Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by Franciscan, May 5, 2020.
Book Lady thankyou. This is eloquent and timely, helpful and true. Well said.
It might be helpful to remind ourselves we are all on the same team here--Our Lady's team.
But with respect, Booklady, this is the job for the Bishop and the Church hierarchy, not the laity on a forum. The local Bishop has jurisdiction.
Edited: this was established by the Council
Unquestionably, it is the responsibility of the Church to inform the laity whether private revelation comes from God or not. The process can be found here, under Norms regarding the manner of proceeding in the discernment of presumed apparitions or revelations.
I hope I did not say otherwise, it was not my intent in any way. That's the problem with language, it's always so imprecise.
There is a great difference between what the local Ordinary and the Church establish as to the veracity of private revelation for the purpose of approving or condemning someone's private revelation; and, if it gets to that level, mere, lower case, academic research, the type that the laity is allowed to do, and frequently do as, for example, when they write dissertations, monographs and articles, and even forum entries about a visionary's private revelation.
Everyone knows that this type of research lacks the authority of the Church, but is useful only for personal discernment.
Hope this helps.
I recently purchased a book by Kevin Symonds, titled, Refractions of Light, which deals with this subject of private revelation and the Church. It is now sitting beneath 11 other books that I have recently purchased and must read before I die.
Here is a short precis from Amazon:
"For the past several decades, there has been a notable rise in claims of apparitions, visions and messages from heaven. This growth has often led to confusion and sensationalism among the Catholic faithful. Refractions of Light: 201 Answers on Apparitions, Visions and the Catholic Church seeks to address this situation using an easy-to-read Q&A format designed for a broad audience. It does not shy away from controversial topics, reaching into the relevant Church documents, which it includes in its appendices, to address them. Kevin Symonds' book is a must-read for anyone seeking to understand how we come to know when heaven is reaching out to us."
Nota Bene: for the purpose of full disclosure, I do not know Kevin Symonds, or have any connection to his publisher.
Here is a video from EWTN, and Father Mitch Pacwa, and Mr. Kevin Symonds regarding private revelation.
His interview is around 7:34. Excellent interview.
Thanks Byron, I really needed a good laugh tonight.
Heavenly Hosts is correct Christy.
Taken from the writings of the above prophet, November 5, 1923
I was feeling oppressed because of the privation of my sweet Jesus, with the addition that the confessor - because I had not had the trust to open up with him, and because I was bad and he had denied me absolution.........
Jesus told me: “My daughter, this mirror is the accidents of the bread which keep Me imprisoned within them. I form my Life in the host, but the host does not give Me anything - not one affection, not a heartbeat, not the littlest ‘I love you.’It is as though dead for Me.........
Vol. 24, July 7, 1928:
Jesus, sighing.. “My daughter, indeed my Divine Will reigned in this house of Nazareth on earth as It does in Heaven. My Celestial Mama and I knew no other will, but Saint Joseph lived in the reflections of Our Will..........
I have called you the first, since to no other soul, though dear to Me, have I manifested the way of living in my Will,
The 'servant of God' Luisa Picarreta was a wonderful Catholic and was a victim-soul who is worthy of our deepest respect. Her cause is under consideration for canonization (since 1994). Her writings have caused controversy because of various interepretations. Please God Holy Mother Church in her wisdom will be able to sort this problem out and give a correct translation/interpretation of her true teachings. These things of course take time. There are many fruits that flow from Luisa's life -- prayer groups and so forth -- how could there not be fruits from a life lived in such a holy manner? She was faithful and obedient to Holy, Mother Church as we too should be.
Her writings contain nothing contrary to Catholic faith or morals.
-- Archbishop Giovan Battista Pichierri wrote the following in 2012 --
What do you ask anyone who knows Luisa Piccarreta
1. Pray for the Beatification of the Servant of God, so that the Kingdom of the Divine Will spreads.
2. To send to the Postulation, through the Secretariat, testimonies and everything else concerning the Servant of God, together with economic resources useful today more than ever for the work typical of Luisa's writings.
3. Create a network of connections between the various groups united with their Bishop and our Archdiocese to make the great family of the Divine Will more and more visible, constituted in the bond of unity, ecclesial communion, the commitment of the new evangelization for the tradition of faith.
With great friendship and sympathy, I greet and bless.
