How the mighty might fall. I do pray nearly daily for my country now. I remember in Padraig's icons, he mentioned leaders really, really yelling at each other. Well, each side has walked out on the other on 2 occasions now. I'd imagine inside the room it's extremely, extremely tense and I sense that there is a good amount of dislike on both sides for the other. That's just my sense. But this is the first serious internal conflict I've noticed since the icons thread was started. The stakes could not be higher for the US and world. Let's pray for some sort of deal to take place where both parties can save face.
When I heard of this PS I thought of the incident in Exodus when the ten plagues fell on Egypt it says that Pharoahs heart was 'hardened' . I don't think its normal or natural that political leaders can't find a meeting point for their hearts have been hardened as Pharoahs was. Exodus 9:34-10:2: When Pharaoh saw that the rain and hail and thunder had stopped, he sinned again: He and his officials hardened their hearts. So Pharaoh's heart was hard and he would not let the Israelites go, just as the LORD had said through Moses. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the LORD."
The wierd thing is- Obama has the power to raise the debt ceiling even if they don't get an agreement at these talks, so it's all on him in the end. If he decides he wants to sell us out to the Bilderberg Group and create a crisis, he can do it. I really want our country to live with in it's means. I'm ok with slowing down our growth to hunker down and pay off some debt and get everything undercontrol. but I don't have anything to lose, and I don't have any power so I doubt they will listen to me. I really believe we just need to look to the bible for advice- be not a borrower, and give your money away when others are in need and God will give it all back to you and more. So sad- he isn't a Christian so he wont get that. Pray, pray, pray, August 2nd is the day (sorry, couldn't help myself) Kath
garabandal, For the first time tonight, I believe the chance of default is actually possible. Where are the statesmen willing to put power politics aside and act for the good of the nation. The following portion of a July 22 article highlights the trgic condition of the US economy. Things are worse than they seem! Pay close attention to the negligible role consumer spending has played in this 2-yr. recovery- oops! I meam 2-yr. phony recovery: A Boom in Corporate Profits; a Bust in Jobs, Wages Paul Wiseman, AP Economics Writer, On Friday July 22, 2011, 6:36 pm EDT WASHINGTON (AP) -- Strong second-quarter earnings from McDonald's, General Electric and Caterpillar on Friday are just the latest proof that booming profits have allowed Corporate America to leave the Great Recession far behind. But millions of ordinary Americans are stranded in a labor market that looks like it's still in recession. Unemployment is stuck at 9.2 percent, two years into what economists call a recovery. Job growth has been slow and wages stagnant. "I've never seen labor markets this weak in 35 years of research," says Andrew Sum, director of the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University. Wages and salaries accounted for just 1 percent of economic growth in the first 18 months after economists declared that the recession had ended in June 2009, according to Sum and other Northeastern researchers. In the same period after the 2001 recession, wages and salaries accounted for 15 percent. They were 50 percent after the 1991-92 recession and 25 percent after the 1981-82 recession. Corporate profits, by contrast, accounted for an unprecedented 88 percent of economic growth during those first 18 months. That's compared with 53 percent after the 2001 recession, nothing after the 1991-92 recession and 28 percent after the 1981-82 recession I think the closing months of 2011 will be financially disasterous for the US economy! Lord have mercy! Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
The scary thing too is that the US isn't alone in these types of discussions and dilemmas right now. PAdraig's vision of many leaders arguing is happening for sure...right now within their own countries' meeting rooms, but tomorrow they will be agruing with/at each other as well, if they aren't already by phone and video conferencing. President Obama went to a Christian church all of his life, and he and his family go to a Christian church now...he knows the teachings (sorry, I couldn't let that one alone) but still, to put into play the Bible's teachings to give what you have and it will be returned to you is hard for everyone, especially for governments, though they do try to help when needed and I think our country has been very proactive in doing that over the years and even in recent times, in fact, it is one of the things being ridiculed now by some, that we "give" too much to others when our debt is too high. I think that asking the rich to give more is doing that too, we need someone in this country who has it - to give it. But parting with your riches is a tough thing to do, and nobody wants to do it, especially in all these world's societies where God's laws are being "removed" from the table by so many. AND - as Jesus pointed out, even the poor need to help their countries, like the woman in the temple, who gave her small offering which was more than the offerings of the rich who gave more. I am unemployed, but I still do what I can, I still put something in the basket on Sunday, and if I have to pay more taxes to live in this country, I will find a way to do it. But as we all know we are in a time when all this is going to bottom out no matter what we do. So then, what do we do? In those boardrooms in all the countries now, this conversation is happening, and nobody knows what to do. Because nothing is going to solve the problem, and deep down, everybody knows that.
