John Michael Talbot: Troubadour for the Lord

Discussion in 'Video Blogs' started by Richard67, Jun 17, 2018.

  1. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    Very powerful interview given by John Michael Talbot (starting around the 7:00 minute mark) on his own conversion from Agnosticism-Methodism to Catholicism and the ongoing need for liturgical renewal:



    And one of my personal favorites by John Michael:

     
  2. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    I skipped through the first video Richard.
    I didnt like it at all.
     
  3. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    We have an ongoing need for going back to liturgical Council of Trent.;)
     
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  4. DivineMercy

    DivineMercy Archangels

    Amen. I had attended one of John Michael Talbot’s concert conferences when I was a teenager, and thought he was the only voice of proper liturgical music at the time. I mean, that’s what liturgical music should sound like, right? I had my choir learn his version of the Magnificat to sing, because it was the most respectful version available (out of 9 versions!) in the sad hymnal at my parish. Eventually, I and my choir came to know the beauty and 1st place value of Gregorian Chant, and learned to sing the Magnificat chant instead. Of course, this led many in my choir, including myself, to realize the beauty and 1st place value of the traditional Latin Mass as well. Our choir had started to change the hearts of many (pardon my description) old tired 60’s yuppies in the pews who after a time came around to liking our revival of Gregorian chant in the Mass. I’ve moved this last year out of state (attending FSSP now) but my little sister and cousin continue to lead our choir in this venture.
     
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  5. AED

    AED Powers

    Your experience shows the grace and power of this sacred holy music—ever ancient ever new. Wow! So good to hear.
    You are blessed to have an FSSP parish.
    I have to say I really detest guitar music. Detest it. And I used to play and perform in college. I spent hours perfecting my playing. Now I find in church it grates on my ears. It just doesn’t stand the test of time.
     
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  6. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    John Michael Talbot’s music is more than the “guitar music” that tries to pass for Sacred worship music at many Catholic Churches today. John Michael Talbot’s music will stand the test of time, as much as the Gregorian Chant or great Organ pieces. The reason is that Talbot’s songs are truly inspired by the Holy Spirit. Sadly, many of our Catholic Churches today don’t have a place for the Chant, for the great Catholic organ music that once resonated in the Cathedrals of Europe, or even for John Michael Talbot.
     
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  7. AED

    AED Powers

    I must confess I know little about Talbot. I should listen to him. I was referring to the tinny stuff so often heard at Mass. I am just so over it. Beautiful liturgical music of any age uplifts the spirit.
     
  8. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers


    I would class John Michael Talbot along with great Catholic artists like Bob Hurd, Carey Landry, Dan Schutte, David Haas, etc. Just a sampling of their work:









     
  9. AED

    AED Powers

    Only in God has long long been a favorite of mine. Both versions. There was a time in my life when that hymn literally kept me going.
     
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  10. DivineMercy

    DivineMercy Archangels

    Music was always a big part of my life.... I had piano and singing lessons through high school and was in our church choir for a long time, and then within the last few years led one of my parish’s choirs. That being said, I have definitely changed my mind over the years over what should or should not be used in the context of the sacrifice of the Mass. As far as all those music artists mentioned above (yes like most American Catholics I know all those songs they wrote that ended up in the hymnals, and my mom had about 5 John Michael Talbot cds at home) I respectfully disagree that ANY of that music should be used in the context of the Holy Sacrifice. It’s great for a praise and worship gathering, but there is a major problem in most American parishes with the 4 hymn sandwich. Parishes need to go back to singing the Propers of the Mass as the Vatican 2 documents still called for. There are several hymnals in both English and Latin with different musical settings to accomplish this. The banal 4 hymn sandwich needs to be done away with. Liturgically, this completely changed my life and the way I prayed the Mass.
     
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  11. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    I think balance is what is needed. I’ve run across “Trads” who think Vatican II was the work of the Devil and is to be ignored and only by attending Latin Mass and singing the Chant can we please the Lord and make it to Heaven. On the other hand we have the sacreligious “circus masses” like the one recently in Germany or what I term “classic rock masses” where there is an electric guitar and drums which distract from the liturgy.

