It seems that the Lord without us cannot do anything??

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by sparrow, May 14, 2020.

  1. sparrow

    sparrow Powers

    Catholic Sat

    At Mass this morning, Pope Francis says: "Without Jesus, we cannot do anything. Just as there is no branches without the vine. If you permit me to say this, it seems that the Lord without us cannot do anything either, because the fruit comes from the branches, not from the vine."
    2:07 AM · May 13, 2020·TweetDeck

    Unless the interpreter is wrong, that's what he said.. Watch from the 3:25 mark.

  2. Tanker

    Tanker Archangels


    That is what it sounds like to me too. Odd. What an odd way of saying this.

    John 15:5 New International Version (NIV)

    5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

  3. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

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  4. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Pope Francis is unorthodox but what he said I find interesting even though it is hard to follow with the translator, if nothing else it gives us something to ask Jesus in meditation and to contemplate and discern. This relationship he speaks of reminds me of Matthew 13 when Jesus returned to the area of his home and taught in the synagogues and the people there heard him speak and said among themselves is this not the son of Joseph the carpenter? Where has he learned these things and how does he perform miracles? And Jesus performed very few miracles there because of their unbelief.

    They had little belief because they knew him and knew his training (or lack of it) and his family and it's modest status in the community. As a son of a carpenter he was not likely hanging out with up and coming sons of sages and pharisees outside of building something for them. If anything it was because they knew Him that they should have recognized that His teaching came from the Father and not from Pharisees or Sages. Men who at that time were teaching things such as that Jews could give money to the Temple (which they should have instead used to help their aging parents) and by doing so fulfilled the law to honor their parents. The Pharisees, while enriching themselves taught that by doing this instead the people were honoring the commandment to God in spite of their neglect. Jesus corrects them in Matthew 15 for this very offense.

    The miracles, they were possible in those few who were there and ready or actively remaining in him so as to bare fruit. They had Faith. They spent time contemplating the mysteries of God and cultivating a relationship with Him each day. A relationship in which God would prune them if they bare fruit.

    [54] And coming into his own country, he taught them in their synagogues, so that they wondered and said: How came this man by this wisdom and miracles? [55] Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude:
    [56] And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence therefore hath he all these things? [57] And they were scandalized in his regard. But Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. [58] And he wrought not many miracles there, because of their unbelief.
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  5. Jason Fernando

    Jason Fernando Principalities

    Another very confusing statement from Pope Francis...
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  6. bflocatholic

    bflocatholic Powers

    Clumsily expressed, perhaps, but I think that if one views the Pope's statement in light of St. Theresa of Avila's famous quote, it makes some sense:

    "Christ has no body now on earth but yours, no hands but yours, no feet but yours, yours are the eyes through which to look out Christ's compassion to the world, yours are the feet with which he is to go about doing good; yours are the hands with which he is to bless men now."
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  7. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I can see this.
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  8. AED

    AED Powers

    Not everything he says is wrong. Some things are "right on the money." I have to remind myself to avoid the temptation to dismiss what he says without reading it. A real fault of mine.
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  9. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I am not drawn to him, either.
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  10. Mario

    Mario Powers

    I think we have to be careful here. Pope Francis isn't contradicting his first sentence. In the second sentence he is looking at the other side of the coin. I'm sure at my particular judgment, there will painfully be shown to me any number of times when I was prompted to reach out in love; but I was too busy, too lazy, or didn't care for the person I was asked to help.:(

    Holy Spirit, please poke me a little more forcefully!
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  11. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

    Amen, agreed!
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  12. DaughterofLourdes

    DaughterofLourdes heart of my heart

    I'm distressed by the attacks on this Pope. He has made grievous errors, that's true; so have all of them, at one time or another. The "deposit of the faith is complete" ? Really? So, God's "hands are tied", huh? God can't act in His creation because WE say so. I don't think so. Everything and everyone is connected. Thoughts can be shared and there's nothing demonic about that. I can "communicate" with other life forms, it's part of my practice as a behaviorist! To deny this reality is basically turning's one back on God but oh boy wait until the "replies" pour in. I spent a couple of hours with an exorcist in Paris in 2013 and you'd be shocked at what really goes on in the world, and it's NOT demonic. AS an aside: recently in Antarctica physicists discovered a parallel universe GOING IN REVERSE in time/space. The "veil" is thinning. I think Francis is aware of that and I don't believe he is in any way equipped to deal with it. I can conjecture why that might be but it's not relevant. It's tragic to me how many people are talking about a discredited book (The Warning) and a priest of questionable authority (Michel Rodrigue) but have no problem judging the Pope. Do you know what is in his heart? I certainly don't. But I was in his presence September 2013 and there was nothing "false' about him at all. All of this, everything that is occurring, is going toward a particular "end" about which we know nothing.
  13. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    Whatever else about Pope Francis, there's no denying he has a certain appeal. He attracts all sorts to himself.
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  14. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Parallel universe!

    Communicate with other life forms!

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  15. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    I think this is what she's talking about:

    She seems to misunderstand that, although nothing ties God's hands, every Catholic including the Pope is obliged to conform to the Deposit of the Faith.

    I would be interested to know the circumstances of her being in the presence of Pope Francis about six months after his election.
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  16. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Ok interesting will have a look at that.

    But I'm also interested to know what she means about communicating with other lifeforms (terrestrial or extra terrestrial?)
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  17. Dolours

    Dolours Powers

    I didn't notice that. Maybe one of them was named Ezdra.

    Anyway, a parallel universe makes sense because ever since 2013 I've had the impression that the one inhabited by Pope Francis isn't the same as the one I'm living in.
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
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  18. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

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  19. DaughterofLourdes

    DaughterofLourdes heart of my heart

    Or what?

    Show me where Jesus talks about the "deposit of faith". Show me where I am "obliged to conform to the deposit of faith", chapter, verse. You do realize you are defining the reason for Sola Scriptura, right? The circumstances of my being in the presence of Pope France is general audience in Rome, Italy. I was there to observe him, to see if he is "for real".

    Someone wants to know if I communicate with extraterrestrials...not yet, but I'm curious since I actually DID SEE a "flying saucer" in broad daylight on Monday, November 19, 2012, over the NY State Thruway at about 11:50 AM while driving 65 mph in the right lane. YES I did! No I am not hallucinatory. It was enormous. It was stationary in the sky. I observed it for several minutes. It "dipped" left, right, and went into the only cloud bank in the sky that day and, later, I observed a commercial airliner ascending to cruising altitude near that cloud bank and that plane was TINY compared to that "UFO". YES I do communicate with TERRESTRIALS of all shapes and sizes, it's part of being a animal behaviorist, an intrinsic part, aside from book learning, experiential learning, a "sixth sense" if you will. SO did I communicate with THEM? I sure did! I wanted to know more! AND let me add, seeing something like that - obviously NOT man-made (in broad daylight over a Thruway?? Man-made? No) changes your paradigm. Did it shake me up? NO. Why? Because I already know God's creation contains things we cannot imagine and some of those things are right here on Earth! Everything is from God, everything in Creation. Parallel universes are included.

    I am not constrained by fear and whether or not you like it I have had profound experiences in my lifetime, unusual spiritual experiences, that are and were of God. If anyone reading this has the need to condemn me, judge me, it is their failure not my own. And that is one of the several serious issues "wrong" with the RCC.
  20. Catherine L

    Catherine L New Member

    Interpreters, translators, close captioning, sign language interpreters, transcribers, etc and etc.... though they provide these invaluable services; they're almost never 100% correct to the "T". Always gotta "read/hear" them carefully and expect a lot of human errors, typos, etc. It's challenging, alright!

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