I know little enough about the American President. But he strikes me as a very,very controlled intellectual kind of person, not one who would easily give way to displays of anger or outspokedness. He would have made, i nanother life a superb diplomat or scholar. But in his announcement over the difficultues he has had over the negotiations with Reppublicans two things were interesting; the level of anger he was showing and also for the very first time an admission , implicit in his statement that the USa might default on their debt repayments. ] At the very same time in Europe Chancellor Merkel of Germany betrays anxiety and frustration over continued German efforts to keep the Euro afloat. No one, no one at all knows what will happen if the USA defaults on her debts. No one, no one at all knows what will happen if the Euro folds. But we can guess that if the USA defaults and the Euro folds at around about the same time the results will be horrific and unimaginable. At this present stage it looks not only possible but probable that this will occur.... St Paul writes that the : 1 Corinthians 2:15 >> The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment: It seems to me that President Obama and the Reublican and Democratic leadership in the USA and Chancellor Merkel and others in Europe are acting in a strange way here. There is huge anger and frustration and blaim giving. It seems to me, spiritually something huge is going on here in terms of grace. Everyone should know that there must ,even i ntheir own and their Nations interests be a sensible negotiated settlement. But this is not happening. The indications to me is that GOd's intervening hand of inflowing grace is being removed from the equation and we are shifting from the time of grace to the time of Justice on the economic front..as indeed we are doing on all fronts, the weather, earthquakes etc...
Padraig wrote It seems to me that President Obama and the Reublican and Democratic leadership in the USA and Chancellor Merkel and others in Europe are acting in a strange way here. There is huge anger and frustration and blame giving.
Like sharks that smell blood in the water. Get ready for economic meltdown within the next few years. Get ready spiritually, convert and trust in God for the economic tribulation is about to begin - and the consequences of economic meltdown are severe - societal upheaval, war etc. But we who trust in the Lord know that from 1981 we have been told to convert, get ready for these end of times by our Lady --- what we live now will seem like a dream in a few decades -- the pillars are collapsing -- and the collapse will be total -- That is why folks you have been tested - that is why we have had to endure the toughest of times personally - God is getting his you ready --- and those who are ready will survive for they know that God works through all things to perfect the children of God. What good is it if a man were to gain the whole world yet lose his soul? Our priorities must be spiritual - we must become saints and soon!!
I love Padre Pio's words Bobby; 'Pray and trust!' I find it errie..when I try to broach this subject with people at work they either ignore me or act like spooked horses. Its just too much for them,I guess.
Yes, Padraig - like the blind that cannot see. But I think the world leaders of the West can see & know that economic armageddon is on its way. At Mass this morning praying about all of these things I got a powerful sense that the USA is going to default on is debt in order to try to survive, a selfish act of course, but one that will have enormous repercussions for the World and especially Europe. Interesting too that the $dollar & the Euro are in real trouble at the same time - and if we but open our eyes we can see a very steep decline already & we are in a Great Depression not a recession - the western governments 'bail-outs' only buy a little extra time but it is like putting a plaster on a huge wound - the whole lot is going to burst suddenly like a bubble. Watch the price of Gold - already at a record £1600 an ounce and Gold £2000 is not far away - by that time the governments will take control of gold & all gold reserves as they are control freaks. Who would have believed things could happen so suddenly - as I was driving yesterday I could not believe the number of pot-holes on our roads and the grass and trees on the verges of our roads are so overgrown as the councils cannot afford to cut them. Simple things like that speaks volumes. And when God withdraws his hand of grace all will crash. The prophecies that talk of Europe being invaded by powerful Muslim armies do not seem so fanciful anymore. We are actually living through and watching the demise and collapse of western civilization before our very eyes but people are asleep or refuse to see the truth. The pillars are crumbling, the foundations have been undermined - it is like a fighter 'punch drunk' and surviving on instinct and one hard shot will send all crashing to the canvas. I wonder if that one hard right hook might be the USA deciding to default on its debts?
