If You Can’t Say Anything Nice…

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by BrianK, Jul 26, 2016.

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  1. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Yes, Joe, there will be a schism but the schismatics won't be those asking Pope Francis to speak clearly on matters of faith and morals. The schismatics (including Cardinals, Bishops and Priests) will be those who believed that Pope Francis gave the nod to common law marriage, homosexual relationships, lifelong marriage being too heavy a burden for the faithful, artificial birth control, all religions being the same, etc., etc. When we actually get a Pope whose yes means yes and no means no, they will be like rats deserting a sinking ship, and most likely collegiality will have developed to the stage where they will take half the ship's stores with them, leaving the poor Church for the poor.
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  2. Elly

    Elly New Member

  3. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I don't think ,when it comes to a point that it is a matter of anyone, 'Abandoning Pope Francis'. If only it were so simple. My concern would be that Pope Francis , together with a coterie of Cardinals wrapped round him is abandoning orthodoxy. That he is abandoning us, rather than we him.

    The idea that a Pope can do wrong is simply not Catholic teaching, far from it.

    Sigh, but I am not getting into this again. I can see some folks do have the fixed idea that a Pope can do no wrong and to say he may do wrong is the equivalent of trying to blow up the Vatican.
  4. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    Hi there Dolours

    Thanks for even going to the trouble of responding. I kind of just expected a folding of the arms and a rolling of the eyes accompanied by a great sigh with the think bubble saying "Here we go again - Joe and his friend Francis who can do no wrong." So I consider myself let off lightly in your comment. I wish I had more time to study and read in a way that would make my comments more beneficial to the forum but for the most part I have to rely on the Faith that I already know and trust that our Holy Father will adhere to that in essence of principle and practice.

    I no longer hope primarily for change in anyone else but me. I am sure some here hope for a change in me :) I don't really aim to change those opinions expressed here about Pope Francis that differ to those of mine. If by some outlandish chance they do change than that will be a bonus. That having been said neither will I sit silent in the face of opposition. I will stand up for my pope.

    As you know I believe that the only stance worth taking with regard to our present Pope is one of 100% support. I take this stance because I believe, rightly or wrongly, that his election was truly Inspired and that his every word and action carries the message of Jesus Christ - the message of God's mercy without which none of us can be saved. Because of this I look for the good in everything he does and says. Because of that I do not see any of the bad that others attribute to his pontificate. I still do not assent to being called a positivist because I apply my God given reason to my comments. Positivism implies a sort of mindless loyalty - like that of a faithful Labrador. If for nothing else - although I believe there will be much else - our Holy Father will be remembered as The Pope of Mercy having instituted the Year of Mercy and the Doors of Mercy as a fitting entry to the End of Times in which we are now located. His appointment is no accident. It is ordained by God.

    I am not quite sure what you mean in your comment, Dolours, but what I mean is that those who now oppose Pope Francis and who chose to reject the way he exercises his Office and leave the Church under his leadership and take others with them are the schismatics. How can it be otherwise - schismatics have always been those who have opposed the Pope and left the Church to set up their version of the faith. So looking back on your comment (remember I am at the end of a very hard days work) I think we are diametrically opposed in our views.

    I am no theologian much less mystic but I am convinced in my heart that the heart of Francis is the heart of a mystic and theologian and is in the right place: - the Hearts of Jesus and Mary - and that his modus operandi is unique in the history of the Church - as was that of St Ignatius who encouraged growth through a personal rather than prescribed relationship with Jesus. Like Francis, he kept it real. How often we hear the comment that Pope Francis seems to be more in touch. I trust in the way that Francis works. If one examines his ministry of Mercy it becomes apparent that the pope is appealing first to Catholics to come back - with all their hearts. This reflects the strategy of the gospels that first appealed to the Jews, rather than the gentiles, to return to God with all their hearts, not in the legalistic way of their leaders but in the new way of the Spirit, the new way of Life. "Your fathers said "An eye for an eye - I say, bless your enemies." This was radical. In this way Jesus took an axe to parasitical roots that were doing nothing but drawing water from the ground faith rather than providing the Tree with the Water of Life. Just so Francis is taking the axe to those attitudes and actions that have stunted growth in the Church and threatened death by asphyxiation.The fires of hell have burned up the oxygen that should have supplied the Body of the Church.

