is Abp Vigano a Prophet for our time.

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by Julia, Dec 30, 2020.

  1. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    A must watch to understand what we are witnessing in the Roman Catholic Church since 2013

    Heavenly Father, I beg You for the sake of Your Only begotten Son; protect, preserve and save the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ on earth.

     
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  2. Te Deum

    Te Deum Archangels

    Wow much food for thought and a powerful witness. Maybe we are as well off we don't know the half of it :( I wasn't aware there's been no mass on the papal altar at St. Peter's since the pachamama desecration!
     
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  3. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

    I watched the Mass from Vatican on Christmas eve and I thought it was from the main altar in St Peters
     
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  4. FatimaPilgrim

    FatimaPilgrim Powers

    Vigano a prophet for our times? Is the Pope Catholic?

    The answer to both is of course no as prophets speak to what is to come. He speaks clearly on what has occurred. A very important distinction with a difference.

    But #Vigano is one of the few bishops speaking Truth in the growing darkness. I thank God for blessing us with Vigano, Burke, Schneider, et al to guide us through this diabolical confusion. They are not many in number, but they are enough.

    And I thank God for sending us the prophets we need who told us what is to come:

    “The church will become small and will have to start afresh more or less from the beginning.

    She will no longer be able to inhabit many of the edifices she built in prosperity. As the number of her adherents diminishes . . . she will lose many of her social privileges. . . As a small society, [the Church] will make much bigger demands on the initiative of her individual members….

    It will be hard-going for the Church, for the process of crystallization and clarification will cost her much valuable energy. It will make her poor and cause her to become the Church of the meek . . . The process will be long and wearisome as was the road from the false progressivism on the eve of the French Revolution — when a bishop might be thought smart if he made fun of dogmas and even insinuated that the existence of God was by no means certain . . . But when the trial of this sifting is past, a great power will flow from a more spiritualized and simplified Church. Men in a totally planned world will find themselves unspeakably lonely. If they have completely lost sight of God, they will feel the whole horror of their poverty. Then they will discover the little flock of believers as something wholly new. They will discover it as a hope that is meant for them, an answer for which they have always been searching in secret.

    And so it seems certain to me that the Church is facing very hard times. The real crisis has scarcely begun. We will have to count on terrific upheavals. But I am equally certain about what will remain at the end: not the Church of the political cult, which is dead already, but the Church of faith. She may well no longer be the dominant social power to the extent that she was until recently; but she will enjoy a fresh blossoming and be seen as man’s home, where he will find life and hope beyond death.”
     
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  5. Te Deum

    Te Deum Archangels

    I checked that out Maryrose and from npr.org
    'The Mass was celebrated in a smaller rear section of St. Peter's Basilica, and only 100 or so people were present, Reuters reported. In normal times without a pandemic, the Mass is celebrated in the main part of the basilica before some 10,000 people'.

    In video above they discuss at 29.30min mark.... it seems to be so, but the reasons behind it is open to interpretation I guess .....
     
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  6. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

  7. AED

    AED Powers

    Don this magazine is and has been "newchurch" for some time. They have an agenda too--they accuse EWTN but their slant is completely in the other direction. I think your charity toward the Pope is good and you remind me to be charitable too. But I have to raise a red flag about Commonweal.
     
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  8. AED

    AED Powers

     
  9. AED

    AED Powers

    Thank you for posting.
     
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  10. Isn’t concealment of one’s person a strategy for soldiers in a war? I do know that there is evidence of warrior bishops who actively fought battles in the Middle Ages. If Archbishop Vigano believes we are in a very palpable spiritual war against Modernism which is the synthesis of all heresies, and are in need of assistance from someone—himself— who is in a key position to do so, he can only do so if he is alive. For him to stay that way, he needs to keep himself concealed. He, in his authority as a bishop, has said so many things that have needed to be said. Obviously he, in calling the Pope by his former name as bishop, causes controversy. But remember that he only wants to be known as the Bishop of Rome by his own will. Vigano, by his choice of language, only highlights that fact.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2020
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  11. Julia likes this.
  12. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Thank you AED. Yes I know of them believe me and regardless of their well earned socialist reputation I think they have a valid point about all this and how it has been skewed. I am willing to consider it at any rate. Catholics are being manipulated by men like Vigano just as much as those who are pushing us in the other direction. Evangelical Christians are also being misled with women such as Mrs. White. We all know that Benedict has always chosen his words very carefully. He did not use wolves simply out of convenience. I think it would be wise to look to the fruits of what Vigano is speaking.
    A growing traditional movement within the church undoubtedly is beautiful and I have experienced it personally. What I can not look past however is an uprising seemingly uniquely within it of mostly young people blaming all those who came before them for the state of things in this world and with scathing vitriol for groups historically deemed the scourge of the earth. I myself considered this view for a time and thankfully God granted me eyes to see.
    Steve Skojek just yesterday ran into this phenomena on his Twitter account and was somewhat amazed by it. Most of us are unaware of it. This is not a small powerless group of people, they are politically as well as publicly active and attend the rallies which we have all seen violence erupting from.
    I see it in many people in South America who I follow on social media and as well in groups here in the US who are using the election chaos and division to continue to grow their support and spread this poison. They are very careful about letting the mask slip but occasionally it does. They are not rudderless. They have leaders who they lionize and are working very hard to propel into positions of power.