Well, we have the Arab protests still gaining momentum, with threats to Europe. A collapse of the US debt system or the Euro would spur the Muslim extremists to attacking Europe even further, since they could see how internally weak it is.
If Obama chooses to default on our debt than I am convinced that he is truly a Muslim bent on our destruction, because that would be the dumbest thing he could ever do and he has the power to raise the debt ceiling without congressional approval and he can cut the budget as well. If he does this it is on his head and his head alone and he has made a choice to pull this country down. We don't have to default on our debt- there are tons of ways to cut our budget if we choose to do it- stop giving money to Planned Parenthood, research on all sorts of things, programs that support innovation, etc. etc. We have no reason to continue to spend money on stuff if we are gonna trash our country anyway. Its a lose lose prospect to default. I am not saying he wont do it- since I've become more and more convinced he isn't Christian and is truly a minion of Stan. Pray for Obama's soul. I think he is selling it. Honestly I think they are just playing politics and trying to get each other to back down, but if he defaults- its probably because that was the plan all along on his end. I do believe that God has withdrawn his Grace from us. Our country has truly betrayed God's love. I wish I could change it and I Pray He remembers the little poeple caught up in the big picture- I'm pretty certain he will. I am sorry to the rest of the world if we default. I can tell you that the citizens of the country are not choosing this. We are all fearful and enraged at the idea and if it appears to be selfishness, I want everyone to know that it isn't the general public, it's Obama. It's just not necessary to default. The president along can raise the debt ceiling without a deal. I just don't want you all to think we are all a bunch of jerks. Our country has been hijacked by a muslim/communist (gee- what a combination!). Don't fall for the going to church thing- he isn't really going regularly and makes a show of it when he does. he was raised in Indonesia and went to a muslim school. He joined communists and socialist parties in college and hangs out with fringe groups and hires them as his aids. Pray we raise the dept ceiling and cut the budget like good economists. OK, no more politics from me. Going to church to pray now, Kath
I don't want to get too political, but I wanted to respond to a few posts on here. First with the debt ceiling, I thought all along that a deal would get done. It is only in the past few days that I think that default could be a real reality. I still think a deal could get done, but I'm not that confident anymore. I guess I better start preparing mentally and spiritually for this reality. In terms of raising taxes on the wealthy (a key sticking point to compramise), I don't agree that should be done. Once the government is given more money, they will spend it on very questionable things...planned parenthood, contraversial and unnecessary studies, etc. If I were a rich person and wanted to help the poor, I'd give my money to a charity I believed in, not the government...who will waste it. It's not the rich people's fault we are in this problem, and it's more the government's mis-use of tax dollars. You give them more, they will waste more. I think whatever happens will be purely for political interests. For instance, if Obama thinks the republicans will get blamed if the debt ceiling is not raised and therefore he will score points for his re-election, then that is what will happen. Unfortunately, I think this is the way all politicians think. I don't think Obama has been a christian all his life, in fact I'm pretty sure he hasn't. Although I don't think he is muslim either. But he did live in Jakarta for a while in the middle east, and attended Jakarta government run schools (3rd & 4th grade I believe). During this time of his life, his name was Barry Soetoro. I believe it was college he changed his name back to Barack Obama. Who knows what he was taught in the middle eastern government run schools at a young age. And as for his adult christian church, his pastor was Jeremiah Wright. If you are interested enough, you can google him to see parts of his sermons. Suffice to say though, they are not very christian in my book. Just knowing Obama attended this church for 20 years or so was enough for me not to vote for him, as it is alarming what was preached. On some level he must have agreed to what was preached, or he would not have attended. Let's pray for some real leadership now...espcially since our good Lord's hand of intervention does seem to have been lifted throughout the world...and we will be left to our own devices...a scary thought indeed!