Trani, 1st November 2012
I am assuming you are using these quotes to make a point.
Perhaps, you mistakingly think Luisa Piccareta's writings are heretical?
The current English translations of Lusia Piceretta writings are heretical according to many including Fr Hardon and Archbishop Pichierri of Trani.
Below is the Full letter of Archbishop Pichierri the Bishop of Trani, you quoted only part of the letter of the 1st November 2012. Please read the full letter below and in particular 'the current state of the cause' number 4, 5, 6 and 7.
What we see is that the Bishop of Trani has stated that every publication of the translations of the writings, "is absolutely forbidden to be published" and those that act against this are causing great harm to the process of the servant of God.
Number 7 of his above letter.
This letter remains the observance of the Catholic Faithful! as this directive has not been superseded by any higher authority since this date!
Josephite, I do not know much of Luisa, beyond her name. But, it is clear, problems come up when lay people/enthusiasts "push" messages of a visionary, on their own, without guidance of the Church. The bishop's advice to "pray" to advance her cause, not spread faulty translations/interpretations, makes sense!
I am not pushing her messages as I have not read them. I could read them if I wanted to - the Church doesn't forbid reading her works from approved publications.
You have quoted people who state that there are heresies but from wrong translations!!
Her writings are under investigation by the Church - the final arbitor of these things.
The Bishop in Number 4 says that neither the Holy See nor himself personally has found any doctrinal errors in her works!!
How can there be heresy when there are no doctrinal errors?
In addition the Archbishop says that those who say there are doctrinal errors are causing scandal!!
This is true - we wait for the Church to decide.
We are free to read her works from approved sources for private meditation and prayer. Also the Archbishop praises all of the Divine Will Groups who link up with their Bishops so there is a public aspect to this devotion too.
But one cannot say there are heresies and doctrinal errors in her message until the Church has made a final judgement.
She is on the path to sainthood -- you can read more about her interesting life here:
Of course as lay Catholics we can't be sure about the final outcome, of Lusia cause, but as you say those that push, clearly unapproved messages of a seer, do infact hinder her cause.
If we ponder the current translations we can see that they go against Catholic tradition!
Take for example the alleged words of Jesus where he states that the Blessed Eucharist is dead to Him.
My daughter, this mirror is the accidents of bread which keep me imprisoned in them. I form my life in the Host, but this gives me Nothing: not an affection, not a palpitation, not the smallest 'I love you.' It is, as it were, dead for Me.
My daughter, do I perhaps not live in the Sacramental Hosts, Living and True, in Soul, Body, Blood and Divinity?
When you juxtapose this above statement, to the truth that Jesus spoke in scripture about His Body and blood, reiterating that all must receive Him to enter the Kingdom of God; additionally if you juxtapose it to the Holy Catholic Catechism teachings of the Blessed Eucharist or to Catholic church Dogma, one sees that Our Lords true presence in the Blessed Eucharist is paramount, Holy and of Heaven!.
Even If you juxtaposed the above statement of lusia to Catholic church approved apparitions at Fatima and Akita, which speak of Our Lord being truly present in the Holy Sacrament of the altar we see distinct separation by Lusia from true Catholic teaching,!
This may be due to erroneous translations; so we must wait until we have the approved translations as Archbishop Pichierri the Bishop of Trani has exhorted us to do in his letter above.
Lets consider the beautiful words of St Michael the Archangel to the children of Fatima in 1916.
With the Blessed Sacrament suspended in the air, the Angel of Peace, St Michael the Archangel, prostrated himself with the children and recited this prayer during this third apparition to the children in 1916.
O Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
I adore Thee profoundly.
I offer Thee
the most precious
Body, Blood, Soul
of Jesus Christ,
present in all the
tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the
outrages, sacrileges and indifferences
by which He is offended.
By the infinite merits
of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the
Immaculate Heart of Mary, I beg the conversion
of poor sinners.
Prayer of St Michael to the three little seers of Fatima.
Actually, I hope
You spoke truth, Josephite.
I shudder to think of how many professed Catholics will be willing to disregard and profane the blessed Eucharist in the near future! due to the lax teachings of the church, backed by unapproved writings of prophets who give nil importance to the Blessed Sacrament.
Lord have Mercy. Amen
We will suffer the consequences of our undue curiosity.
Separate names with a comma.