I was talking to someone tonight and he ask me a question about the Eucharist, I would have normally knowing the answer to a question about the Eucharist but this question got me looking at him with a blank expression! He said do you know that the Catholics beleave that the eucharist is consubstantiation and when it touches the mouth of the person it changes to the body and blood of Christ? I answered yes The he said so why do they have a coeliac Eucharist for coeliacs if it turns into the body of Christ! I have to say that's a question I couldn't answer and one know and please try answering for yourself without Copy and pasting !
we believe as Catholics in Transsubstantiation...not consubstantiation.When te Priest consecrates the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus,its Jesus. Touching our mouth has nothing to do with bread and wine becoming Christ.
Cathecism ref for you... http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-te...techism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm 1413 By the consecration the transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ is brought about. Under the consecrated species of bread and wine Christ himself, living and glorious, is present in a true, real, and substantial manner: his Body and his Blood, with his soul and his divinity (cf. Council of Trent: DS 1640; 1651).
This is a question that the large majority of Catholics are sadly ignorant of due to the deplorable state of catechesis this past 50 years or so. Whilst it is not necessary for every catholic to be able to give a refined philosophical and theological explanation of the nature of the change fittingly called transubstantiation, we should at least ensure that we are sufficiently catechised so as to discern truth from falsehood concerning this Sacrament of Sacraments. The foolish theory of consubstantiation is a lutheran doctrine that states that the substance of the body and blood of Christ coexists with the substance of bread and wine. Now I don't want to make too many technical philosophical distinctions but it is necessary that we understand that the substance of a thing is simply that which makes the thing be the kind of thing that it is. This is not something that can be observed it is not 'physical', it CANNOT BE SUBJECT TO SCIENTIFIC EMPIRICAL INVESTIGATION (it can be understood not observed as such). Now the doctrine of transubstantiation in simple language is expressing that whatever made the bread be bread (its substance) no longer exists. A profound and indeed metaphysical change has taken place. What was once bread has been uprooted as it were from its creaturely anchorage, and by the miraculously action of God alone who calls all things into existence and holds them in being its nature is irrevocably changed. Now this next point is important: What in philosophical parlance are called the accidents, i.e. the observable physical properites such as the size and shape of the bread, its chemical composition, its colour, its weight, its extension etc DO NOT CHANGE. The substance is changed from within as it were which only adds to the miraculous nature of what takes place during the consecration. Ordinarily when things change it is by means of modifications to the accidents. For example at one moment I have a rubber ball say in front of me. I put a match to it and it begins to undergo observable physical changes, it begins to change colour, to melt, to become gooey etc. By means of these accidental changes what was once a round blue rubber ball has become a gooey mess on the floor. Accidents cannot exist apart from the substances in which they inhere. Accidents have what philosophers call a 'belonging be'. To sum up: Christ's miraculous presence is a sacramental one. Under the sacramental sign of bread (which in itself is no longer anything) Christ is present substantially body, blood, soul, and divinity. Note the Church does not say 'physically' but that His presence is real, true, and substantial. There is a subtle but important distinction between saying Christ is physically present and saying that He is present in his physical reality. In heaven Christ is present in his natural mode of existence. In the Blessed Sacrament He is present according to a sacramental mode of existence that truly is beyond the mind of man or angel to fathom. Remember that it is the ONE Christ who is present in all the tabernacles, in all the masses offered etc throughout the world. Remember also that to receive Christ under the sign of bread is to receive the whole Christ body, blood, soul, and divinity. WHILST RECEPTION UNDER TWO KINDS MORE FULLY EXPRESSES THE reality signified it is not necessary. Indeed, it was to confront the errors of the protestants that reception under one kind became normative. I hope this helps
I recommend you watch The Fourth Cup. It explains the jewish Passover and how Jesus fulfills Passover into the Mass we celebrate daily,the World over. its posted under sacraments on this forum.... You will have a New appreciation for the Mass! Enjoy : )
Eucharistic Miracles are one of the things I learned of 30 years ago that brought me streaming into the many other mystical occurrences within the Catholic Church. Others included the many Incorruptible bodies of saints within the Church still present from hundreds of years ago. Mystics such as Padre Pio who bi-located, bore the stigmata wounds of Christ for 50 years (while bleeding a cup of blood a day), was able to read the souls of those who he confessed (just to name a few of his mystical gifts). Now on to the most amazing gifts of God has been those who have lived for over 60 years on nothing but the Eucharist alone! That's right, no food or water....only the Eucharist. Too many to name, but your can start with Teresa Neumann, Alexandrina De Costa, Luisa Picceretta...... Now on your question on the Eucharist. As has already been discussed by others on this thread, one can put 'icing on the cake' of our most treasured gift, Thee Eucharist, Thee Christ, by the many Eucharistic miracles over the centuries, starting with the most famous and oldest one at Lanciano, Italy............ The Miracle of Lanciano dates back to the eighth century when a monk who had doubts about the Real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, found when he said the words of consecration at Mass, that the bread and wine changed into flesh and blood. It has been certified by the Catholic Church as a Eucharistic miracle. Today the miracle is in the Church of San Francesco in Piazza Plebiscito. According to ancient accounts, in the city of Lanciano, Italy, then known as Anxanum, around 700, a Basilian hieromonk was assigned to celebrate Mass at the monastery of St. Longinus. Celebrating in the Latin Rite and using unleavened bread, the monk had doubts about the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist. During the Mass, when he said the Words of Consecration ("This is my body. This is my blood"), with doubt in his soul, the priest is said to have seen the bread change into living flesh and the wine change into blood[1] which coagulated into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size (the number supposed to be correspondent to the number of wounds Christ suffered on the cross: one in each hand and foot from the nails, and the wound from the centurion's spear). People who believed they had witnessed the miracle soon spread the news throughout the surrounding area, and the archbishop ordered an investigation. Church authorities certified the miracle.[1] Since 1713 the Host-Flesh has been reserved in an artistic silver Ostensorium. Investigations Piazza Plebiscito, with the church of the miracle: San Francesco Sanctuary Since 1574, various investigations of varying degrees of detail have been conducted upon the elements: February 17, 1574 by Msgr. Antonio Gaspar Rodríguez, 1636 by Father Serafino from Scanno, October 23, 1777 by Bishop Gervasone, October 26, 1886 by Bishop Petrarca, 1971 and 1981, by Odoardo Linoli. Linoli's examination The examination[2] in 1971 was performed by Odoardo Linoli, a professor in anatomy and pathological histology as well as chemistry and clinical microscopy,and former head of the Laboratory of Pathological Anatomy at the Hospital of Arezzo.[3] He was assisted by Ruggero Bertelli, a retired professor of human anatomy at the University of Siena. The report was published in Quaderni Sclavo di Diagnostica Clinica e di Laboratori in 1971.[3][4] Linoli's released his findings in March 1971. His study confirmed that the flesh was human cardiac tissue, and the blood was type AB. In the blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of fresh normal blood. Linoli found no trace of preservatives. NOW THIS IS WHY WE ARE CATHOLIC.....WHO CAN COMPARE TO OUR GOD'S GREATEST GIFT OF EUCHARIST?
The miracle at lanciano is truly amazing; however sometimes it is not properly understood and causes further confusion for the faithful. What we are most definitely not saying is that we receive a piece of Christ (his heart say) when we receive the blessed Eucharist that would indeed be absurd and repugnant. We receive the whole Christ not a part of him. The unique thing about this miracle is that the flesh and blood themselves become the sacrament of Christ's substantial, real, and true presence
The Real presence of Christ in the Eucharist is the same stumbling block today as Jesus was for the Jews. those who see me see the Father, We are One (JN 10v30). Isn't he the son of Joseph the carpenter... v55 f.... In context St Matthew 13.... The institution of the Eucharist on Holy Thursday is when the devil entered Judas JN 13
This is the first time I heard about the special Eucharist for coeliacs, I guess is something the Church needs to comply with government regulations. If I had that disease I would not ask for a gluten free Eucharistic , it is the real presence of Jesus that's all I need to know. "I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. "
I can attest I have received the Low Gluten host. I received a reaction later on since I have a severe allergy to wheat. Im just witnessing to what I have dealt with. Even though I received great consolation receiving. It comes right back up . My reaction is that my stomach thinks its poison and I receive a migraine and throw up. Its a cross that many have to deal with but receiving the precious blood is still receiving Our Lord Jesus Christ. Long and drawn out but felt compelled to write that out.
Guys if you read my two posts up above hopefully it will clear up your confusion regarding the presence of Christ in the Eucharist. If the bread were dipped in poison before consecration believe me you would die if you ate it. The Church does not teach that the"bread" in its physical nature, chemical composition is changed. Please read posts above.
Sorry to see that you have Gluten allergy, Claves.Sancti.Petri. God knows your cross and will love you even more trying to bear witness to Him. God Bless you! Indeed the Holy Eucharist is this manna of divine love which can feed and bolster a soul - because it injects more light in i.e. love and hope in reconciliation with God. Thus the soul grows stronger and fonder, hence it is more difficult for sin to dull. The Holy Eucharist is the sacrifice on the cross; His flesh; His blood; His life; in remembrance; in communion; sill beating with His love for ours; still very much alive and waiting to give Himself to us fully in the most extraordinary way that only God can – His life - that we may also have life; for is God not all life. 'So does the Eucharist actually turn into His flesh and blood' yes, as a symbolism of His sacrifice to us where needed (miracles) for example, but it is in the spiritual form; through our love and trust that we receive Him and benefit the most. He feeds His children with love. God Bless!
I too have a problem with gluten that developed in the past 2 years. I have a form of vasculitis that is one that gives my body hives. I can tolerate moderate amounts of gluten, but if I eat too much, I will react with constant hives and swelling that may take a week or more to go away. I still take both the body and blood though and sometimes, feel I would rather suffer the pain forever and offer it up like many a great saints did for others, than to go without and not suffer the pain. Pain is ok though. God made it for many reasons. We must use it when we get it. It is a gift and grace that can only bring one closer to God.
I have a friend who constantly brings up this issue of ,why gluten free if it really is the body and blood of Jesus. This discussion is most helpful with so many well informed people contributing. Thanks to all
I really had no idea that so many of you suffered from a Gluten allergy.. it must be difficult at times for you... ah, God bless you all.. I'm so humbled now.
