church and the schoolhouse shared that yard which means that regular footfall between Mass goers (daily) and children playing would have left the ground rock hard. A look at the picture of the people kneeling will give you an idea of what kind of surface it was.

    It's unlikely that the grass in the field behind the stone wall would have been long enough to obscure the camera, otherwise people wouldn't have been walking through it on a wet evening. And even if the grass were long enough, was the lantern magic enough to project an image through a stone wall?

    The windowsills of the church aren't deep enough to hold the contraption in the photo, and it's very likely that the windowsills of the school house were even narrower than those on the church.

    Your friend needs a hobby if he/she has time to pay attention to the stuff on that type of website.
  6. Indy

    Indy Praying

    My friend will do anything to avoid his true calling as a Catholic. He thinks he is covered but occasionally reading the bible and telling himself that he is born again. I think he would make a fine priest if only he could see sense.
    Frank Markus and HeavenlyHosts like this.
  7. "Quis ut Deus"

    "Quis ut Deus" Powers Staff Member

    As I stated in my previous post you need to look at what the vision of Knock portrayed on the gabel wall,, the lamb on the altar, john holding the book of revelation and the golden crown on our ladys head, this vision or picture from a magic lantern was way above the heads of any simple folk of that time in Knock especially the mind of a simple police officer ;);) who was just trying to spook people
    HeavenlyHosts, maryrose and Carol55 like this.
  8. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    So of all the people who gathered around in front of the apparition and nobody happened to step between the projector and the image?

    And nobody turned around to see a bright white light where the projection was coming from?

    Now that is a miracle.
  9. Sam

    Sam Powers

    Definitely a miracle :rolleyes: I was just reading the accounts of the witnesses and they said the figures stood out from the walls. Also that Our Lady had a Gold Crown as compared to her white robe/cloak. I didn't realize lantern shows could do that! Also a rainy night seems a poor choice of a night to do a lantern show, especially one that ran for so long. Some people were there from 8:15 till 9:30. Also people said that the where the apparition was there was no rain?
    Witnesses Accounts - Knock Museum Collection - Marian Shrine | Knock Shrine | Ireland’s National Marian Shrine | Shrine MayoMarian Shrine | Knock Shrine | Ireland’s National Marian Shrine | Shrine Mayo
  10. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Not nearly as miraculous as the parish priest and the Protestant RIC man colluding to play a hoax on the priest's parishioners. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
  11. SteveD

    SteveD Archangels

    James Joyce, the famous Irish writer and atheist of the early/mid 20th century put forward this explanation in his book 'Dubliners'. Joyce's atheism was challenged by the apparitions at Knock so he sought an explanation that would explain the numerous and identical witness accounts and this is what he came up with. When an attempt was made by others to prove his theory by reproducing the image they failed miserably. Like the attempts to replicate the Shroud of Turin, the 'magic lantern' experts were unable to reproduce an image anything like that reported by the witnesses. (Pray for the soul of James Joyce a great writer but an enemy of God - pending any final repentance for which petition many good Irish Catholics of the time must have prayed).
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  12. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    Just checked the "miracle" site referred to above (10 minutes of my life I´ll never get back).

    The author also "debunks" Fatima.

    He says the miracle of the sun never happened and that the "Lady" that appeared was probably an alien who came in a UFO.

    I kid you not. Some quotes:

    "Page 5 reports that the Vicar General of the diocese and a priest saw a globe of light floating around the sky on September 13 prior to the apparition. No wonder Fatima is taken as an example of a UFO sighting with the apparition under suspicion as being an alien."

    "The Cova was a natural amphitheatre which may mean that the event (the miracle of the sun) was a natural illusion caused by the way the sun’s rays were focused by the landscape."

    Ah, that explains everything, does it not? 70,000 people were in the grip of a natural illusion. End of story. Why didn´t we think of that explanation before.

    "The apparitions of Fatima were hoaxes and the Church worked on them through faking evidence for them after it had happened.
    The Fatima visions should be categorised with visions of aliens and UFO’s and spaceships not with religion. The apparitions were used as Catholic propaganda, “Here we have a sign that God is real and the Church authorities speak for him so obey these authorities.” That is enough to put one off accepting the veracity of the revelations of Fatima."
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
    Frank Markus likes this.
  13. Joan J

    Joan J HolySpiritCome!

    Sounds like someone else's propaganda!
    Frank Markus likes this.
  14. "Quis ut Deus"

    "Quis ut Deus" Powers Staff Member

    OK indy I think I can put your friends theory to bed
    The apparition happened at 8pm in August so it was day light? No chance of a magic lantern projecting an image on a wall in daylight I think that's what they call slam dunk ;);):):D
  15. Indy

    Indy Praying

    Hole in one Quis, nice one. I have to say you all have been fantastic and helped me a lot. I have relayed all your thoughts and advice to my friend, its bound to have an affect. A few prayers might also help, he would be a great asset to our lady if we would see sense.

    I also had a good read over this from a while back its pretty good.

    Again, you are great people and thanks again. God Bless.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
    Frank Markus likes this.
  16. padraig

    padraig New Member

    As far as I recall this is not a new hypothesis. It was put forward almost as soon as the apparition was reported. But at the time this technology was in its very infancy and it would have been technically impossible for anyone to project such a scene for such a length of time through the rain back then. I read a report on this, debunking this hypothesis many years ago. I will see if anyone has put it up online.

    It's one of those things that sounds very good until you start to look into it. People could very easily do such a thing nowadays, but not back then.
    Indy likes this.
  17. padraig

    padraig New Member

    But you know the bottom line is people often believe what they want to. If for instance people do not want to believe that Jesus rose from the dead they will believe that no matter how many proofs you bring them.

    People ofteny believe just what they want to.
  18. Indy

    Indy Praying

    Very true and in this case my friend will believe anything that is against Catholicism. He does not want it to be true, it doesn't suit his lifestyle. He think he can sin from time to time and then just speak to God asking forgiveness and everything is good again. He believes what he wants to believe. Saying that he has a great love for Jesus, but is badly misguided.

    I am still interested in that article debunking the lanterns if anyone can fine it.
    padraig likes this.
  19. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Yes it is not of the intellect but of the heart.

    Praying for your friend tonight.
    Indy likes this.

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