Israelis coming to Christianity

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by Don_D, Aug 10, 2021.

  1. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    I have been following the efforts in Israel of fellow Christians to bring their fellow Jews to the truth of Jesus our messiah, I found this video very uplifting because apparently it is becoming such an issue that very famous rabbi's are actively refuting the new testament in public addresses via the internet etc in an effort to curb what is becoming quite the movement in Israel.

    Pray for them and the work they do!

    Jo M, Beth B, Mary's child and 6 others like this.
  2. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I visited this place, Ein Kerem, when I was in Jerusalem:)

    Congregation of Our Lady of Mount Zion, for converted Jews and for the conversion of the Chosen People.

    Very peaceful. Very prayerful.

    AED and Don_D like this.
  3. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    I am convinced, the veil is being lifted from the people of God. Another great sign of the times.

    AED likes this.
  4. AED

    AED Powers

    The perhaps biggest sign of the close return of Christ is the coming of the Jews to their true Messiah.
    PurpleFlower likes this.
  5. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Yes indeed. So we can expect that there will be a concerted effort to conceal this as much as possible as well as a fight from some among the orthodox especially and the secular as well to divide. Then at the appointed time a persecution the likes of which has never been seen.

    Mary's child and AED like this.
  6. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    An interesting article relating to this topic and regarding the Jewish rabbinic authority seeking an explanation for Pope Francis's remarks recently regarding the Torah which created quite the stir.

    Israel’s top Jewish religious authorities have told the Vatican they are concerned about comments that Pope Francis made about their books of sacred law and have asked for a clarification.

    In a letter seen by Reuters, Rabbi Rasson Arousi, chair of the Commission of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel for Dialogue with the Holy See, said the comments appeared to suggest Jewish law was obsolete.

    Vatican authorities said they were studying the letter and were considering a response.

    Rabbi Arousi wrote a day after the pope spoke about the Torah, the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, during a general audience on Aug. 11.

    The Torah contains hundreds of commandments, or mitzvot, for Jews to follow in their everyday lives. The measure of adherence to the wide array of guidelines differs between Orthodox Jews and Reform Jews.

    At the audience, the pope, who was reflecting on what St. Paul said about the Torah in the New Testament, said: “The law (Torah) however does not give life.

    “It does not offer the fulfilment of the promise because it is not capable of being able to fulfil it ... Those who seek life need to look to the promise and to its fulfilment in Christ.”

    Rabbi Arousi sent the letter on behalf of the Chief Rabbinate - the supreme rabbinic authority for Judaism in Israel - to Cardinal Kurt Koch, whose Vatican department includes a commission for religious relations with Jews.

    “In his homily, the pope presents the Christian faith as not just superseding the Torah; but asserts that the latter no longer gives life, implying that Jewish religious practice in the present era is rendered obsolete,” Arousi said in the letter.

    “This is in effect part and parcel of the ‘teaching of contempt’ toward Jews and Judaism that we had thought had been fully repudiated by the Church,” he said.

    Improved relations
    Relations between Catholics and Jews were revolutionised in 1965, when the Second Vatican Council repudiated the concept of collective Jewish guilt for the death of Jesus and began decades of inter-religious dialogue. Francis and his two predecessors visited synagogues.

    Two leading Catholic scholars of religious relations with Jews agreed that the pope’s remarks could be seen as a troublesome setback and needed clarification.

    “To say that this fundamental tenet of Judaism does not give life is to denigrate the basic religious outlook of Jews and Judaism.

    It could have been written before the Council,” said Father John Pawlikowski, former director of the Catholic-Jewish Studies Program at the Catholic Theological Union in Chicago.

    “I think it’s a problem for Jewish ears, especially because the pope’s remarks were addressed to a Catholic audience,” said Professor Philip Cunningham, director of the Institute for Jewish-Catholic Relations at St. Joseph’s University in Philadelphia.

    “It could be understood as devaluing Jewish observance of the Torah today,” Cunningham said.

    Arousi and Pawlikowski said it was possible that a least part of the pope’s teaching homily, known as a catechesis, was written by aides and that the phrase was not properly vetted.

    Koch’s office said on Wednesday he had received the letter, was “considering it seriously and reflecting on a response.”

    Francis has had a very good relationship with Jews. While still archbishop in native Buenos Aires, he co-wrote a book with one of the city’s rabbis, Abraham Skorka, and has maintained a lasting friendship with him.

    In his letter to Cardinal Koch, Arousi asked him to “convey our distress to Pope Francis” and asked for a clarification from the pope to “ensure that any derogatory conclusions drawn from this homily are clearly repudiated.”
  7. padraig

    padraig New Member

    If the Pope wants to close down the Ancient Mass he has the power to do so.

    We should resign ourselves in obedience to obey him in this.

    If he is right or wrong in so doing is quite another matter.

    Nevertheless we must and should obey him. He is Pope. No if's or but's .


    He is the Vicar of Christ.
    Byron, ellen, Don_D and 2 others like this.
  8. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    I found an interview with Father John Pawlikowski who is quoted in the article above that may shed some light on the request by the Rabbi's for clarification. I expect that this will lead to a conversation that I would like to read if it is published.

    I think that the changes by Pope Francis to summorum pontificum have more to do with this subject than some will admit. Of course Pope Francis has the authority to make these changes as other popes have done as well.
    I found it very interesting the comments made in the interview regarding the missal and prayers of Good Friday which are used in many latin rite parishes. I would not be surprised to see Pope Francis remove the Missal of 1962 from use and replace it with the 1970 missal.