    I think what is needed is balance, discernment and a better understanding of just what Vatican II taught. Liturgical music - whether ancient or modern -should lift our hearts and minds to the Lord. Many Trads I am friends with are surprised when I inform them that Vatican II’s Constituion on the Sacred Liturgy, following the teaching of Pope Pius X, in fact put primary emphasis on the Gregorian Chant and the pipe organ. The rationale being that these are properly suited to the liturgy since they were specifically developed for liturgical use. Although other forms of music are welcome, Vatican II makes clear that these other forms may be used “only on the condition that they are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use, are in accord with the dignity of the place of worship, and truly contribute to the uplifting of the faithful.” We should never forget that before the Chant and the pipe organ, there was the harp and lyre of King David.
     
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  12. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    I haven't studied the subject Richard.
    But I have heard from those who have.
    When a Protestant divorced hippy wont part from his guitar or long hair and start his own religious order its time to say bye bye.
    I am sure he has done very well however during the new 'Springtime' in the church these last few decades.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
  13. DivineMercy

    DivineMercy Archangels

    Interesting you brought up King David, since the Propers of the Mass are mostly his Psalms and have been deemed to be the “proper” prayer and hymn to be sung during the holy sacrifice. You referred to Latin and chant, but didn’t seem to notice my comment that the Church wants the proper texts of the Mass sung. How many parishes in the U.S. actually do this? My choir and I consisted of young 20’s/teenagers (myself the old senior in my early 30’s) and together we discovered the texts of the Mass that are SUPPOSED to be done! We couldn’t believe that the previous generations thought they had the right to simply ignore and trash the texts of the mass and bring in the hippy kumbyya let’s hold hands music and sing about how awesome we are instead. Seriously, this is what my choir consisting of teenagers and young 20’s still thinks, and this is not a “Trad” parish, they don’t even have a Latin Mass within a 3 hr drive to go to (I speak in odd present/past tenses because I recently moved out of state. My little sister and cousin still lead this choir at my old parish). So now they sing the Propers at the Mass (in English) and the people have grown to love what they’re doing. It’s what is supposed to be done. So called balance isn’t an issue when you actually read how the Mass should be sung instead of applying our own interpretation of “what songs we like to hear.” Sorry for my rant, music is dear to me, and we feel cheated by the arrogant generations who trashed the Mass and left us having to figure out on our own what’s supposed to be done.
     
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  14. DivineMercy

    DivineMercy Archangels

    The link is an example of what is SUPPOSED to be sung for the So called Entrance hymn (traditionally referred to as Introit) for Trinity Sunday. This is the text from the Vatican 2 hymnal, and is NOT pre Vatican. The whole reason the 4 hymn sandwich came about in parishes is that they trashed the texts the Church had been using while waiting for the “update” in English to come out which didn’t happen til sometime in the 70’s. By the time the Proper texts in English were released the modernists has accomplished the hijaking they sought and the monstrous “music” was being sung everywhere with no attention paid to the texts. You may not care for this sound, but this is the Simple English Propers as composed by Adam Bartley. It was one of the simpler modes composed for the texts and what my choir found easiest to learn since, you know, our generation didn’t even know this existed and is supposed to be sung since we all grew up on Eagles Wings and We Are the Body of Christ while walking up to communion.

     
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  15. DivineMercy

    DivineMercy Archangels

    Here are the texts of the Mass, the Propers, to be sung this Sunday the Feast of the Birth of St John the Baptist. This is what every parish SHOULD be singing this Sunday:

    Introit (entrance):


    Offertory:


    Communion:
     
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  16. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Should? Well, there is a long journey between what we have now and what you have said we should be doing. That is really a decision that is in the priest's hands, here again. I am glad that you have completed your journey to the FSSP parish. Blessings to you! Thank you for sharing. When I am tempted to disparage, I remember that the Mass is Golgotha.
     
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  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Love John Talbot, a very special Ministry. I down loaded loads of his music to listen to while walking. Always leads to prayer, bless him.

    I also love Orthodox Chant. I can't, of course, understand the languages but its just so beautiful.

     
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  18. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Gregorian Mass on Sundays is wonderful at the Old Rite mass. I have thought of joining the choir, but not being able to sing is no help. It kind of spoils you for other Church music a little though , I was at a Novena mass the other day and they were using '60's type hymns which sounded awful to me. 'Kumbaya', just doesn't do it for me now. :)

    I have downloaded a lot but there are a lot of cover versions of Gregorian which are quite bad.

