Is this "The End Times" as some Protestants believe, i.e. - Rise of the The False Prophet, The Beast, the Mark of the Beast, the Rapture (all believers), Unfurling of the Seven Seals & The Great Tribulation (of 7 years' duration), Christ's physical return after all that is done, establishment of a New Earth & New Jerusalem... ...or is it "merely" a bad period we're currently in, which will ultimately work out in our favor with Earthly life resuming in a more stable & secure fashion? I seem to read both scenarios into discussions here. My apologies if I've misread or misunderstood.
There won't be any Rapture of the "Left Behind variety" where believers are whisked off the earth to avoid the final tribulation. I think that different members here have different opinions of what is happening in the world. Most seem to be of the opinion that we are about to undergo or perhaps are in the early stages of a chastisement as foretold in some Catholic prophecies. I can only speak for myself and in all honesty I'm not really sure. I think that a chastisement could be imminent but am somewhat sceptical about it especially when anyone suggests that the result will be a conversion of the world and a period of perfect peace and tranquillity. I can't see how that fits with what Jesus said about the wheat and tares growing alongside each other until the end. Four things must happen before the end of the world (probably more but these four should be the easiest to recognise and they have yet to be fulfilled): 1. The Gospel will be preached to the ends of the earth 2. There will be a great apostasy 3. The persecution of the Church (there have been persecutions since the beginning of the Church but the final persecution will be on a global scale) 4. The conversion of the Jews (we don't know whether this will happen before the rise of the AC). I'm more inclined to the view that the Great Apostasy won't happen overnight. It seems to me that there's a pattern that the Gospel is preached, nations convert and eventually become lukewarm or embrace heresy before apostatising. There are parts of the world where the Gospel has not yet been preached and also regions where the people are fairly new to the Faith and haven't yet been tested by the kind of materialism, hedonism, and self-idolatry which has infected what once was Christendom. If that pattern is to be repeated in the rest of the world, it could be generations or centuries before the rise of the False Prophet. For the Biblical "Man of Sin" or AntiChrist to have the kind of power he is expected to wield, he would have to be the head of some super-power - perhaps a militarised form of a UN type organisation, ruling with the consent of maybe federalised regions (e.g. federalist Africa, Europe, Asia, North and South America, etc. all ceding power to the globalist body). While that type of super-power seems to be the vision of the globalists, I can't see it happening in my lifetime unless it were preceded by a third world war. So, we could be on the brink of a chastisement or we could be seeing the beginning of the Great Apostasy in our part of the world as the Faith spreads in Africa and Asia. What matters is that we keep ourselves in a state of Grace. St. Peter's epistles, especially the second one, are warning enough for us without trying to figure out which parts of Revelation have already come to pass, which are happening now and which are yet to come. I'm sorry if that's not very helpful. No doubt others who are better informed about prophecy will chime in with their own views of where we're at.
DS7, I agree with a lot of what Dolours has stated but I believe that we are currently witnessing the culmination of the minor apostasy, then we should experience a period of peace spoke of by Our Lady of Fatima and then the time of the Antichrist/Major Apostasy hopefully after a long age of peace but no one is certain about how long it will last. In addition, imho this fits very well with what Our Lady of Garabandal stated to the seers. I hope that the following helps you a little more, I copied it from Catholic Answers https://forums.catholic.com/t/the-a...ntures-apocalyptic-theology-of-history/435903 and I just realized that many of the posts in that discussion are from a MOG member called Vouthon, wow. Everything following that is indented is from that discussion on Catholic Answers: He [St. Bonaventure] contended that we were going through a long ‘minor tribulation’ characterised by seemingly widespread, not to mention pervasive, decline and stagnation of the One True Faith but which would eventually witness the beginnings of a great renewal as well, heralding the transition to a better “age” for the Church. After the said “tribulation” or “minor apostasy”, he thought the Church would enjoy a “Sabbath rest” in which she - and by extension the world - would be more closely conformed to the Church Triumphant in heaven than ever before. An era of peace, in other words. This would - or rather ‘will’ if you adopt his schema - be brought to an end by the advent of Antichrist. EWTN refers to this “schema” too: ewtn.com/expert/answers/endtimes.htm 3 [This link is not working but I happened to copy it's contents on the forum awhile ago here #16 .] **As Cardinal Ratzinger recently pointed out (in the context of the message of Fátima), we are not at the end of the world. In fact, the Second Coming (understood as the physical return of Christ) cannot occur until the full number of the Gentiles are converted, followed by “all Israel.” Approved Catholic mystics (Venerables, Blessed