I had thought of this before, as to why I'm having such a tough time now. I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks this way. I think Padraig, it is just beyond the average person's comprehension. We've been thinking about this and discussing this for so long now I think most on this site have mentally come to grips with the need for the rough road ahead. Once the blinders are off and you can see God's hand in things...or the other hand in things...the reality of what we will soon face becomes easier to comprehend and accept. Once you really understand things, you accept it with hope.
Ah, finally a post I can agree with, Potatosack! Padraig, I liked your observation about Obama, though I doubt the others did. I don't blame him for everything. He is very smart, and very diplomatic, and very personable...I think that is why he scares some people. He is more articulate than most politicians out there. However, our democracy forbids one man from being able to have the kind of power that people seem to think he has. No president can make decisions like these all alone, that is why they are having these meetings and arguements, otherwise, why bother? Also, I do not want to debate whether he is a Christian or not, or whether he listened to a raving lunatic minister for several years, as it doesn't really matter anymore anyway. We are way past all that now. He is where he is, and he is losing sleep over all these things just like we are. He doesn't appear to be a very religious man in any direction...ok, so...my goodness, it would not be the first time that has happened in this country. It makes it rough for moral issues that he is on the fence about many of them, but so are a huge number of other Americans, it is not all his fault. I was agnostic for a while because I married one, does that mean I have a hidden agenda now against my Catholic faith and it soils my values today? Maybe so, only God knows, I guess......and maybe he actually is out to destroy the country he loves and that his children live in because he spent some time in another country as a boy. :roll: The muslim-a-phobic attitude of our country is really making me crazy. Ok, that's it, I am done with that discussion. I agree that he and all the others will do what they feel is politically gainful for them, and that is why they will never agree on a solution. Besides, there isn't a solution if you believe we are in the times we are in according to the visionaries and the preophecies. The future has already been foretold. Nothing they decide in there is going to change it, right? So what are we all upset about? Don't we have to accept the times we are entering into and find a peaceful way to survive them and help others around us to survive them? Isn't prayer, fasting, and conversion the only ways to avert or lesson it? And the warning will not come until AFTER the crumbling has officially begun. I think they will not raise the debt ceiling because too many people in that room don't want it, and Obama is going to do what his advisors "advise" him to do. It is not all up to him alone, nothing like this is ever up to only one man in this country. Why do people keep saying that it is? I too wanted to comment on Padraig's post from the other thread...people are like ostriches with their heads in the sand. They refuse to believe that life as they know it will not continue. Imagine how you and I would feel right now, watching the natural disasters going on and hearing that both the dollar and the euro are about to collapse, and countries are going broke one by one, and the disasters keep happening, costing all these countries even more money, and we would have no one to turn to for strength and guidance and wisdom, because there is no God and we are just dirt with a temporary electric charge that has created a machine-like intelligence in an organic medium, and nothing more. What would we be then without our money and our toys and our air-conditioned houses and malls and bistros? (sorry, Kathleen, no correlation intended there with the air conditioning comment!) Mary and Jesus have given us a roadmap of what to expect, and tools for what to do about it. Without those things, we would all have our heads in the sand. I just reel when I think about how the warning will be received in this world as it is today. Without roots the trees will topple in droves. So many people have no roots that go any deeper than their bank accounts and X-Boxes. I think that instead of wasting time here worrying about who is going to deal the final blow, we should instead be discussing how to help the world grow some real roots. Getting all upset about the politicians fulfilling the prophecies is being self-centered, it is us having a cow about losing our own riches and our comfortable lives, our money, our securities which we know are not real anyway. Oh, I too am sick about it, I am freaking out about not having a job and possibly losing the little bit of money I still have invested in mutual funds and stocks, but I am trying VERY HARD to not lose myself in all that, and to figure out how to go on without it. Because it is happening, and no amount of worrying or pointing fingers at presidents is going to change that. It is time to live day by day, trust in God, and try to move toward a new way of living. Life as we know it is about to evolve. I for one do not want to be left laying in the mud puddle, crying and bickering about who did it. Mankind did it over hundreds of years, and God told us it would happen over 2000 years ago. Obama and others are trying to prevent the inevitable, and they can't. Whatever decision they make will be wrong in the world's eyes, because the collapse will happen anyway. Oh, how sad to be those leaders right now, or their children and families, with the world all laying blame on them for something they really have no power to fix or change. Humanity has been sick for a long time, its not just them or this generation alone. When is the world going to realize that? When are WE, the ones who know it is the end of an era, going to accept that, stop fretting, listen to God, and evolve?
