If You Can’t Say Anything Nice…

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by BrianK, Jul 26, 2016.

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  1. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member


    "In the following, we propose to show how Fernández describes the method of operation of the Pope Francis apparatus [or “Nomenklatura?”] with regard to changing the culture, the mentality and the praxis of the Catholic Church. On May 10, 2015, the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera had published an interview with Archbishop Victor Fernández.

    This interview immediately caused a stir in Rome because it turned out to be a more-or-less direct attack on the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller. “Catholics know from reading the Gospel that it was to the Pope and the bishops that Christ granted a special governance and enlightenment — and not to a prefect or some other structure,” Fernández said. “When one hears such things, one could almost get the impression that the pope is merely their representative [i.e., a representative of the Curia itself] or that the pope is one who has come to disturb and must, therefore, be [himself] monitored.” This criticism aims unmistakably at Cardinal Müller and his prominent official remarks that his duty as the head of the CDF is “to provide the theological structure of a pontificate.” Vatican Insider journalist Andrea Tornielli had himself previously and quite sharply rebuked Cardinal Müller for his public remarks.

    Archbishop Fernández puts it bluntly in the 10 May interview he gave about the papal concept of reform: “The pope first filled St. Peter’s square with crowds and then began changing the Church.” When asked whether the Pope is isolated in the Vatican, he responds: “By no means. The people are with him [Pope Francis], and not with his adversaries.”

    The 53-year-old archbishop then added: “The pope goes slow because he wants to be sure that the changes have a deep impact. The slow pace is necessary to ensure the effectiveness of the changes. He knows there are those hoping that the next pope will turn everything back around. If you go slowly it’s more difficult to turn things back.” The interviewer then proceeded to ask him whether it does not help his adversaries when they know that Pope Francis says that his papacy might be short. Fernández answered: “The pope must have his reasons, because he knows very well what he’s doing. He must have an objective that we don’t understand yet. You have to realize that he is aiming at reform that is irreversible. If one day he should sense that he’s running out of time and doesn’t have enough time to do what the Spirit is asking him, you can be sure he will speed up.”
  2. padraig

    padraig New Member

    It seems plain enough she is telling the truth.:)
  3. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    I agree Francis did not invent Mercy. God did. Jesus emphasised it. And Francis in this time follows Jesus very closely.

    One of my ancestors was part of a two ship expedition to discover the North West passage. When the leading ship got stuck in the ice its captain made it a priority to rescue the silverware. As a result many lives were lost and the expedition eventually failed.

    Captain Crozier narrowly missed completing his mission and when his ship was trapped it is said the crew ate each other to prolong life.

    So I hope neither of us scrambles to rescue chalices or ciboriums but hold fast to The Truth and be a sign of hope for others through the storm and the rescue as Charlie woukd say. Lets make sure we don't feed on anything but The Truth.

    No spin is needed on The Pope of Mercy. This is what he is. The Church has taught truth for 2000 years and has been right in this. Francis continues in this Tradition. Francis does not need to justify himself. He is justified in his Mercy.

    He does not obfuscate. The vast majority of Catholics are clear about what he is saying. Thank God that not many know about this forum. What a scandal it is.

    Only the clever clogs will remember Francis as your 'Pope of Maybe.' And I doubt there will be much ice in their place of memory. I hope you are not counted in their number. Thank God for my simple mind.

    Talk about spin. In the words of the old Eagles song "Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy" It is your own spinning wheels that are out of control creating a dust storm that hides the true meaning of Mercy and drowns the words of Wisdom as preached by Pope Francis.

    There is a memorial statue to Captain Crozier in his hometown of Banbridge, Northern Ireland. He was born on 16 August 1796. His first name was Francis.
  4. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    So this article acknowledges Pope Francis is being directed by The Holy Spirit.
  5. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    That's the only thing you acknowledge or take away from that article?!? That a documented liberal like Fernandez says the pope is "guided by the Holy Spirit" while he promotes admitting grave sinners in irregular unions to Holy Communion?

    The pope's documented errors on grave matters are putting many eternal souls at risk, rightfully upsetting Catholics who know and defend the Faith. If we're upset, think how angry this must make Our Father, and the consequences to the world and the Church because of His righteous indignation.

    One can pretend that the clear meaning of the pope's words mean something else entirely, that it's just a case of "faulty understanding" by those who see the clear and obvious words he uses or the heterodoxy of those he advances, one can deny that "personnel is policy" or avoid the thruth altogether by refusing to read anything that questions their rose colored interpretation of what is transpiring, or abuse an Ignore button so they do not have to deal with reality or have their "peace" disturbed, or they can blame it all on media spin and mistranslations.

    But at some point, God knows their claims of "ignorance" in the face of what is transpiring is an attempt by otherwise good Catholics at Normalcy Bias and denial at best, and for many the claims of invincible ignorance becomes vincible in the face of so many obvious data points.

    In other words, continuing this charade becomes culpable, and for some, gravely so.