and Saints, approved apparitions) throw considerable light on this order, by prophesying a minor apostasy and tribulation toward the end of the world, after which will occur the reunion of Christians. Only later will the entire world fall away from Christ (the great apostasy) and the personal Antichrist arise and the Tribulation of the End occur. Although this is not Catholic doctrine, arising as it does from private revelation, it conforms to what is occurring in our time, especially in light of Our Lady of Fátima’s promise of an “Era of Peace.” This "Triumph of the Immaculate Heart"would seem to occur prior to the rise of the Antichrist. The optimism of the Pope for the “New Evangelization” and a “Civilization of Love” in the Third Millennium of Christianity fits here, as well. This would place us, therefore, in the period just before the events spoken of in the Catechism, that is, on the verge of the evangelization of the entire world. ** As indicated in the foregoing, this essentially relates to the “peace” promised by Our Lady of Fatima (the peace to be expected once Russia has become consecrated to her immaculate heart). One can see the exact same sequence of future (hypothesized) events reflected in the prophecies of any church-approved visionaries, such as Venerable Bartholomew Holzhauser in his Commentary on the Apocalypse that was first published in 1646: latinritemass.org/bartholomew-holzhauser/apocalypse/ 1 **This is a state of trouble, desolation, humiliation, and poverty for the church. We may with just reason call it a state of purification, in which the Lord Jesus Christ has sifted His wheat, and will sift it again by wars, by seditions, by famines, by epidemics, and other scourges, by the tribulation and the poverty which He will suffer to weigh on the Latin church… We shall see kingdom rise against kingdom; empires will be divided in themselves, and brought to desolation; principalities and monarchies will be overturned, and almost the whole world will sink into poverty. The greatest desolation will reign over the earth…Every one, like the beasts of the field, believes what he pleases, and doth what he wills. The correspondence of this period with the fifth age of the ancient world, from Solomon down to the Babylonian captivity, is extremely striking… The succeeding period of the church the (status consolationis)—time of “CONSOLATION” begins with the Holy Pope and the Powerful Emperor, and terminates with the birth of Antichrist. (Revelations, 3: 7, 10.) This will be an age of solace, wherein God will console His church after the many mortifications and afflictions she had endured in the fifth period. For all nations will be brought to the unity of the true Catholic faith… The spread of the church over all countries will take place by the instrumentality of this Strong Monarch, and before the destruction of the world, Christianity will be preached to all nations of the earth; as this is foretold in Matthew 24:4; in Isaiah 2:2; and in Micheas (Micah) 4:2. To this wide diffusion of Christianity allusion is made, when John is obliged to measure the temple of God.(Apocalypse 11:1). A type of this period was the sixth age of the old world, from the deliverance of the Israelites out of the Babylonian captivity, and the rebuilding of the city and of the temple of Jerusalem, down to the coming of Christ…God pour out upon His church, that witnessed in the fifth period nought be affliction, the most abundant consolations… All nations will come, and will worship the Lord in the one true Catholic Faith. Many righteous men will flourish, and many learned men will arise. Men will love justice and righteousness, and peace will dwell on the whole earth. For the Omnipotent will bind Satan for many years, until the advent of him who is to come,–the son of perdition.** [My emphasis added. You can see that Ven. Holzhauser does not state that all men will love justice and righteousness but many. So, imho, during the period of peace promised by Our Lady of Fatima we will experience the reverse of what we are witnessing currently. The majority of humankind will once again understand what constitutes a sin. They will not stop sinning entirely, of course, but most will repent when they do sin and sin itself will no longer be paraded as if it is ok the way that we see today.] I personally subscribe to this eschatological “perspective”; albeit not so much in terms of the specific details as in the overall “schema” described. To me it is intellectually satisfying and gives our species a ray of hope - hope for a limited, temporal peace even on earth that foreshadows the Eternal Banquet of the Lamb at the end of time. I would also like to suggest that you read Desmond Birch's book, "Trial, Tribulation and Triumph: Before, During and After the Antichrist". Imho, Mr. Birch did a brilliant job of studying many, many approved Catholic prophecies and was able to put a very good chronology of events preceding the time of the Antichrist. I think that it would make a great Christmas gift for anyone who is interested in reading about the end times https://www.ewtnreligiouscatalogue.com/trial-tribulation-and-triumph/p/BKTHE02732 . Edited to add: I agree with Dolours that what matters the most for us is to be in a state of grace but since we discuss so many prophecies on the forum and many of which are not approved as of yet, I believe that it is good to take a look at the various approved prophecies about the end times to help us discern the new unapproved prophecies if we are interested in such.