An interesting post Connie. I think you know most people do not think too deeply about things. The task of bringing up a family, holding down a job and paying off a mortgage is job enough. The most is they do not want the boat rocked and many look forward to the day when they reitre to , 'do things'. In Europe this process has become a Godless one. People have been doing well enough ,materially to get along without the notion of God and those who do place God in a once a week corner. I think once faced with notions of economic collapse and a profoundly changing physical world (earth quakes, storms, extreme weather , new diseases) they figure they will just have to grin and bear it. I think that is one of the great blessings of Faith, that it forces us to think , it changes everything, not only in the way we think but in the way we act. We become different. Different in so many ways. I always remeber my Spiritual DIrector advising me one time that if I wanted to know what is going on in the world I should stop watching the TV and reading newspapers for six months and just think about things myself and pray over them . Thats so true. I threw the TV in the bin I suppose about 8 years ago and I forget how long it is since I read a newspaper.....the internet I use mostly to write on this forum. I think, esentially the big lie as far as politics is concerned is that things and people are getting better; are 'progressing '..and that with a benign caring Government things are going to get better and better. But they are not. Take God out of the equation and everything will, as it currenty is ; fall to pieces. I think that this is the great blessing of what is happening in the world ; IT WILL FORCE PEOPLE TO THINK ..and IT WILL FORCE PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT GOD AND THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. I heard a reading the other day in Church from King Soloman in which he is offered any gift he wants from God, riches , power ..wahtever. But Soloman chooses Wisdom!! ..and what is Wisdom? The garce to refer all things to GOd. How many of our leaders would choose Wisdom? 1 Kings 2 David’s Charge to Solomon 1 When the time drew near for David to die, he gave a charge to Solomon his son. 2 “I am about to go the way of all the earth,” he said. “So be strong, act like a man, 3 and observe what the LORD your God requires: Walk in obedience to him, and keep his decrees and commands, his laws and regulations, as written in the Law of Moses. Do this so that you may prosper in all you do and wherever you go 4 and that the LORD may keep his promise to me: ‘If your descendants watch how they live, and if they walk faithfully before me with all their heart and soul, you will never fail to have a successor on the throne of Israel.’ 1 Kings 3:5-12 New International Version (NIV) 5 At Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon during the night in a dream, and God said, “Ask for whatever you want me to give you.” 6 Solomon answered, “You have shown great kindness to your servant, my father David, because he was faithful to you and righteous and upright in heart. You have continued this great kindness to him and have given him a son to sit on his throne this very day. 7 “Now, LORD my God, you have made your servant king in place of my father David. But I am only a little child and do not know how to carry out my duties. 8 Your servant is here among the people you have chosen, a great people, too numerous to count or number. 9 So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. For who is able to govern this great people of yours?” 10 The Lord was pleased that Solomon had asked for this. 11 So God said to him, “Since you have asked for this and not for long life or wealth for yourself, nor have asked for the death of your enemies but for discernment in administering justice, 12 I will do what you have asked. I will give you a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like you, nor will there ever be.