    There is harsh language in these twitter threads. Steve rightly has little patience for them.

    https://twitter.com/SteveSkojec/status/1344506341302235138

    https://twitter.com/Nose_Busters/status/1344500804573605889

    The Knight's of Malta affair opened my eyes as well to the men inside the Churches ancient and powerful organizations and their allegiances. Pope Francis was very astute in his dealing with them. Wikileaks exposed this with the published personal letters of Pope Francis.

    https://wikileaks.org/popeorders/

    With Trump exposing and destroying the liberal as well as conservative movements in America it has created the opportunity for the political rise of people such as these and there is a burning hatred in their hearts. We all should remember that when America sees profound political change the world always follows.
     
  13. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Yes, in some cases certainly but in a war against the Pope? War against the man that Pope Benedict must have known would succeed him in his abdication? I know men like Vigano carefully couch their accusations in language such as"modernism" etc but it is plainly evident where his arrows are carefully aimed. Are we to think that Pope Francis is going to mimic Peron and send his brother Jesuit assassins to eliminate AB Vigano? Maybe he would send Fr Martin perhaps?
    This too brings light to the Saint Gallan Mafia and the accusation that Pope Francis was "installed" into the papacy by a group of devious plotters. Again, it was intrigue that led the way into scandalizing and the character assassination of this pope from the very beginning. It has done it's work.
    I hope that you don't think that I am making light of this Advocata Nostra because it is very serious. I only wish to point out that it is by leveraging intrigue that Vigano from the very beginning gave an air of credibility to his claims. Is this the sign of the coming of a man who lays down his life for the church?
    I don't have any issue with Vigano calling Pope Francis the Bishop of Rome. Pope Francis himself wishes this. Pope Francis has declined to use titles such as Vicar of Christ which ought to have given all of us pause to reflect on the nature of these titles themselves, the structure of these titles, where they originated from, and why they are still used, as well as why he would deliberately choose not to use them while leading the church of Jesus. Instead of this I had the knee jerk reaction of most people.
    It is because of this Pope and his declining such things from the very start that the wolves who fight like dogs for honors such as this in the sight of men viciously attack both him and the church. Men who wish for such things wish to dominate mankind and even the souls of men. Consider this, when the prince of this world publicly arrives will he claim every title of authority and honor? We all know to what end.
     
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  14. I do not think you take this lightly, Don, and I did read what you’ve just written.
    I will only say that I gave the Pope every benefit of the doubt at the beginning. There were things that started to stand out but I told myself to just give it time. It must just be his personal style, etc. People must be misreading him, etc. Well, soon enough, other Princes of the Church began to speak up and we all know the history of how that was received by the Pope. And now, I never thought I would say this in my life, but I pray for his conversion. I also believe there is a strong possibility that once I am long gone, he may be declared a heretical pope. The decisions he has made for the church, one after another after another after another, hurt me to the core. He has given his support to the Abrahamic Family House in Abu Dabi. That speaks volumes as this is key for a future one-world religion. I read Church teaching. That is a foundation to usher in Antichrist. Archbishop Vigano did not have to tell me that one. I wish NONE of this was true. But it is and it is a jagged and poisonous pill to swallow.
     
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  15. Byron

    Byron Powers

    Praying we are proved wrong. But I am too praying for his conversion.
     
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  16. PS- I never ever insinuated that the Pope would hire assassins to knock off the Archbishop. He wouldn’t need to do that at all. There are plenty other powerful men at the Vatican, no doubt, who could arrange that rather easily out of possibly their own desires to silence him. I pray that never happens.
     
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  17. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    I know you didn't and I apologize if that was how it was taken. I meant of course AB Vigano. He is the one who plants this seed in the minds of people.
     
  18. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    You are absolutely correct in your promptings, we have misread him and pitifully so IMO. It is far too early to know the fruit of this agreement at Abu Dabi so we should give it time before judging what does not exist. Reaching out our hand to others and seeking to better understand one another is not the same as the mystery religion that will rise up. Not even remotely so. We will see clear signs of that if it becomes part of this agreement.
     
  19. But see, I’m glad you mentioned seed-planting to allow me to say that what I saw were the seeds first being planted by other worthy bishops earlier on. But, from my vantage point, they were seeds of hard-hitting truth. Then Vigano opened his own pack of seeds and shone a sun lamp on them.

    Honestly, I would like to be wrong but am thinking I’m not, or I wouldn’t be risking writing this.
     
  20. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Yes, I like to think I understand completely because I too saw the same things and reasoned the same regarding them. Much of that was expressed here on MoG. I also then felt the promptings from time to time but I could not ignore what was taking place. It was of course all incredibly confusing to me at times and I thought AB Vigano was doing what others should have but possibly did not have the courage.
    I was very mistaken. To their credit the cardinals and bishops who spoke out knew the limits of their authority and took actions that were not completely out of character given their positions. They did not persist however AB Vigano on the other hand has way overplayed his hand and now is further attaching himself to planting seeds in the minds of American Catholics regarding this election chaos.
    He reminds me somewhat of the recent Cardinal who is suing the Italian newspaper for publishing his Vatican banking exploits. Thus hurting his chances of becoming pope.
    I admire your honesty and I hope you will remember me in your prayers.
     
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