    By appealing first to Catholics Francis is preparing the Church for the great initial influx that will follow the Warning. Remember - he knows the date of the Miracle so he knows the Warning is near. This appeal also gives an example of conversion to non-Catholics that will assure them they are heading in the right direction. "Who am I to judge" will undergo a metamorphosis of appreciation in the years to come.

    At this stage I see in my "Alerts" that Padraig has also responded. I have not read his response. I have been on the go for 12 hours so don't have much energy left. I am tired but better have a wee look - Ahh....... that is reassuringly more predictable - more what I expected. Just look on me as a wee cross sent to bring you closer to Jesus, Padraig. Of course Popes can do wrong. That is abundantly evident in history. It goes without saying but you had to say it. And I have to say this again: the Pope cannot teach error in matters of faith and morals. That is Catholic teaching. Your concern has no basis in truth. Francis has been totally orthodox in his teaching and can only be faulted by faulty reading.

    I finish with the most recent comment for public consumption reputedly made by Conchita of Garabandal, "You can hold opinions about the Pope, you can even criticize him, but salvation is in his hands." We are free to believe or disbelieve, to agree or disagree, to accept or reject, to support or oppose. What a responsibility.
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  5. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    "Where there is no hatred of heresy, there is no holiness.
    A man, who might be an apostle, becomes a fester in the Church for the want of this righteous indignation."

    An inability to identify error, or refusal to do so, doesn't excuse someone from this statement.
  6. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    St John Oglilvie asked from the scaffold for the prayers of true Catholics but said "the prayers of heretics I will not have."
    May I ask from whom is your quote. Am I now a fester?
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  7. Marie-Lou

    Marie-Lou Guest

    I am with you Joe 100% behind our Pope. I think people would do well to remember that Pope Francis has not instituted ANY changes in the teachings of the Catholic church. He is in direct line with Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict and people are either misinformed and/or deluded to argue otherwise.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2016
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  8. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

  9. Andy3

    Andy3 Powers

    The 3 days of darkness could be far off as some suggested but could also be part of the first parts of all this and really be the part right before chastisement. Chastisement would not be the end times end of Revelation. I feel that the 3 days of darkness would be right before the time in Revelation 20 where Satan is bound for 1000 years. This would be the cleansing of the world of the demons. We know there then comes a time when he would be loosed again for a short time after this period. Only God knows for sure but I could see the 3 days of darkness and chastisement all at once and those that emerge from this time would usher in this new era of peace for a long period of time before we have final judgement.
  10. Light

    Light Guest

    It goes without saying but you had to say it. And I have to say this again: the Pope cannot teach error in matters of faith and morals. That is Catholic teaching. Your concern has no basis in truth. Francis has been totally orthodox in his teaching and can only be faulted by faulty reading.


    What do you mean by "teaching"? I always thought that "ex cathedra" pronouncements only was Catholic teaching.

    God Bless
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  11. padraig

    padraig New Member

    One thing I notice about the 3 days of Darkess is that it is kind of a weapon of last resort. A kind of red button thing. The descriptions indicate that the overwhelming majority of the worlds population perish and only the devout remain. I think this is desribed in scripture as well as the, 'Day of the Lord' .

    Things are pretty bad now but I think the point at which God presses the red button will be pretty astonishing in its evil. People doing evil for evils pure sake. Thank GOd we are far off that yet.
  12. Andy3

    Andy3 Powers

    I think of the time after Warning and Miracle though. You pretty much are only on 2 sides after such event. You choose the Lord or not. Those who chose not will get pretty evil in a hurry to do away with those who chose the Lord. That is why I have felt the "conditional" chastisement. Conditional would be in the event that more chose the Lord and thus the world changed. I just don't see that happening and neither does the bible for that matter. Chastisement does indeed come. Most of Revelation tells us this. I could see where we would not be far off from that time after the Warning and Miracle. It could come quickly and furious and thus the need for chastisement.
  13. CrewDog