Exactly, Padraig, and that is why you wrote what you did. I have not gotten a newspaper for years either. I do have a TV, but when my hubby falls asleep I change the channel to EWTN or something else, or turn it off altogether, or find a good movie. He likes to listen to the news shows and some of the stupid reality stuff on there, but if I had it my way I would not watch any of that stuff. (though I do like the sitcom Big Bang Theory! LOL) I did watch Joel Olsteen tonight, it was Masstime on EWTN and I flipped to the other religous channels...it was a really good one on showing honor to others, especially your parents and authority figures (like presidents...). Sometimes I like watching his sermons. I like old Billy Graham shows too. "I think you know most people do not think too deeply about things. The task of bringing up a family, holding down a job and paying off a mortgage is job enough. The most is they do not want the boat rocked and many look forward to the day when they reitre to , 'do things'." I know, and we all resist change. I wish things were as they were 4 years ago for me too. I wish I had a big pension coming for retirement. But sometimes I think, I think "too deeply" about things...I wish I wouldn't dig down so deep and analyze things 5 different ways or feel the need to research this or that until I'm burned out on it or feel like crying for the children of our leaders. And now this Franicisan stuff has me trying to find peace and joy in everything, good or bad things... I probably shouldn't have posted what I did, but sometimes I just get so exasporated at all the ridiculousness going on. I just want to shout sometimes to the world, "If men would have listened to Mary years ago, maybe we wouldn't be here right now. Perhaps even if we would have listened earlier in the 20th century. But we didn't and we are now where we are, and now everyone is trying to find someone to blame, when the blame is on all of us, and our past decisions." The answers aren't in the boardroom, they are in the Bible. We have hit the time of change. So let's get to it already and stop being so paranoid and angry at everyone else. If the world listened to God they would not have to be so afraid, would they? I love number 10 on the list that Lee posted the other day, "WORRYING does not take away tomorrow's TROUBLES; it takes away today’s PEACE." Somehow, we need to find the Joy inside of us through these tribulations we are in and those which are still to come. We need to keep peace in our hearts and eminate joy to the world. Don't ask me how, I haven't figured that out yet...but I am trying. I hope to figure it out one of these days. But I know that all this political finger pointing is NOT the way to do it. Wisdom...I also mentioned wisdom in that crazy post above. Today our priest gave a GREAT homily on the reading you mentioned. And he said something I think you will like, "When was the last time you received wisdom by watching TV?" He talked about that for a little while, and good for him! Of course there is EWTN and some other worthwhile broadcasts. Currently I am enjoying a series on Science and religion called "Heavens Proclaim the Glory of God" on EWTN. Pretty cool series discussing the origins of the universe and so on. I also think it is a blessing that we have reached this time, because for many years now we could see it was inevitable. I really pray for it to commence so we can move on to the next era, and also so God will deliver the warning to all of us, as it will usher in that new era. Without the warning, people will go on screaming at each other and the Godless societies will continue to grow. We need God to appear, to remind human beings that they are NOT just dirt and electircity...that he has our blueprints - we are created in his image, and for a purpose other than our own selfish ones. I know it will be hard, and I know that persecutions are to come, but in so many ways it will be a very exciting time, if we can just keep our hopes up and not lose the joy in our hearts that God has put there.
Matthew 13;16 comes to mind But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. We live in intresting times and it is true many saints would love to have been able to give witness to Christ in these times so no matter what happens know you were chosen by God for this age. Just keep trusting through all the difficulties. God will never fail those who rely totally on Him. We have to get the minset of clinging to the cross and not letting go. Keep praying and trusting. God bless Mary
This latest message from Pelianito hits the nail on the head; John 15:18 If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first. “My children, count it an honor when you are persecuted for my sake. Know that when this happens you are wearing the seamless robe lovingly woven for me by my Mother. Look at this robe. Admire its perfection. Even the soldiers at the foot of the cross recognized the singular quality of this garment. A garment of this quality is not given to everyone, but everyone has a garment prepared by my Mother. It is the seamless garment of persecution that is most valuable. With this garment, my faithful ones enter the heavenly treasury, not as subjects, but as heirs. Then do not shun this great gift when it is offered to you. See it as our Mother’s gift to a favored child. Thank your Mother lovingly for having chosen you–of all her children–to wear it. Little ones, nothing is as it seems. Exaltation comes through humiliation, and victory comes by way of defeat. Rejoice always! My grace is sufficient for you.” Jesus we trust in you. May those of us chosen to receive the seamless garment of persecution for your name’s sake, always remember the infinite value and honor of this gift so lovingly prepared by our Mother. Jesus, Mary, Joseph, we love you. Save souls! AMEN We are now in the time of trial and offer up everything. If God is with us who can be against us? Mary