     
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  19. DivineMercy

    DivineMercy Archangels

    I completely agree - there is a long journey between what we have now and what we should be doing. To be clear though, it is NOT that it is my personal opinion that this is what should be being done, but the Church. Our ideas about music during the Mass consisting of say Pan De Vida, City of God, They'll Know We Are Christians, or *shudder* Gather the People and thinking that this is how music should be done for Mass is like listening to Fr James Martin talk about homosexuals in the the Church and thinking that the Church should be accepting (of what he obviously wants to implement). Yes, I do think it is a very serious subject. Music enters the soul, it moves and guides it to think, act, and feel a certain way about things, and in this instance, the Mass. I believe this is why the modernists set out to destroy it. After all, if we're walking up to communion (as I have experienced myself many times) and the *choir* is strumming away and pounding away on guitars and drums singing Pan De Vida with the lyrics "We are the dwelling of God, fragile and wounded and weak, we are the body of Christ, called to be the compassion of God" - who is the focus? I'm thinking of myself being weak, I need to be compassionate, I I I I I I I. This is a huge problem. I'm going to receive Jesus? I am? I'm singing about myself being His body. Its all the same, right? I'm His body, the guy behind me, the girl in front, you see how confusing for people lyrics make our time of what should be prayer. And we wonder why so few Catholics actually believe in the True Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist? My parish hadn't used the dusty organ in over 20 years. We had a lady strum guitar for one Mass, a very mediocre choir (the main church choir at the main Mass) used the keyboard at another, the Spanish choir brought their guitars, basses, drums, and the rainmaker thing, and I admit I never dared venture to attend the "youth Mass" so I'm not sure what they used. My start up choir was able to secure the the Saturday evening Mass that the lady who strummed guitar played at a few times a month, with condition of alternating. My high school cousin knew piano, so he began to teach himself to play the dusty organ that hadn't been touched in 20 years. My younger sisters and several friends and I got together and thought, lets just sing something that sounds meditative. So we sang John Michael Talbots "Holy Is His Name", "O Breathe on Me O Breathe of God," "O Jesus Joy of Loving Hearts", "Be Thou My Vision" "Panis Angelicus" just to name a few along with singing the Ordinary in Latin (Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, Agnus Dei). The congregation was slightly startled, but used to the odd stuff happening and went with it. We had a recent graduate of St Thomas Aquinas in our choir and he taught us how to pronounce some Latin and read chant notation, so we learned to sing some basic chants like Adoro Te Devote, Ave Verum Corpus, Magnificat, Ubi Caritas, etc. In our digging we discovered the Propers of the Mass, and it just dumbfounded us that no one knew or talked about it. In the process, the hippies in the pews slowly have changed as they come to Mass. The proof was that whenever the lady came to strum on her guitar on rotation the people had actual recoil reactions to it. They have come to the awareness that there is something to the music that changes their perception of the Mass. People can change - its took my choir a year to bring about this awareness and support from the congregation. The choir has been asked to sing at both a funeral and wedding at this point. No one in it is a professional. In fact the only people who had actual lessons of any kind were myself and my self-taught organ playing cousin. No one can really harmonize or sing in parts, my cousin makes mistakes on the organ (though he's been getting much better). The point is that people have been drawn because of what is being sung and how. Change can happen, and people can change. I have a personal belief that after the chastisements and the Triumph take place that all the stuff being sung in Masses will completely disappear, and the original chants of the Mass will be what remain in the restored and renewed Church. I included links below for anyone to see more information on what the Propers of the Mass are. I highly recommend reading the links, as they provide the text from V2 documents as well as post V2 documents that discuss this. Peace.

    http://b16schola.org/what-are-the-propers/

    https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=7939

    https://adoremus.org/2015/02/15/what-must-be-sung-is-the-mass/

    http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/singing-the-mass

    https://www.hprweb.com/2016/01/propers-of-the-mass-versus-the-four-hymn-sandwich/
     
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  20. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Well, I did say thank you for sharing your journey. I do get your point. At one time , not too long ago, an old Italian priest was retiring. He celebrated both the NO and the TLM. His name is Fr. Salvatore Vitturino, called Fr. V. His last sermon to the congregation was that the NO and the TLM were two separate and distinct liturgies, and both were valid and both were quite different. That has sustained me. I love the Mass, I love it day and night. Whatever we have left, I go with. If it is not enlightening, I pray reparations. I pray for the celebrants, the congregation, the choir, families, and self. I pray for MOG members. I pray for my pets.
    I take them all to Mass with me. :) Jesus and Mary are there, choir or no choir.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
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