    CrewDog Guest

    Gang!! We can talk about Orthodox, Ex Cathedra, Catholic Doctrine and Catholic Teaching till we get Blue in de Face but... "These Days" ... it's past time for much less rarefied air academic BS and more Real World & What's Happenin Now!!! Wake-Up!! The USA/EU Political/Media godless (pro-Abort, pro-LGBT, pro-Socialist, pro-Unfettered Muslim Invasion & otherwise) is using Pope Francis and his words to promote THEIR AGENDA and confuse Catholic and other People of Faith .... PERIOD!! Like it or NO ... it be happenin' NOW!! You are a fool to pretend otherwise! Pope Francis is being used for nefarious reasons! I'd like to think he is just old, confused and getting bad advice from the "non-existent?" Vatican Gay/Marxist Lobby coupled with his Argentine upbringing and mindset? Soooooo.... personally .... I don't worry about it! I have no control over Rome .... but I do have control over my larder, other "supplies", some influence in my neighborhood and ..............................!!
    THE STORM ... cometh ..... when it does ....... !??!

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  14. padraig

    padraig New Member

    There is an apparition site called AOKPE in Nigeria, which as far as I know was givne the approval of the local Bishop who was actually from the village. Anyway the visionary is currently 35 years old and was ,apparently told by Our LAdy that she would see the three days darkness in her lifetime.



    'I bowed to her and I said. ‘Mother, your peace comes from Heaven. She replied, my peace truly comes from Heaven. I am the Immaculate Conception, I want to be known here as “the Mediatrix of all Graces. “

    I want all my children to continue attending Holy Mass. I am very happy with those who attend Holy Mass regularly…It gives the greatest Glory to God. Pray for peace in Nigeria, pray because of the problem that is coming,

    “ the three days darkness that is coming. “

    People are still committing sins. And new sins are being introduced into the world.”'


    those recite the rosary will never go to hell

    March 1, 1995

    In the message of March 1, 1995, the Blessed Virgin calls for the recitation of the Rosary, saying: "Those of my children who pray the Rosary frequently and commitment will receive many graces, That I know Satan will not be Able to approach them. My children, When You Are assailed by great temptations and problems and how to take your Rosary to me and your problems will be solved.

    “Every time you say "Hail Mary full of Grace" will receive many graces from me. “

    Those who will recite the Rosary will never be damned."

    Our Lady of Aopke in Nigeria

    those recite the rosary will never go to hell

    March 1, 1995

    In the message of March 1, 1995, the Blessed Virgin calls for the recitation of the Rosary, saying: "Those of my children who pray the Rosary frequently and commitment will receive many graces, That I know Satan will not be Able to approach them. My children, When You Are assailed by great temptations and problems and how to take your Rosary to me and your problems will be solved.

    “Every time you say "Hail Mary full of Grace" will receive many graces from me. “

    Those who will recite the Rosary will never be damned."

    Our Lady of Aopke in Nigeria
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  15. padraig

    padraig New Member

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  16. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I think this kind of time scale for the three days of darkness, given at Nigeria seems about right.
  17. Oooh, thank you Padraig for this introduction to this apparition. It is truly lovely and so simple. The local priest involved seems honest and good....and he is already so acquainted with many apparitions and with Fr. Gobbi and MMP. I went on to look at another video from there and thought this one was good too:

  18. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    The pope has not taught error in an official magisterial document. But to claim he has been "totally orthodox" is, unfortunately, akin to believing in fairy tales, and destroys the credibility of those making the claim, who might otherwise be good and holy Catholics. Unfortunately, it's no longer a case of unqualified laity who are simply guilty of "faulty reading."

    Three of the highly qualified theologians and priests who authored this document also contribute to the onepeterfive.com website. (One of the signatories is a personal friend of mine, so my statement is not one of personal opinion not backed up by facts, but is grounded in well established documentation that is part of a canonical process in Rome):


    Theological Censures Against Amoris Laetitia Revealed

    The apostolic exhortation Amoris laetitia, issued by Pope Francis on March 19th 2016 and addressed to bishops, priests, deacons, consecrated persons, Christian married couples, and all the lay faithful, has caused grief and confusion to many Catholics on account of its apparent disagreement with a number of teachings of the Catholic Church on faith and morals. This situation poses a grave danger to souls.”