    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
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  6. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    The clever clogs, Joe, are the German Bishops who let it be known that Synod or no Synod they would be going their own way. http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/german-bishops-we-are-not-just-a-subsidiary-of-rome/ They couldn't get a two-thirds majority at the Synod, but the Pope fixed it for them with Amoris Laetitia. Looks like those German Bishops (not to mention their sackloads of Euros) carry a lot of clout with Pope Francis.

    Which is a greater scandal: giving an honest assessment of the Pope's public statements on a not very prominent Catholic website or declaring to the whole world the "good" of homosexual unions, the fidelity in an adulterous union, saying that God confers His grace on an unmarried couple living as husband and wife, or giving the Blessed Eucharist to people who don't believe in transubstantiation, the dogma of the Immaculate Conception or papal infallibility?

    It doesn't matter anyway, because a future Pope could change all that, depending on pressures from the prevailing secular culture. Truth these days is whatever some clever theologian from a wealthy diocese wants it to be. Might as well save the chalice and ciborium because we'll need something to hold the Source and Summit of the Faith when the mercy brigade have abandoned it after it has served their purpose.

    Looks like Martin Luther was a good guy all along. http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/new...as-a-teacher-of-the-faith-say-german-bishops/
    "In an interview with CNS, the ecumenical commission’s deputy chairman, Bishop Heinz Algermissen of Fulda, said Catholic-Lutheran ties had improved since the Second Vatican Council, but that churches must work for “visible unity, not just reconciled diversity.”

    “This means not only praying together, but meeting the challenge of speaking with one voice as Christians when we are all challenged by aggressive atheism and secularism, as well as by [radicalised] Islam. Otherwise we will lose more and more ground,” he said.

    Thank God previous popes had a bit more backbone, otherwise we could be in Communion with all the heretical sects that cropped up over the years with Catholicism meaning anything we want it to mean - a smorgasbord of religions. No doubt all those heretics considered themselves "religious pathfinders, gospel witnesses and teachers of the faith" but faithful bishops were willing to sacrifice their lives to stand up for the Truth. Since when have we had to whitewash heretics because we're afraid that God's Truth isn't enough to see us through hard times? St. Peter also knew something about boats and the sea. He even managed to walk on water when he put his trust in Jesus.

    Pope John Paul 11 scuppered the schemes of the reformers within our own Church to ordain women. Looks like they will get what they wanted after all, except that Catholic women seeking ordination will be channeled towards the Lutherans. On a brighter note, we might be able to offload some of our homosexual priests who fancy getting married.

    Will this generation's failure to see what's happening right before our eyes result in future generations "taking" Communion from married homosexual "priests" of either gender (presuming the term "gender" hasn't been consigned to the dustbin) at a Lutheran/Catholic Mass? That warning you are expecting can't come soon enough.

    I'll leave you to it, Joe and hope you aren't holding your breath waiting for Pope Francis to proclaim the fifth Marian Dogma. It might make things a little awkward for the Germans.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2016
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  7. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    That's the Brian I know and for some strange reason hold in great affection. I realize I don't really know you but I feel I do. God bless you - and put you right!
  8. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    Stuff the Germans - but not the good ones here on MOG. One is going to be praying for me and my mum during his forthcoming trip to Garabandal.
  9. Sorrowful Heart

    Sorrowful Heart Principalities

    Please tell me Joe, where do you stand on co-habitation?
  10. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    Fortunately he has. Earlier in this papacy, I was where you are now - trying to defend the indefensible. But then I was corrected by men far holier, and far more qualified to address this difficult subject, than myself.

    I like you and sincerely hope you won't defend these errors, and thus endanger immortal souls, until after its too late.
  11. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

  12. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    Please be more specific SH
  13. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    Ah well it looks like we shall both be saved - for persevering in the truth as we each see it.
    "I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the law or written in the prophets, 15 having a hope in God which these themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. 16 So I always take pains to have a clear conscience toward God and toward men. " Acts 24;16
  14. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    Who are you to think you can correct our Pope? Yours is the greater scandal. Speak for yourself Dolours - this is not my Catholic faith nor my hope nor the Church that I love and I sincerely hope that very very few people share this vision of yours. I hope that none who read this mistake your vision as Catholic. Thank God this forum is in the death throes of Francophobia - sadly the struggle may go on for a long time yet. If you have read my previous post you will have seen that I have spoken face to face with clergy against Luther. Luther decimated and divided the Church - Francis is rebuilding and drawing those lost to Luther back into the fold. I am not afraid and Francis is not afraid. No whited sepulchers here, just lots of mud throwing from the likes of you. What a disgusting presentation of our Faith you offer... female and homosexual priests. Yuk yuk yuk. Obscene. Since you ask, yours is the greater scandal.
  15. Sorrowful Heart

    Sorrowful Heart Principalities

    Do you believe that co-habitation is a mortal sin?
  16. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    Are you really being honest in your reading of the above quote of Francis?
  17. Sorrowful Heart

    Sorrowful Heart Principalities

    this forum is dying from being afraid of the french?
  18. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    If deliberately and carelessly done with full knowledge that it gravely offends God then yes. You seem like one of those pharisees who tried to trap Jesus;.
  19. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    Its a play on the word.
  20. Sorrowful Heart

    Sorrowful Heart Principalities

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