If from Revelation satan is thrown down to hell for (1000 years) a time period before being let loose again then clearly there is a time of rest or Triumph of The Immaculate Heart of Mary at some point. This clearly hasn't happened yet. If this time period does not include the influence of satan and the fallen angels then, although not heaven would certainly be quite peaceful and likely be the time of Thy Will Be Done on Earth as it is in Heaven. The question is, when this happens is this Jesus' 2nd coming or simply a time of spiritual renewal or 7th day rest? Is the true 2nd coming of Christ AFTER satan is let loose again longer in the future? Is there really going to be a spiritual illumination of conscience that we may all live through? I don't think anyone really knows for sure. Everyone seems to think this is happening in a matter of a few years. I sure hope it does really happen and soon. The only thing I believe is if God doesn't step in and the course of the world continues on it's current path almost everyone will be lost in another a few generations. (20-50 years maybe) . Also, the financial system the whole world relies on is a ponzi scheme and must collapse at some point. Many people may regain their faith when even the basics of food, water, shelter are all we can focus on and governments can't help us. One thing that is 100% certain, there is no rapture. That is nonsense. If one is taken and one is left it won't be the faithful taken to heaven but the enemies of God taken to hell. This seems to be the 3 days of darkness, if true. Even the event purifying the earth during a 3 days of darkness I am not certain is really going to happen. And if it does is this happening in a few years or 100 years? You just helped me realize I have no idea either! It still comes down to the simple things we've been taught regardless of how things happen.
Late afternoon. Everyone's input carefully read. Thank you for taking the time to type all that out! I am somewhat familiar with Our Lady of Fatima's prophecies. Must remind myself (other parts of the world pointed out) that some are just coming to Christ while we (in the West) are in real trouble. I try not to get "tunnel vision" in that regard, but it's difficult (I'm not well traveled besides). The Rapture...that is a highly favored Evangelical belief as you all likely know. It was repeatedly and intensively emphasized in sermons especially in my growing-up years. My sister and I became almost terrified of "being Left Behind." Will check the Catholic Answers link and seek to borrow a copy of Desmond Birch's book. I am obviously quite ignorant of Catholic beliefs in this regard. I grew up being rather overwhelmed by Evangelical horror scenarios pertaining to all this, became VERY tired (kid/teen) of being made scared & anxious; for years after I didn't give "it" much thought. So when all the current "stuff" began in earnest (unavoidable awareness), I was NOT happy. I do NOT want to go through Evangelical End Times. It took me nearly two years to come to terms with "Well if it happens, it happens" fatalistic grimness. But as I've been reading at this board, I see other interpretations. So I'm keeping this in Our Lord's hands of course, but you all have provided me a measure of comfort in your thoughtful and generous replies. Thank you again.
Boy, do I hear you with this statement. I especially disdain those who try to profit monetarily from the anxiety of believers.
Brian, Thank you. I want to point out again that most of my post comes from Catholic Answers Forum from, I believe, a member of ours called Vouthon. I was looking for a site with Venerable Holzhauser's Seven Ages of the Church that I could post and remarkably I came across that thread. I agree with it very much also. Thanks again.
I'll have to take time to review that thread of Carol's from Catholic Answers. O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
Very Briefly This age is indeed coming to an end. Jesus shall return and set everything new. We shall not know the day and hour. Our most important task is to always be ready. That's more important than knowing the sequence of events which precede Jesus's second coming. Yes faith shall be attacked and it helps to know the signs Jesus gave us for the purpose of not losing faith. Already we hear of a loss of faith. I believe a great falling away has already begun. I believe it began to show its face in the 1960's when as Pope Benedict XVI recently wrote that sexual abuses in seminaries began to fester. This was followed by abuses of liturgy and theology which caused and still causes much disruption. The Catholic catechism does not teach of "life resuming in a more stable & secure fashion." The Church's ultimate trial 675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576 676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,577 especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.578 677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.581 574 Cf. Lk 18:8; Mt 24:12. 575 Cf. Lk 21:12; Jn 15:19-20. 576 Cf. 2 Thess 2:4-12; 1 Thess 5:2-3; 2 Jn 7; 1 Jn 2:18,22. 577 Cf. DS 3839. 578 Pius XI, Divini Redemptoris, condemning the "false mysticism" of this "counterfeit of the redemption of the lowly"; cf. GS 20-21. 579 Cf. Rev 19:1-9. 580 Cf Rev 13:8; 20:7-10; 21:2-4. 581 Cf. Rev 20:12 2 Pet 3:12-13.