    So begins the 13-page document sent by an international group of Catholic theologians, pastors, historians, and scholars “to every one of the Cardinals and Patriarchs, of whom there are 218 living at present.”

    Though the document was intended to be viewed only by its ecclesiastical recipients and not the general public, it has now been published in full on the website of The Australian by Tess Livingstone, who is also the biographer of Cardinal George Pell. (There is no indication in the story as to the source of the leaked document, but the professional connection between Livingstone and a prominent member of the curia is worth noting in this regard.)

    Dr. Joseph Shaw, one of the signatories and the group’s spokesman, previously revealed to Claire Chretien of LifeSiteNews the reasoning behind the originally-intended secrecy of the content of the appeal and its signatories, as well as the public revelation of the effort’s existence:

    “The appeal and cover letter are directed to the cardinals for action in the first place, and we have taken the view that the Sacred College should be allowed to consider the substance of the document and the action to be taken in response to it before its contents are made public,” he said. “The censures are a detailed and technical theological document whose contents are not readily accessible to a non-specialist audience, and are easily misrepresented or misunderstood. Making the document public would impede the cardinals in their task by the media coverage and frequently uninformed debate and polemics it would raise.”

    Shaw continued, “At the same time it is important that Catholics who are troubled by some of the statements in Amoris Laetitia be aware that steps are being taken to address the problems it raises; hence the announcement of the document’s existence.”


    (Download the full cover letter here. Download the full theological analysis with censures here. Both links are to PDF files.)

    On the authority of Amoris Laetitia, the critique notes the conflict between the perceived and actual authority the exhortation possesses, and the subsequent change in behavior it is likely to elicit on the part of the faithful:

    The official character of Amoris laetitia enables it to pose a grave danger to the faith and morals of Catholics. Although an apostolic exhortation pertains normally or principally to the purely pastoral governing power, nevertheless, on account of the inter-connection of the powers of teaching and of government, it also pertains indirectly to the magisterial power. It can also contain directly magisterial passages, which are then clearly indicated as being such. This was the case for previous apostolic exhortations such as Evangelii nuntiandi, Familiaris consortio, and Reconciliatio et paenitentia.

    There is no obstacle as such to the Pope’s using an apostolic exhortation to teach infallibly on faith and morals, but no infallible teaching is contained in Amoris laetitia, since none of its statements satisfy the strict requirements for an infallible definition. It is thus a non-infallible exercise of the papal magisterium.


    Read the rest at the link.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  19. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    I did roll my eyes, Joe, and was going to let it go until I read the part where you linked Pope Francis and the Church's yes being yes and no being no.

    Pope Francis didn't invent mercy or any other virtue. The spin doctors promoting the cult of the Pope Francis personality are very successful at marketing the Pope of Mercy label. Either his close associates are right and the Church has been wrong for 2000 years or they are wrong and the Church has been right. It appears that Pope Francis doesn't want to say either way. History will remember him as the Pope of Maybe. There's nothing holy about the spirit of obfuscation.

    I'll see you on the ship. Maybe between us we can wrest the odd chalice or ciborium from the cult followers as they jump overboard taking with them whatever they can of monetary value. The priceless treasure that is the Blessed Eucharist won't matter to them then.
  20. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

    If anyone needs reminded, "personnel is policy." What an insult to the late Saint Pope JPII:


    "...Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia has been chosen by Pope Francis to be the new head of the Pontifical Academy for Life, as well as of the Pontifical John Paul II Institute for Studies on Marriage and Family.

    "...Paglia is known to be a strong supporter of the “opening” of the Catholic Church’s moral teaching with regard to marriage and the family. Paglia himself had published between the two Family Synods a book promoting the idea to give out Holy Communion to the “remarried” divorcees. He is also on record for repeatedly promoting the homosexual cause, for example by praising the U.S. TV show “Modern Family.” Paglia was also responsible for inviting homosexual couples to last year’s World Meeting of Families."
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
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