    A Wiki article which goes over the changes to the Good Friday prayer over the last 100 or so years for those interested.
  9. Muzhik

    Muzhik Powers

    I recall reading that the Miracle at Garabandal will be the Shekinah Glory rising from the ground where the apparitions occurred, the sign that can be seen and photographed but not touched. One reason for this belief is that the region where Garabandal is, is populated by Jews who converted WILLINGLY to Christianity, and left Madrid and the other centers of Jewish life in Spain.
    Byron likes this.
  10. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    It seems the rabbi's have been given the answer to their concerns. Interesting that the Times of Israel keeps mentioning the prayers for the conversion of the Jews relating to the latin rite. I wonder, if Pope Benedicts resignation was pressure coming from outside influences. The Vatican bank shenanigans that took place at that time have always led me to think this was a part of it.

    Pope said to clarify comments on Jewish law were not disparaging
    Francis caused concern among Jewish officials when he said recently that the law of the Torah ‘does not give life’
    By TOI staff Today, 5:30 am

    Pope Francis has sought to assuage concerns over comments he made about Jewish law that some Jewish leaders viewed as disparaging, according to a new report.

    Reuters said Monday that the pope had conveyed to Israel’s chief rabbinate that he had not intended to be seen as passing judgment on the law of the Torah.

    Last month Francis caused consternation when he told an audience that the law of the Jewish Torah “does not give life, it does not offer the fulfillment of the promise because it is not capable of being able to fulfill it. The Law is a journey, a journey that leads toward an encounter… Those who seek life need to look to the promise and to its fulfillment in Christ.”

    Rabbi Ratzon Arusi, the chairman of the Israeli Chief Rabbinate’s Commission for Dialogue with the Holy See, sent a latter to the Vatican requesting clarification of the comments.

    “In his homily, the pope presents the Christian faith as not just superseding the Torah; but asserts that the latter no longer gives life, implying that Jewish religious practice in the present era is rendered obsolete,” Arusi reportedly wrote in the letter. “This is in effect part and parcel of the ‘teaching of contempt’ towards Jews and Judaism that we had thought had been fully repudiated by the Church.”

    According to Reuters, Cardinal Kurt Koch, who deals with religious relations with Jews, wrote to Arousi that the pope had not meant to pass judgment on Jewish law.

    The letter cited a 2015 quote from Francis that “The Christian confessions find their unity in Christ; Judaism finds its unity in the Torah.”

    The report also noted that in a blessing for the Jewish New Year this week, the pope said: “May the new year be rich with fruits of peace, and good for those who walk faithfully in the law of the Lord.”

    The use of the word law in the comment was intentional, according to Vatican and Jewish sources who spoke to Reuters.

    Koch’s office told Reuters on Wednesday that he had received the letter, and was “considering it seriously and reflecting on a response.”

    Francis has had a positive relationship with the Jewish community. In July he restricted the use of the Latin Mass, a form of the liturgy favored by traditionalist Catholics that calls for the conversion of the Jews and that until 2008 included a reference to Jewish “blindness.”
    AED likes this.
  11. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Funnily enough I agree with the Holy Father in this, although I was surprised that he said it.

    I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

    Romans 7
    Do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to men who know the law--that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives?
    For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage.
    So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.
    So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.
    For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, [1] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.
    But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
    What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." [2]
    But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead.
    Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.
    I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
    For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.
    So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
    Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
    We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
    I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
    And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
    As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
    I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. [3] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
    For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing.
    Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
    For in my inner being I delight in God's law;
    but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
    What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
    Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

    1. [5] Or the flesh; also in verse 25
    AED and Don_D like this.
  12. padraig

    padraig New Member

    If following the Law led to Life then what would have been the point of Christ...of a Saviour?
    Byron, AED and Don_D like this.
  13. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    I couldn't agree more padraig and I was surprised when he said this because it is such a sensitive topic. I hope some day the rabbi's also come to this understanding.
    padraig and AED like this.
  14. padraig

    padraig New Member

    Luke 2:34

    The Prophecy of Simeon
    …33The Child’s father and mother were amazed at what was spoken about Him. 34Then Simeon blessed them and said to His mother Mary: “Behold, this Child is appointed to cause the rise and fall of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, 35so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed—and a sword will pierce your soul as well.”…
    Muzhik, AED, Byron and 1 other person like this.
  15. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    This article has an interesting tie in to Mel Gibson's comments about the USCCB bishops who snubbed him when he approached them for input for his film The Passion. His depiction of the Sanhedrin is certainly what brought this on.
    The article is actually regarding the recent homily given by Pope Francis on the commandments of Moses which the chief rabbi asked for clarification.
  16. Whatever

    Whatever Archangels

    What a well written article. That kind of clarity is rare these days and entirely lacking in anything coming from St. Peter's successor. If only someone in the Pope's entourage had Brother Andre Marie's grasp of Catholic Doctrine and his ability to teach it. Best pray that Peter turns around before the cock crows because the Church (all of us) will be the victim of the next passion.
  17. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    During a meeting with Hungary's Ecumenical Council of Churches as well as several Jewish communities Sept. 12, Pope Francis highlighted the ongoing threat of anti-Semitism in Europe.

  18. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    It's funny, I have been thinking off and on about this whole rabbinic row with Pope Francis and it really comes down to the rabbi's not having an issue with Pope Francis's comments about a very basic christian theology that all Christians believe but the real issue here is that they take issue with what the bible itself says.
    Yet, they claim to base their beliefs off what is said in those 5 books which is clearly BS. Jesus called them out on it and nothing has changed all these years later.
    Mary's child and AED like this.

Share This Page